Heavenly Sword and Dragon Sabre.

[Athena]

Ji XiaoFu told her teacher when she met Yang Xiao, Ji described him as a man in his early forties.

[Floo..]

Hey, 40 years old men has their own charm!!!

No doubt that Yang Xiao is charismatic, mature and charming. And mebbe XiaoFu unconsciously looks for a 'father-figure'??

But trust me, 40 years old man can be very attractive <IMG SRC="smilies/kiss.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/kiss.gif" border="0"> , especially compared w/ immature Yin Lei Ting.

[charbydis]

Yup! Yup! I agree! <IMG SRC="smilies/blob.gif" border="0">

Anyway, I think Yang Xiao was the only man that Ji Xiao Fu had ever had close contact with since he was stalking her for days. Yan Li Ting and she didn't really see other much except for clan meetings. Besides, he was very different from all her martial brothers so maybe that caught her attention. <IMG SRC="smilies/kiss.gif" border="0">

Yang Bu Hui was 18/19 at the end of the novel. Say Yang Xiao was 44 when he met Ji Xiao Fu. That makes him 62/63 at the end of the novel. <IMG SRC="smilies/love.gif" border="0">

Mei Jue was in her mid 40's at Butterfly Valley, which was about 7 years from the end of the novel. So that makes her in her early 50's at the end of the novel if she didn't die. So Yang Xiao is slightly older than Mie Jue.

Besides Mie Jue was an elite in her generation so it would not have been impossible for her to be the Emei leader at a teenager. Just my thoughts. :dunno:

But just a question, what si teh age of Yang Bu Hui. Yang Xiao and Ji Xiao Fu met the same year as the time when The Golden-Haired Lion King, Zhang Cui Shan and Yan Su Su got stranded on the island. So therefore teh year than Zhang Wu Ji was conceived.

Accordign to Ji Xiao Fu, she stayed with Yang Xiao for only several months so Yang Bu Hui should be about the same age as Zhang Wu Ji. But in Butterfly Valley, she was distinctly a few years younger than him. How could this be? <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/dizzy.gif" border="0">

[Laviathan]

In the year that Zhang Cuishan and Yin Susu were abducted by Golden Lion, Miejue sent Ji Xiaofu and other disciples to look for Dragon Sabre. Ji Xiaofu must have wandered the martial arts world for a few years (four years?) and then met Yang Xiao. According to Ji Xiaofu, Yang Xiao looked like a man of 40 something.

The Zhang Family returned to the Central Plains after 10 years of living on Ice Fire Island. Zhang Wuji saw Ji Xiaofu for the first time on Wudang Mountain, when his parents commited suicide. Ji Xiaofu then told Yin Liting that she wants to break their engagement.

Wuji stayed 2 years on Wudang Mountain where Zhang Sanfeng tried to cure his disease. Zhang Sanfeng then went to Shaolin with Wuji, and on their way home they befriended Chang Ruchun and Zhou Zhiruo. Chang Ruchun brought Wuji to Butterfly Valley.

Wuji stayed in Butterfly Valley for 3 years, when Ji Xiaofu and the then 10 year old Yang Buhui arrived at the valley. After the death of Ji Xiaofu, Wuji and Buhui traveled to Kunlun Mountain in search for Yang Xiao. I think it took them about a year for two children to travel from South China to the Western Regions. When Wuji and Buhui met Yang Xiao, he still looked like a man beginning 40's... Maybe due to his internal energy that he still looked so young?

Wuji stayed at the mansion of Zhu Changling for a few months and then fell into the ravine. He found Jiuyang Zhenjing in a cave. Wuji stayed in the cave to practice Jiuyang Shengong. When he came out of the cave, Wuji met his cousin Zhu'er and he told her that he is now 21 years old. So he stayed in the cave for 5 years. So Yang Buhui should be 16 at that time.

The story continued to the point Xiaochao leaves Wuji to become the Leader of the Persian Ming Sect. At that point, Wuji thought: "Xiaochao has been serving me for almost two years now." Wuji, Zhou Zhiruo and Xie Xun remained on an island for a few months. Zhao Min took Wuji away from his wedding with Zhou Zhiruo to search for Xie Xun.

