Best and Worst "Retcons" in Wuxia History

[Ken Cheng]

Those of us who read American superhero comic books (i.e. "Spider-Man", "Batman", "X-Men", "Superman", etc.) have a term called "retcon", which is short for "retroactive continuity editing". A retcon occurs when an author has written a work (i.e. a comic book, novel, movie, or TV series), the work becomes famous and popular and establishes a history for its characters and events, then rewrites that history in a later version. For example, in the first edition of LOCH, it was North Beggar Hung 7 Gung who invented the Hong Lung 18 Palms, but in the second and third editions of LOCH, this was retconned so that Hong Lung 18 Palms was invented by an earlier Beggar's Union Chief. Now that Jin Yong has edited his novels twice, what are your favorite and least favorite retcons?

[Moinllieon]

My favorite is how he has fleshed out the relationship between Mei Chao Feng and Chen Yun Feng (as well as getting rid of the near slander he had on Yi Zhi Ping). My least favorite is what they did to Spiderman.. (oh wait, umm.. JY.. right. Uh.. Duan Yu and who he ended up marrying).

[Du Gu seeking a win]

Originally posted by Ken Cheng
Those of us who read American superhero comic books (i.e. "Spider-Man", "Batman", "X-Men", "Superman", etc.) have a term called "retcon", which is short for "retroactive continuity editing". A retcon occurs when an author has written a work (i.e. a comic book, novel, movie, or TV series), the work becomes famous and popular and establishes a history for its characters and events, then rewrites that history in a later version. For example, in the first edition of LOCH, it was North Beggar Hung 7 Gung who invented the Hong Lung 18 Palms, but in the second and third editions of LOCH, this was retconned so that Hong Lung 18 Palms was invented by an earlier Beggar's Union Chief. Now that Jin Yong has edited his novels twice, what are your favorite and least favorite retcons?

IIRC the 1st edition doesn't mention that HQG invented 18 Palms, it says that 3 (?) stances of 18 Palms were lost and HQG had to re-discover those lost stances. I think GJ refined those lost stances later on.

[PJ]

my fav would be all the gory/bloody/disgusting details he got rid of in DGSD.

[Candide]

Originally posted by PJ
my fav would be all the gory/bloody/disgusting details he got rid of in DGSD.

What details ?

[PJ]

Originally posted by Candide
What details ?

there was more gore in the 1st edition. he edited some of it out (thankfully for me ).

[duguxiaojing]

IIRC the 1st edition doesn't mention that HQG invented 18 Palms, it says that 3 (?) stances of 18 Palms were lost and HQG had to re-discover those lost stances. I think GJ refined those lost stances later on.

Really? I remember reading someones post that in the
the first edit 7G actually created HL18Z maybe Rabdi could you verify since you've read first edit? In ROCH second edit(i think )from qiqi.com its mentioned that Gj modified the palms like H7G had done years ago. I thought that was the diffrence between the the first and second edition?

[rabadi]

I think my 1st version is the same with Du Gu seeking a win's 1st version. H7Q only reinvented 3 missing palms. And it's true that GJ refined the palms by incorporating 9 Yin.

(OT: I suddenly remember Stephen Chow's King of Beggars where he reinvented the last missing palm in a flash )

[Candide]

Originally posted by PJ
there was more gore in the 1st edition. he edited some of it out (thankfully for me ).

There was ? I read it many times and couldn't notice a thing Sorry didn't know that you're a chick Maybe we blokes are too used to gore and violence.

[rabadi]

Quote from http://www.geocities.com/jyheroes/article12.html

Blood 'n guts :

The revised edition seems to have been censored somewhat to remove some of the more gory parts.

In the revised edition, Nam Hoi Gnok San was fond of snapping peoples' necks. In the old edition, he would gouge his opponent's heart out live with his bare hands and eat it. He also twisted peoples' heads right off their shoulders.

When MHC discovered Yip Yi Leung's collection of dead babies in the revised version, they were said to be 'free of injuries' and that she didn't know how YYL killed them. In the old version, Yip Yi Leung had suc-ked their blood dry. Later, when Hui Juk first bumped into YYL, she said that 'everyone calls babies "sum gon bo bui" (lit. heart liver precious), so their heart and liver must be particularly tasty', and promptly tore the baby's heart and liver out and ate them. When Mo Yong *** heard about it, he immediately moved to tear her innards out, but was blocked by Ding Chun Chau. However, MYF accidentally tore the clothing from the front of her chest. Far from being embarrassed, she took the opportunity to show off, infuriating Wong Yuk Yin with sly suggestions that MYF was a desparate sex fiend.

[Ken Cheng]

That quote seems to show Mo Yung F'uk in an uncharacteristically positive light. Mo Yung F'uk is known as a villain in DGSD, yet his angry reaction to Yip 2 Leung's savage butchery of children seems to indicate that MYF did have a sense of decency after all.

[Candide]

Ah yeah I remember reading that. Didn't know that JY got rid of these details in the 2nd edition. He shouldn't !

[CC]

Dammit! I missed all that! Bah! Whats wuxia without a healthy dose of blood and guts.

The part about her showing off after getting the clothes ripped off sounds like a typical Gu Long female villian.

