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Thread: baseball again

  1. #61

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    Leave it to the A's to stop the Cubs' run.

    Woohoo! Boy did I get on the right bandwagon back in '94...

    On a related note, for anybody who cares... Moonlight Graham was a real person!

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/grahamo01.shtml

    Coolness.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  2. #62
    Senior Member James Ko's Avatar
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    Yup, W.P. Kinsella knows his baseball history and Moonlight Graham is one of those folks that made famous by him.
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  3. #63
    Senior Member Lady Zhuge's Avatar
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    Congrats to Ken Griffey Jr. on hitting career homer number 500!!! What a nice Father's Day gift for his dad.
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

  4. #64
    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    What's the point of the 500 Homer club anymore?
    Cheap. I tell ya man, it's cheap.

    Now 700 Homer Club. That's exclusive.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Lady Zhuge's Avatar
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    To get into the 700 club, one must first set foot into the 500 one.
    It was just nice seeing Griffey Jr. hit number 500 against Matt Morris of the Cardinals, and thus contributing to the Red Birds' loss and helping the Cubs to move on up in the NL Central standings today.
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")

  6. #66
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    Chacon sucks. For some reason I thought he could be decent. Another bonehead move. I just dropped him in my league. Bastard put up an 8 ERA and a 2+ WHIP... Not worth it for the 10 SVs I got out of him. Good lord.

    So who's the closer in OAK now? Seems like Rhodes is out. Mecir? Bradford? Ewwww.

    Duscherer? (Whatever his name is)

  7. #67

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    Originally posted by flyingfox2002
    Chacon sucks. For some reason I thought he could be decent. Another bonehead move. I just dropped him in my league. Bastard put up an 8 ERA and a 2+ WHIP... Not worth it for the 10 SVs I got out of him. Good lord.

    So who's the closer in OAK now? Seems like Rhodes is out. Mecir? Bradford? Ewwww.

    Duscherer? (Whatever his name is)
    Who knows? Who cares? Just make the Big 3 or 4 or 5 go all 9 innings (more if the game goes extras!).

    Seriously... Beane needs to pull something out of that hat again for a closer and a somewhat decent outfield bat (Beltran anyone? Or has the Boss already called dibs on that?)
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  8. #68
    Senior Member James Ko's Avatar
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    Over the history of the game, only 20 member have hit 500 hr mark... that is pretty rare.

    is like hitters getting 3000 career hit or pitcher getting 300 wins.

    I am glad the kid did it (yes I still call Griffey the kid even though he is way older then me )

    I think the reason HR is not as spectacular as it once was during the few years we seen the single home record broken couple of times. it really taken a lot of hype from it.
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  9. #69
    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    3,000 hits and 300 wins are both rarer than 500 homers.

    Only Clemens reached the 300 wins mark in recent years, after him maybe Maddux. After them, there's a chance but slim for Glavine. These ppl are among the best pitchers of all time. Clemens easily among the best 5 of all time, and Maddux in the Top 10-15 of all time.

    Whereas for 3,000 hits, the number of hitters in recent years are also seems miniscule compared to the number of 500 homers in recent years.

    500 homers hitter in recent years: Barry Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Griffey,
    Coming up: McGriff.

    That's 5-6 in the less than 10 years. Incredible when compared to the other magical numbers like 300 wins or 3,000 hits.
    Therefore, 500 homers seems to have loose its relevance in this era of high level offence.

  10. #70

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    500 Homers is still a benchmark to shoot for though. Unless you feel like demeaning the likes of Willie McCovey, Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Ernie Banks, Willie Stargell, and others by moving the standard up to 550 (which, actually, I don't have a problem with, it's just not as nice and round as 500).

    As for Maddox being one of the 10-15 pitchers of all time... I don't know. Grove, W. Johnson, Mathewson, Alexander, Ryan, Charlton, Seaver, Gibson, Hubbel, Spahn, Ford, Paige, Koufax, Drysdale, Feller, Young. That's 16. That's a tough list to crack... and that's not even including the likes of Palmer or contemporaries like Clemens or R. Johnson or Martinez (all 3 of whom I would take over Maddox). I'm not too sure about Clemens being in the top 5 either, but he definitely belongs in the top 10.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  11. #71

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    Beltran to Houston, Dotel to Oakland.

    Mmm... good trade for everyone all around... except probably KC, but they had little option but trading Beltran.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  12. #72
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    KC came out pretty well. Looking at history of these last-year-star for prospects trades, this one's about right. Teahan's a very good prospects blocked by Chavez. Buck is a top 3-5 catching prospects, and Wood is an ok filler. It's about what the Marlins got for Piazza, or the Expos for Pedro.

    It's amazing that I'm not extremely excited about this trade. The Astros are playing so poorly all around that it's really put a damper on things. Still, this is one hell of a lineup again now with Beltran effectively replacing Hidalgo.

  13. #73
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    Beltran should bat 2nd, but instead it looks like Williams intends to hit him behind sucky Everett...

