Xie Xun: The Actual Ultimate Fighter in HSDS?

[Shulato]

Most of the time, when discussing HSDS, a lot of people only considered Zhang WuJi and Zhang SanFeng as the notable fighters.

We might have overlooked Xie Xun, the Golden Mane Lion King.
Xie Xun's appearance at the beginning actually left a lot to be pondered. He performed several feats that suggest he's actually a very good fighter.
His senses were highly tuned as a fighter plus he's quite ruthless and cunning (due to his desire for revenge).

The drawback perhaps was because he kept being defeated by his si fu, Cheng Kun, who of course taught him all his martial arts and thus knew them better than Xie Xun. But this doesn't mean that Xie Xun was less as a fighter than Cheng Kun. And by saying so, I'm not rating Xie Xun as a fighter of Xiao Feng level who could beat the crap out of anyone even with higher level of skills than him. I'm just curious to know how Xie Xun is actually compared against the other fighter in his era, such as Mie Jie Shie Tai, the Wu Dang heroes, etc etc.

Yang DingTian (the former leader of Ming Sect) had high regards about Xie Xun as a person and this might be an indication that Xie Xun was a good capable person with strong martial arts background before the tragedy that happened to his family.

So how do you guys rate Xie Xun ability as a fighter?

[CC]

Xie Xun should be close to The Eagle King in fighting. Which means after ZWJ and Z3F and CK, thats not much else in the league.

So he is likely in the top 5 in wulin. Top 5 spot aint too bad.

[Candide]

Hmm I think the Xuan Ming elders could be better than Xie Xun, considering how easily they knocked out Yang Xiao and Wei Yi Xiao (with 30% of their palm power, after exchanging palms with ZWJ).

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by CC
Xie Xun should be close to The Eagle King in fighting. Which means after ZWJ and Z3F and CK, thats not much else in the league.

So he is likely in the top 5 in wulin. Top 5 spot aint too bad.

Not shabby, but it must be pointed out that in HSDS, the gap between 1 and 2 and everybody else was quite significant. It was a long way down from Cheung 3 Fung and Cheung Mo Gei to the Yeun Ming Elders (don't forget them; they were more powerful than the Ming Cult's Heralds of Light and Guardian Lords) and everyone else below that.

[CC]

Originally posted by Candide
Hmm I think the Xuan Ming elders could be better than Xie Xun, considering how easily they knocked out Yang Xiao and Wei Yi Xiao (with 30% of their palm power, after exchanging palms with ZWJ).

Hmm I forgot all about this 2 guys... Guess he is in top 10 then....

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by CC
Hmm I forgot all about this 2 guys... Guess he is in top 10 then....

There's also the mysterious Lady Yeung to throw into the mix for consideration as well, not to mention Sing Kwun himself and the three Shaolin Elders (Do Geep, Do Ngak, Do Ngan) who guarded Tse Tsun at the end of HSDS.

[JUST BOB]

well, considering, Zhang CuiShan said this about XX comparing to his at the time 90 years old teacher. He may be wrong, but it would still make XX pretty powerful.

Zhang CuiShan was quite surprised, and didn’t quite believe Xie Xun. He always thought that his master Zhang SanFeng’s martial arts is unparalleled. But compared to Xie Xun, Zhang SanFeng is only somewhat better. If this Reverend Kong Jian really is much superior to Xie Xun, then would he also surpass master Zhang SanFeng? But Zhang CuiShan knew that his big brother never exaggerates with his compliments.

[immakiku]

I read that part too, but I think his observation was flawed. He couldn't have seen his master's complete power. To him, both XX and Z3F were levels higher than he can expect from anyone. Being at a lower level, he can't tell the difference in power of two great fighters. Kong Jian is undoubtedly much greater than XX: XX wasn't making assumptions on power - he was just observing how the events happened. And the events say that the most powerful hits XX can do, and in succession, was make Kong Jian turn on his body armor. However, that's just superior technique that Kong Jian mastered. His energy cultivation can't have reached Z3F's many more years of 9 Yang. His fighting techniques also can't have been superior to Z3F's genius theories and secluded contemplation.

[Ken Cheng]

It should also be noted that when Cheung Chui San made that observation about Tse Tsun vis a vis Cheung 3 Fung, Cheung Chui San was a relatively young (early 20s) and inexperienced warrior. Aside from his teacher, Cheung Chui San had not met very many high-level fighters. Perhaps after Cheung Chui San encountered the Yeun Ming Elder who kidnapped his son Cheung Mo Gei soon after his family's return to China, Cheung Chui San might have reevaluated his view of Tse Tsun's martial arts level.

