NBA Discussion

[James Ko]

Originally posted by Long
Maybe he was friendly like that at Air Canada Centre because it was his home court and the USA is his market so he needed to behave. Who knows, he might have just had a bad day or weeks in Australia. But he looked very 'grumpy' at times and a little 'arrogant' at other times. He was respectful to the kids, but less so with adults and opposing players before and after the game. He seemed to rub people up the wrong way at functions when all people wanted to do was introduce themselves and say hello.

When he dunk over that guy he was pretty cocky about it. It was a good highlight move but not necessary needed for US to win the game.

[The Janitor]

Originally posted by James Ko
When he dunk over that guy he was pretty cocky about it. It was a good highlight move but not necessary needed for US to win the game.

lol

[James Ko]

Nothing more embrassing then having someone's "balls" on your face...

Thx for the big Janitor

[duguxiaojing]

Anyone know why every1 calls that dunk the "lipton"???? I dont get it...

[Eliar Swiftfire]

Hm. Heard something about Peja Stojakovic wanting to leave the Sac Kings,

[- L1n -]

who cares it's only the best 3 pt shooter in the game lol, nah hokes peja should stay.

[spooks]

Originally posted by Eliar Swiftfire
Hm. Heard something about Peja Stojakovic wanting to leave the Sac Kings,

Peja has been the biggest choker during the playoffs the last 3 years. Can't blame him for wanting a trade though, Kings need some changes if they want to contend.

[James Ko]

I always thought Reggie was the best 3 pointer shooter in the game... and probably one of the best clutch shooter in the game... but too bad he is old.

Could Peja be unhappy because Divac left for LA... it would be interesting to see if Peja want to sign for Lakers...

[Eliar Swiftfire]

Yeah, the guy's usually horrible during playoffs. I mean, did he shoot better than 40% in the entire playoffs at all?

But then, we can always blame it on Webber. The guy was deferring to Webber, forgeting the fact that it was HE who was carrying the team all the while during Webber's absence.

BTW: Iverson and Duncan are co-captains of the US bball team.

[James Ko]

Originally posted by Eliar Swiftfire
BTW: Iverson and Duncan are co-captains of the US bball team.

Yup... so this will be interesting... will we see the bad boy AI or the inspirational AI

Too bad Kidd or Malone couldn't make it because of injuries

[- L1n -]

more like to bad Vince carter could'nt make, i wanted to see china v us and vince try to do that lipton dunk on yaop ming i rkn yao would of sacked wacked him.lol

[Eliar Swiftfire]

Allen Iverson is seated in an uncomfortable metal chair, crashing after a frenetic two-hour practice, his skinny legs protruding outward like landing struts on an airliner. He is sporting typical Iverson gear. Droopy shorts down to his knees. Braided hair. The sweat band. The tattoos that dance up and down his arms and legs.

Iverson's reputation is so charbroiled, he has singe marks on his sneakers. You know what I mean. The look that says hard-core. The arrests. The you-talkin'-'bout-practice attitude.

"I think some people, especially in the media -- even though they are wrong -- have seen me as a symbol of what's wrong with the NBA," he says, And if there was anyone who embodied the anti-Iverson, it was Lakers star Kobe Bryant. Clean-cut. Well-spoken. From a traditional nuclear family, owner of a crossover dribble and crossover appeal. Good guy, it was thought. How could that smile ever go wrong, we believed.

But a funny thing happened on the way to Kobe's face landing on cereal boxes, and Iverson's on Cops. The truth about Kobe, it turns out, is far more complicated. We now know might have used a smile and proper use of the English language to shield a sinister side. We now know that Kobe is a gold-plated phony. By his admission, he has cheated on his wife. He's power-hungry. He is not a team player. He broke up a dynasty so he could be the star.

Iverson is no angel, of course. Guns, homophobic rap songs, a lack of respect for authority, and a legendary loathing of practice are a part of Iverson's rep. But in an instant, in the second it took Kobe to make a series of disastrous decisions, an alternate universe was created.

One in which Iverson is co-captain of the Olympic team, rebuilding his image, assist by assist, conversation by conversation, and Kobe is now the bad boy, the poster cad for everything that is wrong with professional basketball.

