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Thread: baseball again

  1. #341
    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    What do you think of the sad saga of Barry Bonds?

  2. #342

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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo
    What do you think of the sad saga of Barry Bonds?
    I almost feel sorry for him. Until I remembered that he was the one who brought it onto himself.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  3. #343
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    I hope Bonds is done. It would be a shame to have the all time homerun leader be a cheater. Unfortunately, his bloated head will likely show up in left field yet.

    The Giambino looks pretty decent without the juice. I wouldn't be surprised if he was truly clean this year because even with the option of undetectable performance enhancers, he might be too scared to risk worsening his reputation. He could still be a solid hitter in that lineup.

    PS, amended AL ROY prediction. Forget about Reed. Silly me.
    This account is retired.

  4. #344

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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingfox2002
    The Giambino looks pretty decent without the juice. I wouldn't be surprised if he was truly clean this year because even with the option of undetectable performance enhancers, he might be too scared to risk worsening his reputation. He could still be a solid hitter in that lineup.
    Yes, because you can go so much lower than admitting to injecting yourself with chemicals that shrink your cojones to the size of macadamian nuts so as to cheat others out of their livelihood. You know if he thinks he can get away with it, he would do it without a second thought.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  5. #345
    Senior Member KJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingfox2002
    I hope Bonds is done. It would be a shame to have the all time homerun leader be a cheater. Unfortunately, his bloated head will likely show up in left field yet.

    The Giambino looks pretty decent without the juice. I wouldn't be surprised if he was truly clean this year because even with the option of undetectable performance enhancers, he might be too scared to risk worsening his reputation. He could still be a solid hitter in that lineup.

    PS, amended AL ROY prediction. Forget about Reed. Silly me.
    I hope he won't ever play again either. And not surpass the Babe's number. It's bad enough he has the season HR record, he shouldn't have the all time record too.

  6. #346
    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    If you excuse my anger and language, i think that it is bull shit to just blame Bonds for Steroids. He is not the only one who uses this substance. McGwire, Canseco, Giambi etc.

    And if you believe the tales, ~10-25% of the big league players or even more are using this substance as well.

    About other HR leaders, Sosa is a cheater, caught with a cork in his bats.

    Further, even you exclude the recent year "achievements" of Bonds, the things that he did during the 80-90s would be enough to put him in the Hall of Fame.

    Han SOlo

  7. #347

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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo
    If you excuse my anger and language, i think that it is bull shit to just blame Bonds for Steroids. He is not the only one who uses this substance. McGwire, Canseco, Giambi etc.

    And if you believe the tales, ~10-25% of the big league players or even more are using this substance as well.

    About other HR leaders, Sosa is a cheater, caught with a cork in his bats.

    Further, even you exclude the recent year "achievements" of Bonds, the things that he did during the 80-90s would be enough to put him in the Hall of Fame.

    Han SOlo
    There's a difference between getting in the Hall of Fame and being the "All Time HR Leader". I don't think many people are denying that the man deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. But at the same time, I don't think many people will take any record he has or will set seriously. I mean, the man does not deserved to be blamed for steroids, but he deserves to be punished for using steroids and he won't be the only one. As things stands now, McGuire won't get into the Hall of Fame despite hitting 580+ HRs. And it won't be just the ones who have been linked to steroids that will be punished, Sosa, Juan Gonzalez, Palmeiro, Bagwell, and Pudge will all have to fight through some resistance to get into the Hall because it will be so hard to place their accomplishment in context of whose numbers might be inflated and whose might not be. Even Griffey and Manny and A-Rod who will get into the Hall for sure will never be viewed as great as they should be viewed because the league that they put up their numbers in are so skewed.

    That's why the backlash. Because it's not fair not only to the people whose records they are surpassing, but to their peers who are clean. And not just because they might have tainted the names of those who are clean, but because they've denied those who are clean their rightful place in history. Can you imagine if Bagwell doesn't get into the Hall because he stayed clean and put up "not so good" numbers when compared to the steroid-enhanced contemporaries? Well, get used to it, it'll probably happen.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moinllieon
    Yes, because you can go so much lower than admitting to injecting yourself with chemicals that shrink your cojones to the size of macadamian nuts so as to cheat others out of their livelihood. You know if he thinks he can get away with it, he would do it without a second thought.
    Actually, I believe Giambi is serious about redemption and trying to earn back his reputation so I don't think he is using any undetectable substance now, especially considering all the health problems (which may or may not be steroids induced) last year. However, if he stumbles out of the gate, it's conceivable he may then consider using something at that time.

    McGwire was actually arguably a fringe Hall of Fame player even without steroids. He hit 49 dingers his rookie year when he physically looked like he was clean. Then he consistently hit 30+ homers when he had healthy years. I never paid attention to the A's back in the early 90's, so I don't remember seeing McGwire's physique, but from what I've heard, he seemed like he was clean at the time. Steroids did take his power up a huge notch, but he was a very good power hitter even without.

    As for Bonds, I agree he is a HOF'er even pre-steroids, but he would not have been the all-time Legend that he has become with the help of the juice. At this point, had we not known Bonds is (or was) juiced, it would not be nuts to consider him the greatest of all time.
    This account is retired.

  9. #349

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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingfox2002
    Actually, I believe Giambi is serious about redemption and trying to earn back his reputation so I don't think he is using any undetectable substance now, especially considering all the health problems (which may or may not be steroids induced) last year. However, if he stumbles out of the gate, it's conceivable he may then consider using something at that time.
    Giambi is a nice guy, but he still used it despite all of that the first time around. There's no guarantee he won't if he thinks he can get away with it.

