NBA Discussion

[jay_z]

Wade plays 1 and occasionally 2, Carter can play 2 or 3.

Jones
Wade
Carter
Haslem
O'Neal

That's a damn good lineup on paper, too bad the deal fell through. Vince needs to change teams for sure, maybe that'll get him motivated again.

why would miami want vc, an overprived crybaby who can't stay healthy or keep eddie jones who can't make an outside shot and earn a lot of money?

i rather have grant hill and kevin cato than vc and ej. ghill is unselfish and can create open shots for his teammates, which i don't think vc can match.

[spooks]

why would miami want vc, an overprived crybaby who can't stay healthy or keep eddie jones who can't make an outside shot and earn a lot of money?

i rather have grant hill and kevin cato than vc and ej. ghill is unselfish and can create open shots for his teammates, which i don't think vc can match.

This matters because? I don't see why Grant Hill and Cato were brought into the discussion. Discussion was about a trade between TOR and MIA that fell through, has nothing to do with ORL.

Eddie Jones and Vince Carter make the same amount of money and Vince probably costs 'less' because of the revenue he generates. I don't see a reason why the Heat wouldn't take the trade. Vince is a better player than Eddie even in his current uninterested state.

who can't stay healthy

47 games combined in the last 3 years prior to this season. Go Grant Hill Go

[jay_z]

This matters because? I don't see why Grant Hill and Cato were brought into the discussion. Discussion was about a trade between TOR and MIA that fell through, has nothing to do with ORL.

Eddie Jones and Vince Carter make the same amount of money and Vince probably costs 'less' because of the revenue he generates. I don't see a reason why the Heat wouldn't take the trade. Vince is a better player than Eddie even in his current uninterested state.

47 games combined in the last 3 years prior to this season. Go Grant Hill Go

we are all trying to virtual GMs here. aren't we? we analyze teams and players. so, i said if i were the GM of the heat, i wouldn't want jones or carter on my team because they are overpaid and will hurt your team.

ghill played only 47 games the last 3 years but he didn't tear up the team like cancerous carter. the difference between ghill and vc is that ghill wanted to play but he couldn't. meanwhile, vc didn't want to play when he was healthy.

[spooks]

we are all trying to virtual GMs here. aren't we? we analyze teams and players. so, i said if i were the GM of the heat, i wouldn't want jones or carter on my team because they are overpaid and will hurt your team.

The GM of the Heat was offered VC straight up for Eddie Jones. Discussion of rumored/possible trades is relevant. Bringing in players and teams that were never involved in trades talk is irrelevant. That's all I'm getting at.

I think Vince has been officially traded to the Nets. The article is somewhere on tsn.ca

Carter for Alonzo Mourning, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams and two first round draft picks. Hopefully playing with Kidd will revitalize his career shouldnt be too bad getting all those lobs and fast break points

Does great for their fanbase when they move to Brooklyn. RJ and VC are more or less the same type of player and they lose inside presence. Playoff predictions anyone? I say 7-8th seed, 1st round exit.

[Vicious]

The GM of the Heat was offered VC straight up for Eddie Jones. Discussion of rumored/possible trades is relevant. Bringing in players and teams that were never involved in trades talk is irrelevant. That's all I'm getting at.

I think Vince has been officially traded to the Nets. The article is somewhere on tsn.ca

Carter for Alonzo Mourning, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams and two first round draft picks. Hopefully playing with Kidd will revitalize his career shouldnt be too bad getting all those lobs and fast break points

Does great for their fanbase when they move to Brooklyn. RJ and VC are more or less the same type of player and they lose inside presence. Playoff predictions anyone? I say 7-8th seed, 1st round exit.

I never heard miami was offered Carter for Jones, frankly i'm surprised that they would be making the same bank. Miami had other issues to consider besides the money though and i dont see Carter helping the team chem at all.

I think NJ is a great place for carter, it's too bad Alonzo isn't there, i wanted to see him at least be part of a good run. Depending on how motivated Kidd and Carter are i wouldn't be surprised at all if NJ goes past first round of playoff. Maybe RJ and VC can make more commericals together

[Yon]

is it lex luthor that you are going out with?

I don't think so. But some people think he is...

[Moinllieon]

Of course, all of this speculation on how good/bad VC does is hinged upon Kidd actually staying in NJ. That's still up in the air at the moment.

Bold prediction time! Toronto finishes with a better record than NJ despite of the trade. Currently, the .5 games separate the 2 teams in the standings.

[timoxtc]

I can't believe VC is gone from Toronto. After all these years...

Seriously, VC brought Toronto some excitement and also happiness. I was actually really into to b-ball. All these times cheering for the Raptors and now they're going to suck!