"What's interesting about that," Iverson explained to me, "is that I came into the league with baggage, and he didn't. So I had a lot more to overcome in terms of perceptions. Now, he has to overcome those things."

The difference between the two men is that Kobe puts on an act, and Iverson is real. You may not like Iverson, but nothing is hidden. It is all in the open, like his tattoos, and in a way, that makes Iverson a more trustworthy person than Kobe, and to me, imminently more likeable.

"I guess it's fair to look at Kobe as a bad guy until he is found guilty or not guilty," Iverson said. "But we really don't know what happened in that hotel room. Only he does and the woman does."

"But I think he has an idea of what it is like to be me," Iverson added. "He is innocent until proven guilty, but I think people will always wonder what he is really like."

Lakers fans still see Kobe as cuddly. Where Iverson's tattoos draw ire, Kobe's infidelity draws yawns. It seems as if Kobe has a force-field that minimizes attacks on his character, to the point where the Lakers are entrusting the future of their franchise on Bryant -- who has shown he cannot be trusted. Meanwhile, they let solid citizen Shaquille O'Neal stomp to Miami. His only lapses have been nibbling on too many cheeseburgers.

You can make mistakes -- Lord knows I've made mine. But do you learn from them? That's the key. Iverson seems to be slowly grasping the concepts of responsibility and repercussions.

Is Kobe?


mike.freeman

[James Ko]

I thought AI mature... while Kobe just hit puberty j/k

Actually I have never had problem with AI's bad image... I kind of feel sorry for him. But if you look at his mom who is more scary... swearing at the media and fans... no wonder AI has this attitude problem, look at his role model.

[Eliar Swiftfire]

Well, her mom gave birth to him when she was 15, and raised him by herself, so all the while they have a rather poor background. Unlike Kobe, whose dad was an NBA star, and that he got to live in Italy during his childhood and early teens.

[AlecnVicky]

hey guys, sorry to jump right in, but i'm incredibly behind on updates/news, and just need lil clraifications. (please).


----I take it, Kobe's stayign with the Lakers right? (yes, i'm one of those hard core LA fans, and yes...... Kobe's)

----So wat really did happened b/w LA and Shaq? was there a big fight or something? the last i heard was, Shaq just wanted a higher raise, or soemthing, and then decides it's a move he's gotta come to. But when i read the headline at the nest, hmmm i was confused at wether they had a big dispute and so shaq left. (pitty, he was one of my fav LA players).

----and what happened to Fisher? is he still w/ the Lakers? i didn't even see his name on the players list

----wat, i swear i thouhgt i heard Malone was retiring. but his name was still there.

I'm just really curious, eheh if any of u know (despite ur distastes for LA or of course, Kobe.) Please tell me. thanks.

[spooks]

I take it, Kobe's stayign with the Lakers right? (yes, i'm one of those hard core LA fans, and yes...... Kobe's)

7 year deal worth 136 million, he'll be in yellow and purple for a while. We can finally see what Kobe can do with his own team.

So wat really did happened b/w LA and Shaq?

Shaq wanted a huge extension, Buss didnt give him one so he was traded to the Heat for Odom/Butler/Grant/1st rounder. Was a decent trade, we got some talented young players in return for Diesel.

and what happened to Fisher? is he still w/ the Lakers?

Signed with Golden State, 6 years 37 million.

i swear i thouhgt i heard Malone was retiring

He had a Player option which he chose to opt out of. So as of right now he is an unrestricted free agent. He hasn't decide whether he wants to play next year or retire.

Think that's all of them.

[Eliar Swiftfire]

Iverson and Brown pass around praise


By GENE FRENETTE
The Times-Union
For all those roller-coaster seasons in Philadelphia, they alternated as fire and ice. The player was a Generation X ball wizard and free spirit. The coach was a stickler for fundamentals, discipline and everyone abiding by the team rules.

Naturally, Allen Iverson and Larry Brown clashed. Sometimes too publicly for their own good.