    McGwire was actually arguably a fringe Hall of Fame player even without steroids. He hit 49 dingers his rookie year when he physically looked like he was clean. Then he consistently hit 30+ homers when he had healthy years. I never paid attention to the A's back in the early 90's, so I don't remember seeing McGwire's physique, but from what I've heard, he seemed like he was clean at the time. Steroids did take his power up a huge notch, but he was a very good power hitter even without.
    If you ever get to see a rerun of the Gibson HR game, you can see what McGuire looked like in 88. He was Canseco size by then. In fact, it's amazing how much he beefed up in the year or two after his rookie year. *hint hint*

    I agree he's a fringe Hall of Famer, but if not for those 4 steroid-enhanced years from 1996 to 1999 when he hit 245 HRs, he might not even be considered that. He hit almost half of his career total those 4 years! Let me ask you, do you think Cecil Fielder belongs in the Hall of Fame?

    As for Bonds, I agree he is a HOF'er even pre-steroids, but he would not have been the all-time Legend that he has become with the help of the juice. At this point, had we not known Bonds is (or was) juiced, it would not be nuts to consider him the greatest of all time.
    Agreed. But, pre-steroid explosion, his 1993 season (the year he first moved to SF) was one of the greatest, if not the greatest, offensive seasons since the 60s. If you look at Barry Bonds career up until 1999, when his forehead doubled in size, you'd swear those were Frank Robinson numbers with more steals. Which is up there in the top 30 or so, he vaulted up about 25 spots or so in the last 5 years though.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  10. #350
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    I think that in a period of about 6 years in the early-mid 90's, Fielder was one of the best power hitters in baseball, but he did not amass enough total career stats to warrant consideration. But, if considered purely on the merits of those 6/7 years, he is worthy of at least a thought.

    McGwire's dominance was no doubt post-steroids, and after looking at ESPN's all-time stats, I change my mind. McGwire pre-1996, when he broke the 50 HR mark for the first time (presumably, this is when he either upgraded or started whatever juice he was on), was not a fringe HOF'er. I didn't realize his BA was Rob Deeresque in some of those yrs.
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  11. #351

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    Hey, don't you be talking about Rob Deer like that.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  12. #352
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    We don't really have Rob Deeresque OF's or 1B's in the majors anymore. When power was rarer back in the day, OF's like Deer could still make a career of .215 27 75, but nowadays these guys end up getting demoted or released.

    Of course, you still have IF's like Valentin and Jose Hernandez who are similar, but they are IF's, so they don't count.

    Here's a baseball riddle for everyone: Who is the only active major leaguer with 4 body parts in his name?

    (You may have heard it before)
    Last edited by flyingfox2002; 03-28-05 at 03:34 PM.
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  13. #353

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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingfox2002
    Here's a baseball riddle for everyone: Who is the only active major leaguer with 4 body parts in his name?

    (You may have heard it before)
    Well, you got me.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  14. #354
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    Tony Armas.
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  15. #355

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    I don't get the Tony Armas joke.

    Anyways, silly prediction time!! All predictions presented here are rather silly, but as a wiseman once said: "If you take a whole bunch of silly guesses and declares them as such, it's a win-win situation. For if one of them turns out right, you look smart, and if none of them should come true. Well, they were silly guesses to begin with."

    NL
    Marlins - Because predicting a win for the Braves is just so passe.
    Cardinals - Umm... ok, not that silly, but what did you expect from me? Consistency?
    Padres - Because Bonds is out for who knows how long and Dodgers lost Beltre
    Wildcard: Cubs - That's right, Braves miss the playoffs. Like I can come up with a good reason why that might be.
    MVP: Pujols (the guy is due).
    Cy Young: Pedro - Good chance he'll do well, not to mention with that much hype.

    Divisional round:
    Cubs over Marlins - After an incredible incident during Top of the 9th in Game 5 when some Florida fan inexplicably runs onto the field and tackle Juan Pierre, preventing him from nabbing the final flyout and giving the Cubs a chance at an incredible comeback. Turns out the guy was Bartman.
    Padres over Cards - Better pitching.

    NLCS: Cubs over Padres - Because I have a hunch I'm still contractually obligated to pick this result.

    AL
    Red Sox - Why not? Sooner or later it's got to happen.
    Twins - The silly part comes later for them.
    Angels - I was thisclose to picking the A's because they have the most talent. But I think the Angels squeeze it out because K-Rod is better than anything the A's have.
    Wildcard: Yankees - I'm silly, but not that silly.
    MVP: David Ortiz
    Cy Young: Johan Santana - Dude, do you remember last year and that changeup?

    Divisional round:
    Red Sox over the Angels - Seems right to me.
    Twins over Yankees - The Yanks were 2 bad managing decisions away from being pushed to Game 5 by the Twins last year, and the Twins weren't hitting.

    ALCS: Twins over Red Sox - Well, I gotta pick something silly to maintain the theme.

    WS: Twins over Cubs. Before Game 7, a herd of goats shepherded by a gang of black cats were found grazing in the outfield, thus the result of the game was already decided before the game itself. (And trust me as I say this: I so wish that it was the Indians or the A's that I'm picking here, but oh well, the Twins make some silly sense.)

    One more prediction: some player who is not known as a HR hitter will be busted for steroids as people finally realize that it's not only the HR hitters that are taking steroids. That players are taking them for things other than just hitting HRs.

    Oh look I was right...

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2029037

    It's almost as if I made that prediction after I read the article.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

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