When Wuji and Zhao Min arrived at Songshan Mountain, they stayed at the home of Yi Sanniang and her husband. One night, Zhou Zhiruo came to the house and killed the old couple. She fought with Zhang Wuji and left. Wuji then thought: "Amazing that, within a half year, she could make such progress in martial arts!" So, in my opinion, at the end of the novel, a period of about one year has passed by since Xiaochao left. Zhang Wuji should be 24 years old at the end of the novel, Yang Buhui about 19 (as Wang Chongyang already mentioned).

Somehow, I always thought that Yang Xiao was about 50 years old at the end of the novel, but if he really was in his early 40's when he raped Ji Xiaofu, then Athena and Wang Chongyang were right and Yang Xiao indeed should be over 60 at the end of HSDS.

[Laviathan]

Furthermore, at the end of the novel, Jin Yong wrote: "Although Yang Xiao is the official leader of the Ming Sect, but due to his ELDERLY AGE and bad reputation, power slowly moved into the hands of GeneraL Zhu Yuanzhang." So, Yang Xiao should have been quite old when he was appointed leader of the Ming Sect by Zhang Wuji.

But the strange thing is that, if Miejue is 40-45 at the time of her meeting with Ji Xiaofu in Butterfly Valley, than Yang Xiao should be about ten years older than Miejue... because when he raped Ji Xiaofu, he was already in his early 40's, and when Yang Buhui came to Butterfly Valley she was a ten year old girl.

But at the time of his duel with Guhongzi, Yang Xiao was a new fighter on the martial arts scene of about 20 years old. Miejue at the time was already the leader of the Emei School. I think it is impossible for a 10-15 year girl to be the leader of the No. 3 martial arts style of China, no matter how talented she might be. I mean, how good can the martial arts of a 13-year-old kid be? Remember that Miejue managed to retrieve the lost Heave'n Sword from the Palace of the Prince of Ruyang, Chakan Timur (Zhao Min's father).

Maybe Jin Yong made a mistake, just like he did with Huang Rong's birth?

[Wang Chong Yang]

I think non of us is wrong. Jin Yong is the old blur that make us all blur !! He has a habit of mixing up the age of the characters in story. He never keep a close accounting of the age of different individual when he write story.

Okay lets assume Ji met Yang Xiao 4 years after Zhang Cui Shan disappear. Assume ZWJ is 3-4 years older than Yang Bu Hui. Lets count. ZWJ is about 3-4 yrs old when Ji got rape by Yang in his early 40s. By end of HSDS, Yang Xiao is 24 + 40 plus - 3 or 4 years. AGAIN, he is about 59 to 63 years old.

Off course, Yang Xiao like to KEEP moustache and this may make him look older than he is when he rape Ji. But since he is actually not that old, he would look like a man in his late 40s when ZWJ met him when he is 17 to 18 years old. WHY? A man in his 50s probably has white hair or white moustache or balding, Yang Xiao jet black hair and handsome face probably make him look 40s although it is 12-14 years after Ji first saw Yang Xiao who is suppose to look 40 plus some 12 to 14 years before.

This explain why Yang look 40 plus when he rape Ji and when Bu Hui is 12-13 years old, he still looks like 40 plus.

The best reason is he look older then he is when Ji first met him because he has lots of moustache but since he is not that old, he still long young without white hair when he met his own daughter 12-14 years later :P

[charbydis]

I don't remember ZWJ or JXF mentioning he had a moustache, so perhaps that's why he looks younger. <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"> But ZWJ only said that he was middleaged, but what is middle aged? 30-40, 40 plus?

Anyway, Wong Chong Yang, I agree with you. Jin Yong can sometimes muck up teh age. I think once someone who died apperaed again several chapters later. <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

[babybunny]

The dragon sabre belongs to Guo Jing and Huang Rong? I thought that it belonged to Jing Mao Shi Wang? Didn't he retrieve it at the ice island in the beginning? And doesn't the yi tian jian belong to the Shi Tai of E Mei Pai?

[Athena]

To babybunny:No, Guo Jing and Huang Rong ordered the sword and sabre to be forged and they put their manuals in the sword and sabre. Guo Xiang got the Heavenly Sword, which she gave to her pupil FengLing Shi Tai when she died.
When FengLing died she passed on to Mie Jue Shi Tai.
Guo Xiang was the founder of the E Mei School.
Guo PoLu, the son of Guo and Huang, got the sabre. But died during the invasion of XiangYang so the sabre had different owners ever since. In the end after at least 50 to 70 years in between Xie Xun got it from The TianYing Sect (The Celestial Eagle Sect).