Team USA guard Allen Iverson makes a steal during the team's scrimmage against the Puerto Rico Senior National Team Thursday afternoon at the UNF Arena.
RICK WILSON/The Times-Union

The five-time All-Star and Hall-of-Fame coach co-existed out of a burning desire to win an NBA championship for the 76ers. But their six-year run ended without a title last June, with Brown packing up to coach the Detroit Pistons, partially out of disdain for Iverson's penchant to do things his way.

Following a year's separation, Iverson and Brown have reunited as members of the 2004 U.S. Olympic basketball team. And by all appearances, it feels so. ... comfortable.

Time away from Brown has made the 29-year-old Iverson appreciate what he had in his old boss.

"It was a maturity process for me in trying to understand that he wasn't just trying to get on me," said Iverson after Wednesday's practice at the University of North Florida Arena. "He wanted me to be the best player that I can be. He always told me that he wouldn't feel good if he didn't get all of my potential out of me. It took time, and maybe it was too late, but I got the message.

"One thing you got to learn, and it took a long time for me, is that he's not trying to embarrass you or hurt your feelings. He's trying to coach you. You got to recognize what he's trying to do. To me, he's the best coach in the world."

This week, the compliments between Brown and Iverson are flowing. They actually moved past their differences last summer when they were in Puerto Rico, leading the USA senior national team to an 8-0 record in the Olympic qualifying tournament. But now that they've had a full season apart -- with Brown winning his first NBA championship and Iverson enduring a knee injury that caused him to miss a career-high 34 games -- they look back with regret that there was so much acrimony in their relationship.

Its low point came during that infamous sound bite two years ago when Iverson lamented, 11 times in one minute, the importance of practicing. Not the best way to win over a coach who equates practice almost on par with breathing.

"A lot of that was mostly me, not being mature at times," Iverson said. "[Brown] knows the game 1,000 times more than I do. I always took criticism that he gave me the wrong way when, all the time, he was trying to help me."

When told that Iverson blamed their differences on his own immaturity, Brown took up for his ex-player, saying: "I don't know about that. You don't always do the right thing by your players. You know, I could have changed some things early on in our relationship that maybe would have helped him."

There are varying theories as to why this once combustible pair seems so harmonious now. Some insiders with the USA national team believe that it's a matter of time healing old wounds. Others feel that Iverson has gained perspective that he didn't have when Brown was in his ear on a daily basis.

Gregg Popovich, the USA assistant coach and San Antonio Spurs head coach, knows that any long-term relationship between a coach and star player can get testy at times. It's just a question of working out the differences.

"Their relationship is very similar to what I have with [Olympian and Spurs center] Tim Duncan," Popovich said. "Tim has opinions and comes to me and asks, 'Why am I doing this?' or 'Have you thought about this?' He always does it in a respectful way. I think people just expect Allen [Iverson] to be more volatile, but he's highly intelligent. When you're part of a family, you grow together."

Iverson and Brown have grown in ways that might have never materialized had they always been on separate teams. With this reunion transpiring in a quest for Olympic gold, an opportunity that might have eluded Iverson had New Jersey Nets guard Jason Kidd not skipped the Summer Games, neither party is interested in reliving a stormy past.

Two days after the Pistons won the title, Iverson called his old coach to congratulate him, though the conversation didn't last long.

"I called late at night and [Brown] was a bit short because I think I woke him up, but I was real happy for him," Iverson said.

Brown knows that his connection with Iverson invariably centers on their differences, but he prefers to focus on the good parts of their relationship.

"I wouldn't be coaching this Olympic team if it wasn't for the contributions he made in the years I spent with him," Brown said. "You have ups and downs. I always wanted [Iverson] to do things, do them perfect, do it right. But I never questioned his will to win.

"He had loyalty toward me. I love the kid. I might be disappointed some days in him, just like I think he probably had issues with me. But that doesn't mean I'm not proud of the time I spent with him or proud of the fact that he's on this team."

The fact is Brown needs the dynamic, rebellious point guard, possibly more than ever. The United States has a 24-0 record since NBA players were part of the Olympics. No way does Brown want to be part of a team that fails to win a gold medal, but that possibility exists with Team USA sending the youngest pro-laden squad in history to Athens.