[superboy]

Originally posted by Candide
Hmm I think the Xuan Ming elders could be better than Xie Xun, considering how easily they knocked out Yang Xiao and Wei Yi Xiao (with 30% of their palm power, after exchanging palms with ZWJ).

Does that mean that Yang Xiao and Wie Yi Xiao don't even have Yuan Ming Elder's 30%?

[Shulato]

I seemed to have the impression that those 2 Yuan Ming and the 3 Shaolin Elders were not good as an individual fighters. Their superiority in martial arts were achieved by fighting as a group. In my opinion, Xie Xun would be able to take on any of them one on one and at best perhaps fight to a draw.

One other thing, when Xie Xun went on his killing rampage, the martial artists that he'd killed, were they better or worse than him in terms of martial arts skills?

[superboy]

Originally posted by Shulato
I seemed to have the impression that those 2 Yuan Ming and the 3 Shaolin Elders were not good as an individual fighters. Their superiority in martial arts were achieved by fighting as a group. In my opinion, Xie Xun would be able to take on any of them one on one and at best perhaps fight to a draw.

One other thing, when Xie Xun went on his killing rampage, the martial artists that he'd killed, were they better or worse than him in terms of martial arts skills?

It was said that the indiviual elder of shaolin were at the level of CK.

[Athena]

Xie Xun is a good fighter and a good martial artist. He is about the same level as Yin Tianzheng, Fan Yao, Yang Xiao, Miejue Shi-tai etc.
Duwei, Dujie and Dunan were even more powerful than (individually) than any of the Xuanming elders (also individually). And He Biweng, Lu Zhangke were much stronger than Xie Xun, Zhang Wuji was very certain that even if Xie Xun was not blind he could never defeat either one of the Xuanming Elders.
So, Xie Xun could never be able to defeat Shaolin elders of the Du generation in actual combat.
Yuanzhen (Cheng Kun) was about the same level as I think Dujie and Dunan. Note, that Duwei was somewhat superior to his two other martial arts brothers.
Furthermore, Fang Dongbai, A' Er and A San were also excellent martial arts experts. Each of them could be better than Yang Xiao and Fan Yao. (Just because the sword stances, techniques and/or theories of Fan Yao are higher than Fang Dongbai does not mean he is superior to Fang Dongbai in actual combat).
Abbot Kongwen, reverends Kongzhi and Kongxing were probably also as good as Xie Xun or even better.

The people Xie Xun killed were all respectable martial artists with a good name but did not have very high martial arts.

Two extra characters who play really a minor role in HSDS are often forgotten. But their martial arts are very high, perhaps even better than Yang Xiao and Fan Yao. At least the two of them should be equal to them. These two mysterious experts are Po Tai and Hao Mi, also known as The Two Demons of Hejian Prefecture. Both were elderly men with long black beards. One uses a acu-sealing rod and the other uses a pair of judge's brushes, they attacked the three Shaolin elders when Zhang Wuji had just explained Cheng Kun's intentions.
The Two Demons and five other experts attacked, because the three old monks were distracted by Zhang Wuji their formation could not be used to stop these eight experts.
So, three attacked Duwei, another three attacked Dunan and Hao Mi, Po Tai attacked Dujie. They were even gaining the upper hand. Note Dujie was the second martial arts brother of the three Dus. Dunan was the third brother, Yin Tianzheng and Yang Xiao were only able to roughly tie with Dunan. While these two were able to gain the upper hand. I think that is most impressive.

[Shulato]

Originally posted by Athena
Xie Xun is a good fighter and a good martial artist. He is about the same level as Yin Tianzheng, Fan Yao, Yang Xiao, Miejue Shi-tai etc.
Duwei, Dujie and Dunan were even more powerful than (individually) than any of the Xuanming elders (also individually). And He Biweng, Lu Zhangke were much stronger than Xie Xun, Zhang Wuji was very certain that even if Xie Xun was not blind he could never defeat either one of the Xuanming Elders.
So, Xie Xun could never be able to defeat Shaolin elders of the Du generation in actual combat.
Yuanzhen (Cheng Kun) was about the same level as I think Dujie and Dunan. Note, that Duwei was somewhat superior to his two other martial arts brothers.
Furthermore, Fang Dongbai, A' Er and A San were also excellent martial arts experts. Each of them could be better than Yang Xiao and Fan Yao. (Just because the sword stances, techniques and/of theories of Fan Yao are higher than Fang Dongbai does not mean he is superior to Fan Yao in actual combat).
Abbot Kongwen, reverends Kongzhi and Kongxing were probably also as good as Xie Xun or even better.