    Go figure. Lots of baseball people just can't think outside the box. They automatically want a punch and judy type at the 2 hole cuz they wanna give up an out with a bunt. The smart way is to have your best hitters hit as often as possible. Most fans and lots of baseball people don't understand it because the concept is outside the box.

    I wonder if Beltran will go thru a transitional period moving into another league, he may not have his usual monster 2nd half this yr. I sure hope he will have a big 2nd half though, he's on my team.

    It doesn't look like KC got a single prospect with great upside - i.e. a star.

    Hey, Contreras is reunited with his family. This will either A) eliminate his worries about family and let him concentrate on baseball, or B) make him pre-occupied with making up lost family time and forgetting about concentrating on baseball.

    Frankly I dunno which way he'll go. Option A is more likely I think...

  14. #74
    Senior Member James Ko's Avatar
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    The trade make sense to the Astro... didn't a few weeks they traded away Hidagelo (sp).
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  15. #75
    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Moinllieon


    As for Maddux being one of the 10-15 pitchers of all time... I don't know. Grove, W. Johnson, Mathewson, Alexander, Ryan, Charlton, Seaver, Gibson, Hubbel, Spahn, Ford, Paige, Koufax, Drysdale, Feller, Young. That's 16. That's a tough list to crack... and that's not even including the likes of Palmer or contemporaries like Clemens or R. Johnson or Martinez (all 3 of whom I would take over Maddox). I'm not too sure about Clemens being in the top 5 either, but he definitely belongs in the top 10.
    Clemens is definitely Top 5 in most ppl's book.

    IMHO, Nolan Ryan is way over-rated and cannot be compared to Greg Maddux at all. The others like Ford, Drysdale etc way less accomplised than Maddux. Koufax is too short a career.

    I was being very very conservative when putting Maddux in my top 10-15 list. Most ppl have already reserved a seat in the top10 for him.

  16. #76
    Senior Member James Ko's Avatar
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    maddux is not as flashy as most of the pitchers because he doesn't have that heat raising fast ball or wicked curved ball.

    he gets the job done... and which is the win column.
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  17. #77

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    Originally posted by Han Solo
    Clemens is definitely Top 5 in most ppl's book.

    IMHO, Nolan Ryan is way over-rated and cannot be compared to Greg Maddux at all. The others like Ford, Drysdale etc way less accomplised than Maddux. Koufax is too short a career.

    I was being very very conservative when putting Maddux in my top 10-15 list. Most ppl have already reserved a seat in the top10 for him.
    Taking Koufax out b/c of his "short" career is a little wouldn't you say? The man had a 12 year career and was about the dominant pitcher the big leagues has ever seen for 6 of them. You can make a case that Drysdale and Ryan are overrated (I would agree too, those 2 would probably rank last among the pitchers I listed). As for Ford... well... define "less accomplished", because the man was the ace for a lot more championship teams than Maddux was on.

    So, even if you take out Drysdale and Ryan, that still leaves 14, and like I said, I'm not even counting the likes of Martinez, Clemens, and Johnson, all 3 of whom I consider to be better than Maddux. Maddux is good, probably top 20... but not top 15 and CERTAINLY not top 10, at least in my book. Maybe I'm putting a little too much emphasis on the impression of "dominance" as we speak. But that's just how I feel at the moment. Maybe looking back a while from now, I'd change my mind.
    Last edited by Moinllieon; 06-27-04 at 05:28 PM.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  18. #78
    Senior Member James Ko's Avatar
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    Speaking about pitchers... most of the pitchers listed have a great lineup backing them up if they screw up a game. Ford for example have one of the best hitters to get him out of jams.

    And second, half the pitchers that people list as top 10, I doubt anyone of us have seen them pitch before but only just heard and saw stats about... and even the stats sometimes tells you a different story.
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  19. #79
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    I've never been a fan of comparing players from different eras. The game is so much different now, hitters are stronger and faster, and pitchers throw harder (though stamina has decreased as a result of the different practice in developing pitchers).

    The only way to compare players from different eras in my opinion, is to first compare the players to their respective peers in his given era, and then compare how much greater each player's performance was than the peers.

    Bonds would have been great no matter when he played... the steroids scandal notwithstanding...

    Cheater did a Superman imitation into the stands last night apparently. I didn't watch or listen to the NYY-BOS series at all, but the Yankz have clinched the AL East, as if there was any doubt since day 1.

    Austin Kearns is something else. He gets a sore on his thumb and needs surgery. Never heard of that before.

  20. #80
    Senior Member James Ko's Avatar
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    Jeter face first to the seat was boardcast on the MLB.com site... not sure if it is still there.

    Yes, I agree with Fox commoen about comparing players of different era. The more mature I am about the understanding of the sports... the more I hate when they have list of top 100 top 10 etc players of all time. They should have top 100 "so and so" favorite player instead or just based on one stats that matter the most how many championship they won because isn't that what is all about in the sport.... winning the big one.
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