Yang Guo vs. Ling Hu Chong

[Wu Wudi]

yeah, but if DGQB were already invincible in his time when he was only at the level of a YG that had to cheat to beat QQR, that would mean that his world had zero Great-level talents. It's not that impressive to be undefeated if none of your opponents were at a Great's level, no? That plus what you said about RWX being a worthy opponent of DGQB just seem to make him far less impressive than what people usually think of DGQB.

[KChill]

That doesn't make Dook Goo Kau Bai sound so great, because while Yeung Gor did become very, very good, he wasn't indisputably the best martial artist in the world of ROCH even at the end of the story.

So if Yeung Gor had reached Dook Goo Kau Bai's level by ROCH's end, the best we can say for Dook Goo Kau Bai was that he was as good as an ROCH Great.

That's a matter of reader interpretation. IMO, he was clearly the best. Combine this with his probably being about 50 years younger than most of the greats, and 30 years junior to GJ....and I think his closeness to their skill level actually make DGQB look like a genius. Pretty much as soon as he learned the Heavy Iron Sword Technique, he was good enough to beat Qiu Quanren, remember.

[batmankiller]

Where in the novel does it say that DBQB is equal to RWX or RWX would be a worthy opponent, please cite it out of the text.. Or where in the novel does it hint that.

"Only with the stimulation from his extraordinary Kung Fu, were the many profound and subtle aspects of the “Dugu Nine Swords” able to make the most revealing performance. Even if Dugu Seeking-A-Loss could come back to life, or if Feng Qingyang had come himself, they would have found great joy fighting such a capable opponent. To successfully use the “Dugu Nine Swords” relied on not only a very good understanding of the sword techniques and variations, but also the intelligence of the practitioner, where the second part played even a bigger part. Once the practitioner had reached a stage where he could extend at will with no restraints and no boundaries, then the more intelligent the practitioner was, the more brilliant the sword art would become, and to him, each sword contest would have been like a poet composing a wonderful poem after following his greatest inspirations."

Clearly it means that RWX is somewhat decent in martial arts and someone like FCY or DGQB would enjoy fighting him because that's what brings out the full power of DG9J. I mean they only gave a full 3-4 paragraphs and how the stronger the opponent is the better the skill becomes to adapt to the opponent. And it would just be joyful for the two experts, FCY and DGQB to actually see te true power in the DG9J. I wonder why people decided to turn this into oh "RWX would be a formiddable opponent for DGQB.

And I personally don't believe this means FCY=DGQB or that DGQB never fought someone like RWX-status in his career pre-text. I think the narrator just simply named the only other two people that used DG9J. I also think the narrator disregarded what DGQB did face in his years and more in the fact that RWX is good in martial arts and that DG9J scales with the threat.

[PJ]

yeah, but if DGQB were already invincible in his time when he was only at the level of a YG that had to cheat to beat QQR, that would mean that his world had zero Great-level talents. It's not that impressive to be undefeated if none of your opponents were at a Great's level, no?

In DGSD, it was said that until chapter 16 or 17, Xiao Feng had never fought anyone of Abbot Xuanci's calibre. So even if Xiao Feng only had 30% of his power, he would still be undefeatable for the first 30 years of his life. Similarly, it is possible that even if Dugu Qiubai at his peak only had 30% of his power, he *might* still be undefeatable in his era.

[PJ]

Where in the novel does it say that DBQB is equal to RWX or RWX would be a worthy opponent, please cite it out of the text.. Or where in the novel does it hint that.

You already quoted the textual passage.

Clearly it means that RWX is somewhat decent in martial arts and someone like FCY or DGQB would enjoy fighting him because that's what brings out the full power of DG9J.

Which means very few, if any, other people that Dugu Qiubai or Feng Qingyang had EVER faced in their lives, would be able to bring out the full potential of Dugu 9 Swords as Ren Woxing can.

I mean they only gave a full 3-4 paragraphs and how the stronger the opponent is the better the skill becomes to adapt to the opponent. And it would just be joyful for the two experts, FCY and DGQB to actually see te true power in the DG9J. I wonder why people decided to turn this into oh "RWX would be a formiddable opponent for DGQB.

If Ren Woxing would not be a formiddable opponent for Dugu Qiubai then why would he be EXTREMELY PLEASED to fight him? If Dugu Qiubai can defeat Ren Woxing in 10 stances, then how is that bringing out the full power of DG9J as you said?

And I personally don't believe this means FCY=DGQB or that DGQB never fought someone like RWX-status in his career pre-text. I think the narrator just simply named the only other two people that used DG9J. I also think the narrator disregarded what DGQB did face in his years and more in the fact that RWX is good in martial arts and that DG9J scales with the threat.

