An ironic conversation between Yeung Gor and Yeun Nan Ping

[Ken Cheng]

When Yeung Gor and Yeun Nan Ping first met in RETURN OF THE CONDOR HEROES, they had a conversation (or at least they did in ROCH '83 by TVB) that is rife with irony. Here's the exchange (going by memory, here, so it might not be verbatim):

Yeun Nan Ping: I forgot to ask...what's your name?

Yeung Gor: Me? I'm called Yeung Gor.

Yeun Nan Ping: Yeung . . . then that means you're a Han, not a Mongol! That's great!

Yeung Gor: So what if I'm a Han?

Yeun Nan Ping: If you're a Han, then we can be friends!

This conversation is ironic for three reasons:

1. If Yeun Nan Ping had said this to Yeung Gor only twenty years earlier, it would have been ridiculous. The Han and Juchen people hated each other, and had been at war against each other for nearly a century.

2. Yeung Gor's father Yeung Hong was a Han who had been a Jin prince...heir to the Jin throne. In fact, Yeun Nan Ping could have been Yeung Hong's niece or cousin.

3. Yeung Gor's ancestors had waged war against the Juchen in past generations.

Neither character seemed conscious of the irony, but many readers/viewers probably noticed it.

[Laviathan]

In the novel, it is a bit different.

After having taught her a method to defeat Yelu Qi, Yang Guo said:

"My name is Yang Guo, I'm Han, not a Mongol. My parents have died as well, I'm in the same situation as you are..."

Wanyan Ping got tears in her eyes after hearing this, and Yang Guo began weeping.

Wanyan Ping: "Master Yang, I'm so sorry I've made you cry."

Yang Guo: "Don't call me 'Master Yang'. How old are you?"

Wanyan Ping: "I'm eighteen. And you?"

Yang Guo: "I'm also eighteen." (She might be some months older than I, but I don't want her to call me Little Brother, that's lame) "I was born in the first month, so you just call me Big Brother Yang, OK? I won't be formal either, and just call you Little Sis."

(Omitted: Wanyan Ping fights with Yelu Qi)

Wanyan Ping: "How did you learn such superb martial arts? And how come you became an official for the Mongols?"

Yang Guo: "I'm not a Mongol official. I was fleeing from a dangerous enemy and I disguised myself is all."

Wanyan Ping: "GREAT!"

Yang Guo: "What's so great about that?"

Wanyan Ping: "The Mongols are the archenemy of the Great Jin Empire, of course I hoped you're not their official."

Yang Guo: "What if I was an official of the Great Jin Empire, how would you treat me?"

Wanyan Ping: "If my father was still alive, he could give you whatever your heart desires. Now both my parents are gone, and there's no use to think about these things anymore."

[Guo Xiang]

3. Yeung Gor's ancestors had waged war against the Juchen in past generations.

Three thoughts about this.

1) The personal knowledge of this might have been lost since Yang Kang's time.

2) Yang Guo doesn't seem to know about his glorious ancestors. Nobody seems to tell him either.

3) Bleeeh. How many people in China has the surname of 'Yang'? They doesn't all come from the famous Yang family.

[kamii]

Bleeeh. How many people in China has the surname of 'Yang'? They doesn't all come from the famous Yang family.

By the time of this story was China really huge already cause people who had the same last names might still hav been distant relatives. I remember their used to be a saying that was used in TV series bak in the old days. It was somethin like "we would hav been brothers 500 yrs ago" or somethin like that. Not really used nemore tho.

[rabadi]

What about surnames Wanyan and Yelu? Do people with those surnames automatically come from Jin and Mongolian ancestry?

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by rabadi
What about surnames Wanyan and Yelu? Do people with those surnames automatically come from Jin and Mongolian ancestry?

More or less. The Yeun Nan clan was the royal family of the Juchen tribe, while the Yeh Lut clan was the royal family of the Khitan tribe. It was interesting that the descendants of these defeated civilizations appeared together in ROCH.

[rabadi]

Originally posted by Ken Cheng
...while the Yeh Lut clan was the royal family of the Khitan tribe.

Ah yes, Yelu is of Khitan, not Mongolian. I somehow always got them mixed.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by rabadi
Ah yes, Yelu is of Khitan, not Mongolian. I somehow always got them mixed.

You're not entirely wrong, however. The Khitan were an offshoot of the Mongol peoples.

[Laviathan]

Originally posted by Ken Cheng
More or less. The Yeun Nan clan was the royal family of the Juchen tribe, while the Yeh Lut clan was the royal family of the Khitan tribe.

Strictly speaking, it is actually the Wanyan Tribe being the ruling house of the Jin Dynasty. While the Yelu Tribe was the imperial house of the Liao.

The Khitan, like the Yurched, were divided by many different tribes. But unlike the Yurched, the Khitans only had two tribes with a surname: Yelu and Xiao (the Tribe of the Empress). Khitans from other tribes did not have surnames at all.

Originally posted by Ken Cheng
You're not entirely wrong, however. The Khitan were an offshoot of the Mongol peoples.

The Khitans were said to have descended from the Xianbei. The Khitans did share some ethnic connections with the Mongols (mixture of Hun, Turk and Xianbei).

[rabadi]

Originally posted by Laviathan
...with the Mongols (mixture of Hun, Turk and Xianbei).

That's interesting. Any possibility that Attila the Hun was Genghis Khan's ancestor?

[xiaolong]

I was thinking, didn't it dawn on Yang Guo that he's kinda related to Wanyan Ping? E.g. Heroes Feast chapter in ROCH: "Guo Jing said, 'Brother Yang Kang was unfortunate that he ended up in the Jin palace and fell in with the wrong crowd.'"

Then post-16 years, Ke Zhen E at Iron Spear Temple told him YK was raised as a Jin prince.

[Ian Liew]

3. Yeung Gor's ancestors had waged war against the Juchen in past generations.

3) Bleeeh. How many people in China has the surname of 'Yang'? They doesn't all come from the famous Yang family.

Yang Tiexin was a descendant of Yang Zaixing, who was active in the war against the Jin under Yuefei's banner.