Much of this team's ability to succeed will depend on Iverson, the only player completely familiar with Brown's system. He must make sure the offense flows efficiently despite just three weeks of preparation time.

The inside-outside combination of Duncan and Iverson will be a critical component to the Americans' success. But Iverson, elected co-captain with Duncan, is the one looking for redemption. The Sixers finished 33-49 last season and Iverson was criticized, he says unfairly, for not gutting through a knee injury.

"I was teasing Allen that he's the oldest guy on this team," Brown said. "That's never happened to him in his career. He's accepted that responsibility [of being co-captain]. Watching him now, he's really trying to sacrifice some of the things he does so well to try to make everybody comfortable with what we're trying to do. But he's such a unique player, I can't tie him down where he has to worry about running a club.

"He's got the ability to score and we've got to use that because he will pass it when you're open. You don't want to take away what he does so well."

For his part, the point guard known as The Answer is saying all the right things. Iverson and Brown aren't about to let the past get in the way of the future goal.

So the veteran player and the veteran coach keep tossing each other bouquets, ensuring that bygones will be bygones.

"I learned a lot from him and, hopefully, he learned a lot from me," Iverson said. "If it wasn't for [Brown], I wouldn't be the player that I am today. ...

"Our relationship became a lot better when we weren't coach and player [on the same NBA team]. We became more friends."

Still, Iverson says he would welcome the opportunity for Brown to coach him again in the NBA. Brown chuckled when asked for a response, saying: "You're going to get me in trouble."

[Eliar Swiftfire]

Vince zeroes in on joining Knicks



BY FRANK ISOLA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

The mere thought of Vince Carter wearing a Knicks uniform once seemed as far-fetched as Shaquille O'Neal ending up in Miami.
But in today's NBA, where the league's most dominant player can be traded without the Miami Heat having to give up its best player, anything is possible, including Carter ending up in New York.

Despite the declaration Wednesday from Toronto general manager Rob Babcock that Carter will return next season, a person close to the Raptors' All-Star swingman insists that Carter is trying to force a trade to New York.

Carter has refused to comment on his future for the past few weeks, but that could change tomorrow night following Carter's annual charity all-star game in Toronto. According to the source, Carter is expected to announce publicly that he wants to be traded.

Carter's agent, Mark Steinberg, did not return phone calls yesterday. Knicks president Isiah Thomas, attending a team function in New Jersey, refused to comment on the Carter rumors.

In Babcock's most recent meeting with his franchise player, the first-year GM came away convinced that Carter was committed to playing for the Raptors next season.

"I don't see a problem; we're on the same page as far as him playing on our basketball team, I feel very comfortable about that," Babcock told The Toronto Sun. "I see him coming to camp and I don't see him being distracted by anything."

However, the same source said that the Raptors have explored the possibility of moving Carter and talked about shipping him to the Sonics for Ray Allen. Carter, however, has no interest in moving to Seattle and is following the lead of both O'Neal and Tracy McGrady by requesting a trade to the team of his choice.

The one significant difference is that O'Neal and McGrady had more leverage because they were entering the final year of their contracts. Carter still has four years remaining on his deal. O'Neal and McGrady dictated the terms of their removal from Los Angeles and Orlando. respectively, in the past month.

The real challenge would be coming up with an attractive package for Carter, the leading vote-getter among All-Stars last season. Toronto would consider Stephon Marbury, but Thomas, the original head of basketball operations for the expansion Raptors, wants to hold on to his point guard. Thomas is also reluctant to trade Tim Thomas.

Carter is still regarded as an elite player, but the Knicks have to hope that he still has as much clout as O'Neal and McGrady to force Toronto's hand.

"The last thing Toronto wants is for things to turn ugly," the source said. "Vince likes New York; he has a relationship with Isiah and he wants to play there."

[Eliar Swiftfire]

Nets: Kidd ready to walk
Friday, July 30, 2004
BY DAVE D'ALESSANDRO
Star-Ledger Staff
The Bruce Ratner Fire Sale continued in earnest yesterday, when the Nets gave away yet another piece of their franchise -- and their history -- by shipping Kerry Kittles to the Los Angeles Clippers for virtually nothing.

Which raises the question: Just how low can the Nets go?