The narrator said Dugu Qiubai and Feng Qingyang would both be extremely happy to meet Ren Woxing. It would seem inconsistent if Dugu Qiubai is in fact much stronger than Feng. THat would be like saying: Xiao Feng and Murong Fu would both be extremely happy to fight a person of Duan Yanqing's calibre. While Murong Fu would be pleased to fight Duan Yanqing, I am not sure whether Xiao Feng, who is much stronger, would feel the same way.

[Patudo]

I took the liberty of going back to the original text and attempting my own translation:

“独孤九剑”是敌强愈强，敌人如果武 功不高，“独孤九剑”的精要处也就用不上。此时令狐冲所遇的，乃是当今武林中一位惊天动地的人物，武功之强 ，已到了常人所不可思议的境界，一经他的激发，“独孤九剑”中种种奥妙精微之处，这才发挥得淋漓尽致。独孤 求败如若复生，又或风清扬亲临，能遇到这样的对手，也当欢喜不尽。

"The Nine Lone Swords" matches itself to its opponent; if the antagonist's skill at arms was not high, the most mind-boggling aspects of the "Nine Lone Swords" could not be utilized. Linghu Chong was facing an earthshaking figure of the martial circle, his martial arts so powerful that it had reached a stage beyond the imagination of others. Under its impetus the "Nine Lone Swords" created all sorts of strange [counters], that was why it [performed so well]. Had He who Seeks Defeat been reincarnated, or Feng Qingyang been present, they would definitely be pleased at the opportunity to encounter such an opponent."

I actually think Ren Woxing's martial arts ability may be higher than he is generally given credit for. As for the reference to Feng Qingyang and Du Gu Qiu Bai being pleased to encounter an opponent of Ren's calibre, that could be interpreted in all sorts of ways. Ren's swordsmanship exceeded that of the Four Fellows of Jiangnan, Feng Buping etc considerably, as it took Linghu Chong's "Nine Lone Swords" to a far higher level of counter-response. One could say that Ren's level of performance would have given Feng Qingyang and Du Gu Qiu Bai pleasure in sparring against it, but IMO still does not indicate whether Ren's level of swordsmanship would have constituted a truly serious challenge to either swordsman.

[batmankiller]

The narrator said Dugu Qiubai and Feng Qingyang would both be extremely happy to meet Ren Woxing. It would seem inconsistent if Dugu Qiubai is in fact much stronger than Feng. THat would be like saying: Xiao Feng and Murong Fu would both be extremely happy to fight a person of Duan Yanqing's calibre. While Murong Fu would be pleased to fight Duan Yanqing, I am not sure whether Xiao Feng, who is much stronger, would feel the same way.

Like I said earlier.. this is because they were the only two sole D9J users in the novel other than LHC. Their names were brought out for that sole reason not because these two are equal in skill and. And it already said LHC was already appearing to be stronger fighting with an enemy like RWX. So i think it was just using an example of how any person whose understand and can use D9J to a somewhat profound level would be able to be able to bring out the true essence of d9J when fighting someone like RWX's level.

[kwekmh]

The narrator said Dugu Qiubai and Feng Qingyang would both be extremely happy to meet Ren Woxing. It would seem inconsistent if Dugu Qiubai is in fact much stronger than Feng. THat would be like saying: Xiao Feng and Murong Fu would both be extremely happy to fight a person of Duan Yanqing's calibre. While Murong Fu would be pleased to fight Duan Yanqing, I am not sure whether Xiao Feng, who is much stronger, would feel the same way.

In my opinion, that is not a very fair comparison. You do not know what's DGQB's personality; in fact it was never really mentioned at all in any of the novels. He might be extremely pleased to meet Ren Woxing due to his personality. Maybe he has a liking for people with such swordplay, even though it might be child's play in his eyes. For all you know, he might be happy just to even meet people who uses a sword as their weapon. You do not have sufficient details about the various characters to compare them in this way.

Also, DGQB at the end supposedly reached the highest level of swordsmanship, "No Sword". Maybe the reincarnation was just referring to the stage where DGQB just created DG9J? If not, according to what you say, the author is trying to say that RWX has nearly reached the "No Sword" stage. I'm sure that ain't the intention of the author.

[CC]

In my opinion, that is not a very fair comparison. You do not know what's DGQB's personality; in fact it was never really mentioned at all in any of the novels. He might be extremely pleased to meet Ren Woxing due to his personality. Maybe he has a liking for people with such swordplay, even though it might be child's play in his eyes. For all you know, he might be happy just to even meet people who uses a sword as their weapon. You do not have sufficient details about the various characters to compare them in this way.

.

That is being rediculous! Look, when the author wrote that paragraph, it was just after mentioning RWX's prowess. Does he have to spell out everything explicitly?

Take for example : DFBB killed Hall Master Tong. However, the author never mentioned that Hall Master Tong was 100% alert and 100% inclined to fight DFBB. So I argue that Tong might have been an even more powerful fighter then DFBB. Since the author never explicitly stated that Tong did not want to commit suicide, maybe he deliberately let DFBB kill him.