The people Xie Xun killed were all respectable martial artists with a good name but did not have very high martial arts.

Two extra characters who play really a minor role in HSDS are often forgotten. But they're martial arts are very high, perhaps even better than Yang Xiao and Fan Yao. At least the two of them should be equal to them. These two mysterious experts are Po Tai and Hao Mi, also known as The Two Demons of Hejian Prefecture. Both were elderly men with long black beards. One uses a acu-sealing rod and the other uses a pair of judge's brush, they attacked the three Shaolin elders when Zhang Wuji had just explained Cheng Kun's intentions.
The Two Demons and five other experts attacked, because the three old monks were distracted by Zhang Wuji their formation could not be used to stop these eight experts.
So, three attacked Duwei, another three attacked Dunan and Hao Mi, Po Tai attacked Dujie. They were even gaining the upper hand. Note Dujie was the second martial arts brother of the three Dus. Dunan was the third brother, Yin Tianzheng and Yang Xiao were only able to roughly tie with Dunan. While these two were able to gain the upper hand. I think that is most impressive.

Many thanks to Athena for the info.
I always enjoy reading your posts and analysis.

This changes my opinion on Xie Xun a bit. There were many other good fighters in HSDS, only they didn't take centre stage most of the time like Zhang WuJi while we know that Zhang WuJi wasn't the best of fighter most of the time. He gave me the impression that the fighters of his era were rather useless compared to the previous eras.

[superboy]

Yeah, I always learn from Athena's posts.

[SkineePanda]

where do the 7 Wudang heroes stand? I heard Song Yuanqiao is roughly equal to one of the three Kong abbots, and maybe Yu Lianzhou too. Zhang ZongXi competed internal energy with Yin Tianzheng, and only retreated one step more. Muo Shenggu manage to win in weapons technique over Yin Tianzheng, but could've been crippled in return. Yan Lieting is said to be the best in sword techniques.

And Zhen Wu's 7 Sphere formation, could it beat the 3 Divine Reverends's whip formation?

[rabadi]

Originally posted by SkineePanda
And Zhen Wu's 7 Sphere formation, could it beat the 3 Divine Reverends's whip formation?

I'm curious about that too. What was the best formation out there in wuxia actually?

[JUST BOB]

Originally posted by SkineePanda
where do the 7 Wudang heroes stand? I heard Song Yuanqiao is roughly equal to one of the three Kong abbots, and maybe Yu Lianzhou too. Zhang ZongXi competed internal energy with Yin Tianzheng, and only retreated one step more. Muo Shenggu manage to win in weapons technique over Yin Tianzheng, but could've been crippled in return. Yan Lieting is said to be the best in sword techniques.

And Zhen Wu's 7 Sphere formation, could it beat the 3 Divine Reverends's whip formation?

I think Zhang ZongXi only retreated one more step because YinTianZheng had competed with a couple of monks and a HT elder, so he was pretty tired by then while Zhang was fresh.

[PJ]

I'd imagine if we compiled a top 50 ranking of JY fighters, HSDS would contain the most people. For that matter, I see very little chance of Xie Xun belonging to the top 20 of HSDS.

These people should be guarenteed to be better than Xie Xun:

[list=1][*]Zhang Sanfeng[*]Zhang Wuji[*]Lu Zhangke[*]He Biweng[*]Ah Da[*]Ah 2[*]Ah 3[*]Dunan[*]Dujie[*]Duwei[*]He Zhudao[*]Rev Kongjian[*]Cheng Kun[*]Abbot Kongwen[*]Po Tai [*]Hao Mi[*]Kong Zhi[*]Yellow dressed lady Yang[/list=1]

That is 18 people above him. The following should be on par with Xie Xun:

[list=1][*]Dai Yisi[*]Yin Tianzheng[*]Wei Yixiao[*]Yang Xiao[*]Fan Yao[*]Song Yuanqiao[*]Yu Lianzhou[*]Zhang Songxi[*]Zhang Cuishan[*]Yin Liting[*]Mo Xinggu[*]Miejue ShiTai[*]Kongxing[/list=1]

Shouldn't have trouble finding one or two from the above to beat XX.

[superboy]

I don't think ZCS and Yin Liting
were ever at the level of XX.