This low: According to a team official, Jason Kidd returned from his Mexican vacation yesterday and immediately requested a meeting with management at Ratner's earliest convenience, at which time the Nets' captain is expected to demand a trade.

And to further illustrate the goals of the new ownership group, a close friend of Alonzo Mourning yesterday disclosed that the disabled center wants to attempt a comeback, but has been informed by the team that his services are no longer desired, as it would rather lop his salary off the cap after next season.

Team president Rod Thorn, who in an afternoon conference call with reporters sounded as though he had his soul ripped out by a savage tax collector, attempted to spin the Kittles trade into a positive move that will allow his depleted team to fill the gaping voids at other positions while saving the $9.8 million that remained on Kittles' contract.

"The purpose for us was very simple: We're obviously trying to restructure our team, and it's going to make it much easier after we make this deal," said Thorn, whose team received a second-round draft pick in the deal, which also included a $1.5 million payment to L.A.

"I feel very confident we'll end up with a strong two-guard position, but we have other needs we have to address, and if we stayed the way we were, we wouldn't be able to address them. That in a nutshell is why we did this trade."

The ramifications, however, could get very complicated -- and ugly.

Thorn, whose team picked up journeyman subs Rodney Buford and Jacque Vaughn yesterday, said last night that his conversation with Kidd about the Kittles deal was brief.

"I talked to someone who was with him," Thorn said. "I talked to Jason for about three seconds."

Presumably enough time for Kidd to slam down the phone. While Thorn would not confirm Kidd's mood or whether a meeting was requested, Kidd's anger over the sacrifice of his backcourt partner was felt throughout the organization -- so much that it is now widely assumed that he will demand a trade.

Agent Jeff Schwartz, who was traveling yesterday, did not return calls seeking comment. But another member of Kidd's inner circle predicted the worst.

"He took the Nets' money because they told him they were going to try to win the championship -- false pretenses," Kidd's friend said. "Knowing Jason, he'll want out. I'd bet that he's not playing until they trade him."

The Nets have now lost three of their top seven players -- Kenyon Martin, Rodney Rogers and Kittles -- and received no live bodies in return. They have also trimmed their payroll from $62 million to its present $47.5 million, and there is no guarantee that they are done hacking more salaries. It is possible, for example, that the Nets will buy out Lucious Harris, who has $2.65 million coming to him next season.

It also appears as though they would dissuade Mourning from returning, even though he has been in the gym almost daily for the past two months. According to Zo's friend, he told the Nets that he would like to play again, and showed ample readiness with a strong performance at his charity game last week. But the team would rather see him retire -- thereby allowing it to save $12 million after the last two years of his salary come off the salary cap.

Mourning's agent, Jeff Wechsler, said last night that a comeback from last December's kidney transplant "hasn't come up -- Alonzo made his comments earlier this summer that he has no plans to play, and I'd believe what Alonzo says."

Thorn added, "He's been working out, and there's certainly no doubt that if he can play he would like to play...but it's too early to comment about it."

When asked whether the bean counters would welcome Mourning back, Thorn's response was intentionally vague: "If he's able to play," he said, "I'm sure he'll be here."

Kittles leaves New Jersey after 496 games covering seven seasons, in which time he became the Nets' second-leading scorer behind Buck Williams. He also had more steals than any other Net besides Darwin Cook, played more minutes than anyone other than Williams, and led the franchise in most 3-point categories.

Still, Thorn referred to Kittles as "a role player. If you look at our team, we have spots to fill. By making this trade it puts us in a better position to fill other spots."

Besides the Clippers' second-round pick next year, the Nets also get a $9.8 million exception that can be used only in a trade, but they are not likely to use it. To fill out the roster, Thorn has targeted Ron Mercer and Newark native Eric Williams, hopeful they'd be willing to split their midlevel exception, that extra $4.9 million fund that capped-out teams can spend on free agents.

"There's interest on the Nets' part and the lure of New Jersey is attractive on Eric's part," agent Mark Bartelstein said yesterday. "I think he'd be a great fit in a variety of ways."

[whatever]

Any prediction about what is gonna happen around the NBA this season. There are so many changes going on...