You can only stretch logic that far.

[kwekmh]

Take for example : DFBB killed Hall Master Tong. However, the author never mentioned that Hall Master Tong was 100% alert and 100% inclined to fight DFBB. So I argue that Tong might have been an even more powerful fighter then DFBB. Since the author never explicitly stated that Tong did not want to commit suicide, maybe he deliberately let DFBB kill him.

Who knows, that might be true.

On a more serious note, we're talking about a character whom we know almost nothing about. For all you know, he might be a weirdo. Although I can understand that it is indeed a bit ridiculous, I was just arguing against your comparison. I still feel that comparison is unfair.

[CC]

Who knows, that might be true.

On a more serious note, we're talking about a character whom we know almost nothing about. For all you know, he might be a weirdo. Although I can understand that it is indeed a bit ridiculous, I was just arguing against your comparison. I still feel that comparison is unfair.

We know nothing about him but what little we know about him points to him wanting nothing more then a good fight. So its most logical to deduce that he would be extremely pleased to meet someone who can give him a good run.

Whats so difficult to accept about that? IMHO, readers can't accept it due to it hinting that RWX is close to a ROCH Great Fighter and DFBB miles ahead. Unfortunately, JY always creates problems for us A vs B type fans by his plot over 'wuxia math' style.

[kwekmh]

We know nothing about him but what little we know about him points to him wanting nothing more then a good fight. So its most logical to deduce that he would be extremely pleased to meet someone who can give him a good run.

Whats so difficult to accept about that? IMHO, readers can't accept it due to it hinting that RWX is close to a ROCH Great Fighter and DFBB miles ahead. Unfortunately, JY always creates problems for us A vs B type fans by his plot over 'wuxia math' style.

Define DGQB's "Good fight". He might have won so much that he gave up and his "good fight" might be nothing more than a few stances.

If something is not explicitly stated in the novel, different people will have different assumptions and difference perspectives. You might think that it's because readers are unable to accept whatever points you provided, but in another way of looking at it, you're the one unable to accept whatever they accepted.

[CC]

Define DGQB's "Good fight". He might have won so much that he gave up and his "good fight" might be nothing more than a few stances.

If something is not explicitly stated in the novel, different people will have different assumptions and difference perspectives. You might think that it's because readers are unable to accept whatever points you provided, but in another way of looking at it, you're the one unable to accept whatever they accepted.

In that case, I would speculate that Dugu would be 'extremely pleased' because he finally can change his 'Qiu Bai' name because RWX would have defeated him and you are just not accepting it.

[kwekmh]

In that case, I would speculate that Dugu would be 'extremely pleased' because he finally can change his 'Qiu Bai' name because RWX would have defeated him and you are just not accepting it.

It's entirely up to you. You'll just have a hard time trying to argue your point. But then again, debates usually start due to different opinions by different people.

[PJ]

Like I said earlier.. this is because they were the only two sole D9J users in the novel other than LHC. Their names were brought out for that sole reason not because these two are equal in skill and.

That's probably true. But sole reason? I think not. I never said Dugu Qiubai = Feng Qingyang, but that statement does make their gap smaller.

[PJ]

One could say that Ren's level of performance would have given Feng Qingyang and Du Gu Qiu Bai pleasure in sparring against it, but IMO still does not indicate whether Ren's level of swordsmanship would have constituted a truly serious challenge to either swordsman.

It does suggest that Ren Woxing is better than most, if not all, of the opponents that Feng or Dugu ever faced.

[gjong]

wow it seems that every where there is anything to do with Yang Guo the issue of Yang Guo vs Guo Jing will arise...... well I mean both of them are heroes. kind hearted, why bother comparing both of them? Both of them are simply unique in their own ways...in terms of martial arts both of them have reachest the highest level and is possible for either one to defeat the other, so to say who is stronger doesn't really tell much....

[shortsight]

wow it seems that every where there is anything to do with Yang Guo the issue of Yang Guo vs Guo Jing will arise...... well I mean both of them are heroes. kind hearted, why bother comparing both of them? Both of them are simply unique in their own ways...in terms of martial arts both of them have reachest the highest level and is possible for either one to defeat the other, so to say who is stronger doesn't really tell much....

If no one is bother to compare the protagonists, there won't be so much good read in spcnet forum. You probably might not even create an account to drop this post in the first place!

[ChanceEncounter]

In that case, I would speculate that Dugu would be 'extremely pleased' because he finally can change his 'Qiu Bai' name because RWX would have defeated him and you are just not accepting it.

You could speculate at it. But you would have nothing that would remotely support your point.

All it would take for Dugu to be pleased is someone who's a decent challenge, or someone that could even make him defend himself once, since no one could even do that against his swordsmanship.

[Western Eccentric]

YG win without doubt..