[junzi]

how thick were the manuals? i always wondered how they could possibly be hidden inside the sword and sabre.

[athlonkmf]

i've always wondered how the hell GJ and WY became master forgers and chemist.. Knowing what and how to mix up metal and do such a good forge. Making two weapons sharp enough to cut anything and strong enough to be unbreakable.


Also.. wasnt' there a time where the dragon saber and heavenly sword were used to fight eachother? Why didn't it break then?

[expression]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="80%" bgcolor="#dcdcdc" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="1"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" bgcolor="#DCDCDC"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#eeeeee"><font size="1">Originally posted by junzi:
<STRONG>how thick were the manuals? i always wondered how they could possibly be hidden inside the sword and sabre.</STRONG></font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wonder about that all the time too. Also how Chen Xuanfeng carved the stolen scrolls right on his skin, did he use a mirror and could he possibly write that small... <IMG SRC="smilies/yikes.gif" border="0">

[junzi]

i'm also curious to know how the Xuan Ming Er Lao caused 'cold poison' to be formed in their victims after using their Xuan Ming Shen Zhang to hit them...? how is 'cold poison' formed anyway?

[bigstick]

Hi, everyone, I'm new here. Just discovered this forum. It'll be cool to discuss Jin Yong with teh rest of you.

Wondering if anyone here reads the HSDS comic book released by ComicsOne here in the US? It's got awesome artwork by Wing Shing Ma. If anyone's interested, you can check it out at your local comic shiop or online at www.comicsone.com

So far only 6 issues have been released. This is my favorite comic now. I can put away all the American and Japanese stuff now. Their Return of the Condor Heroes is pretty good too.

I didn't see anyone discussing them so thought I would just mention it.

<font size="1">[ June 07, 2003: Message edited by: bigstick ]</font>

[Tian Cai]

first of all yang xiao nevered raped ji xiao fu. Cost she did'nt retalliate and when she was unconcious befroe they kissed she was suffering for the cold poison and all he did was hugg her the whole night i would'nt called hugging a person for a course rape.

[Guo Xiang]

Originally posted by Kikyo
I'm not an expert in metallurgy, but how on Earth was there enough metal to make TWO weapons from the melted remains of Yang Guo's sword? We must remember that the Dragon Sabre was quite a big weapon and the Heavenly sword was in no way a diminutive little short sword either. I'm just thinking that, if they had to mix another type of metal to compensate for shortage of materials, how can they ensure that the new alloy used for the Heavenly Sword and Dragon Sabre will be as strong as the orginally pure metal of Yang Guo's sword? Wasn't the type of metal of Yang Guo's sword supposed to pretty rare due to it's unique strength and sharpness?

I don't know, but in Lawrence Ng's version of HSDS, it was explained that one of the weapons was smelted with gold. So I guess the gold made up the rest of the properties which the Xuantie couldn't fill up.

[Yang Guo]

Originally posted by Guo Xiang
I don't know, but in Lawrence Ng's version of HSDS, it was explained that one of the weapons was smelted with gold. So I guess the gold made up the rest of the properties which the Xuantie couldn't fill up.

I thought it was some kind of rare metal from the west
*shrugs*

[Son of Light]

MJ claims that YG did not give the Heavy Sword to GJ and HR, he gived in to GX.
Although I think this is totally stupid(giving such a thing to a girl) and I don't trust anything MJ siad anyway...
Just to be sure.
YG, did you give the sword to Xiang or GJ?

[eeyore]

woah, what a revelation thread!!!! Love it!

I was surprise to find out that ji xiao fu was raped by yang xiao ( I assume that's what the novel said) because the HSDS 2002 adaptation doesn't show it that way...

Very interesting with the discussion of the age! and yet it doesn't reataliate at the end.. (not that I'm reading the original novel, just base on the experts posting)

I have the same question as others, how could they put the book inside the sabre? how small? or it's just a piece of written leather? who wrote it? and where di YG get the sword from? (I don't remember any sword from the adaptation )

I wish someone can come back to this thread and answer my question

[ProtoM]

they did not placed the whole 9 Yin manual inside the the sword and sabre. dont get the wrong impression because if it is a FULL manual then ZZR will be very very powerful. i believe only part of the 9 Yin manual was in their (9 Yin Bone Claw) and the stratagist book by who i forgot.