[Temujin]

Wow, there are several interesting changes from the first edition to the second edition, according to that article by Kwok.

Here's more interesting quotes

Xu Zhu

After Tin San Tung Lo and Lei Chau Sui lost their fighting ability, they engaged in a verbal martial-arts match reminiscent of Au Yeung Fung and Hung 7 Gung in LOCH. They both took turns teaching Hui Juk their most powerful and 'yum duk' moves. It was these moves that could kill people in a horrid fashion that caused the Shaolin monks to frown later on when Hui Juk used them in his fight with Kau Mo Zhi. Tin San 6 Yeung Jeung on the other hand was relatively yang and peaceful - more in line with Shaolin concepts.

Yau Tan Zhi:

There is a large section missing from the revised edition regarding Yau Tan Zhi. I believe that this was the material that Gnai Hong wrote in Jin Yong's place. I'll summarise this later when I have the time.

I wonder what part of the story was missing or eliminated by JY

Wong Yu Yin:

Wong Yu Yin had a much cruder name in the old edition - Wong Yuk Yin (as in 'jade swallow').

She could also fight to a very limited extent (until she had her inner power absorbed by Duen Yu), and was not just purely a perpetual damsel in distress.

Her family relationship to Mo Yung *** also differs. In the revised edition, Mo Yung *** called Madame Wong 'Kau Mo', which refers specifically to one's mother's brother's wife. In the old edition, MYF called her 'Goo Mo', which refers to one's father's sister. In other words, Madame Wong should be Mo Yung Bok's sister. Indeed, she said that 'she was no longer a member of the Mo Yung family'. No explanation was offered whatsoever as to why WYY's appearance was so close to the statue's.

Wow... even WYY knows martial arts

Duen Yu's mother Do Bak Fung had a different surname - Shu Bak Fung.

The four evils in the old edition were part of the 7 wu-lin elders, known collectively as the 'sam sin sei gnok' (3 gentles, 4 wickeds). However, JY never actually said who the 3 gentles were, and appeared to change course halfway through the novel, such that the most reknowned fighters became 'northern Kiu Fung, southern Mo Yong' again.

Ah Bik could use her music in inner-power competitions and to free sealed pressure-points remotely. When they were held hostage by Kau Mor Chi, she used her music to discretely free Duen Yu, who seriously injured KMC in a suprise '6 mak san gim' attack that skewered his shoulder.

Ah Bik was Hong Gong Ling's student (So Sing Hor's oldest student). She had accompanied the 4 Mo Yong generals to Shaolin searching for Ah Chu, and was also captured along with the others by Ding Chun Chau. The Mo Yong family left her behind with her sifu and we don't see her again until the very end.

There are numerous changes in the names of minor characters such as the students of the Mo Leung sect, that aren't really worth mentioning.

The paralysing 'bei so ching fung' gas favoured by the Sai Ha army was originally called 'hung fa herng mo' (red flower fragrant mist).

Ah Chu and Ah Bik did not have the funny accent in the old editions.

In the old editions of Jin Yong novels in general, it has been repeatedly mentioned that the victims of 1 yeung finger do not suffer any pain (even when they are killed by it), but feel comfortable, warm and lazy.

Ding Chun Chau and Yip Yi Leung seemed to have a past history together, with YYL calling DCC 'Chun Chau gor gor' in the most 'yuk ma' fashion possible. When Hui Juk found out who his mother was, he was afraid for a moment that his father might be DCC!

And there are a lot of more changes in Duan Yu's part of story.

Read that article yourself

[Du Gu seeking a win]

Originally posted by Temujin
Yau Tan Zhi:

There is a large section missing from the revised edition regarding Yau Tan Zhi. I believe that this was the material that Gnai Hong wrote in Jin Yong's place. I'll summarise this later when I have the time.

Ni Kuang wrote about 40 000 characters in DGSD, most of them was eradicated by JY in the 2nd edition, leaving the part about how Ah Zhi was blinded and her fate afterwards.

[PJ]

Originally posted by Candide
There was ? I read it many times and couldn't notice a thing Sorry didn't know that you're a chick Maybe we blokes are too used to gore and violence.

Well, I'm used to violence in wuxia, I just don't particularly enjoy it. But I don't loathe it either. And you're a moron if you think all guys like violence Mwahaha

[charbydis]

Not sure, but is the inclusion of WCY's "love affair" with LCY in ROCH, which was not in LOCH, a retcon? If it is, I like it very much.

The worst? I been accepting that WYS is a one-woman man for all my life that I can't get it into my head that he would go for MCF!

[Candide]

Originally posted by PJ
And you're a moron if you think all guys like violence Mwahaha

Guys all do. Only girls don't, and most of the time they are just pretending.

[Laviathan]

- The 3d edition of "Outer Stories of Flying Fox" is... perfect.

- 3d edition of Ode to Galantry: the maid of Shi Zhongyu, Shi Jian, does not die. *GOOD*

- In the 1st edition of Smiling Proud Wanderer, Qu Feiyan does not get killed. In the 2d edition, Jin Yong had her die. *ME NOT LIKE*

[PJ]

The 3d edition of "Outer Stories of Flying Fox" is... perfect

Now I wonder what the positive changes are