[spooks]

Bold prediction time! Toronto finishes with a better record than NJ despite of the trade. Currently, the .5 games separate the 2 teams in the standings.

Toronto is teh sux now But I'm still gonna pay to see them play when I head home over the holidays.

THinking of whether I wanna watch the Magic on the 3rd or SacTown on the 5th $140 seats are actually pretty nice.

[Moinllieon]

Toronto is teh sux now But I'm still gonna pay to see them play when I head home over the holidays.

THinking of whether I wanna watch the Magic on the 3rd or SacTown on the 5th $140 seats are actually pretty nice.

Remember 2 years ago when VC went down and the Raptors won like 10 in a row with Alvin Williams (who?) to make the playoffs? It could happen.

As for the prices... ew... I'm so broke right now that the only thing I'd buy for $140 is a 4.0GPA or a top of the line computer.

[WuTang_Heroes]

Yep, currently even VC is a non-factor in Toronto, he's averaging the lowest ppg, apg, and rpg ever !
Now..who else is going to be traded, Peja ?

[spooks]

Now..who else is going to be traded, Peja ?

Michael Redd will be moved for sure. He's a unrestricted FA at the end of the year and the Bucks can't afford him and Redd doesn't want to resign with them.

Rose and Donyell Marshall trade rumors are pretty hot in Toronto right now. Zo probably won't ever suit up as a Raptor.

[Long]

Well I can't believe it if Miami turned down an offer for VC for E Jones, and now he's in New Jersey...

Pat Riley of all people should know that sometimes you need to gamble on an 'eccentric personality' in order to build a Championship team.

Anyone remember some dude call Bob McDoo who has a high scorer with a bad attitude who the Lakers traded for and won Championships with???

How about some mad man they called Dennis Rodman who's toughness, rebounding, and defense helped the Bulls to 3 Championships.

Or are people forgetting last year's move that Joe Dumars made by bringing the wild beast Rasheed Wallace to the PIstons?? Yay, another Championship on display.

What about Houston's trade for a supposedly over the hill, declining, and unhappy Clyde Drexler...

Big gambles normally pay off..... Pat Riley is getting old...

[Long]

Whoa! Not cool... Not cool at all.... The first Miami Heat game I ever get to see live in Australia and what did I see?

Dwyane Wade trying his best do to a Kobe "Airball" Bryant impression... When will he realise that if it aint droping, it aint droping...

Thank got "slash and burn" Eddie Jones actually played well, and so did Big Shaq daddy...


On a related matter it is plainly obvious that Michael "Air" Jordan > Kobe "Airball" Bryant

[Moinllieon]

Well I can't believe it if Miami turned down an offer for VC for E Jones, and now he's in New Jersey...

Pat Riley of all people should know that sometimes you need to gamble on an 'eccentric personality' in order to build a Championship team.

Anyone remember some dude call Bob McDoo who has a high scorer with a bad attitude who the Lakers traded for and won Championships with???

How about some mad man they called Dennis Rodman who's toughness, rebounding, and defense helped the Bulls to 3 Championships.

Or are people forgetting last year's move that Joe Dumars made by bringing the wild beast Rasheed Wallace to the PIstons?? Yay, another Championship on display.

What about Houston's trade for a supposedly over the hill, declining, and unhappy Clyde Drexler...

Big gambles normally pay off..... Pat Riley is getting old...

Kinda happy interpretations there isn't it? I mean, Rodman only sabotaged the Spurs for about 3 seasons after the Spurs took a chance on him despite of his attitude problems in Detroit and before the Bulls took a chance on him (and really, I think it's safe to say that MJ would have won the titles without him anyways, it wasn't exactly like Rodman was the "final piece of the puzzle" like Wallace was). And Drexler was never considered to have an attitude problem, just an aging and declining player (and he certainly was by the time he joined the Rockets, and Drexler was no "final piece" either, seeing as how the Rockets won the title the year before without him).

By the same argument that you are making, all Miami (or any other team) has to do is trade for Kobe and everything will be honkey dorey. Because after all, Kobe is a talented player with a perceived attitude problem right?

As for shooting. Guess you don't agree with the expression that the only way a shooter can get out of a slump is by shooting some more... I don't particularly agree with it either actually... I think if the jumpshots aren't falling, then the perimeter players need to start taking balls to the basket and getting to the foul line... but that's another matter altogether I guess.

Another bold prediction, Lamar Odom will get traded, or at least be shopped around.

[Long]

And Drexler was never considered to have an attitude problem, just an aging and declining player (and he certainly was by the time he joined the Rockets, and Drexler was no "final piece" either, seeing as how the Rockets won the title the year before without him).

On Drexler its not true what you said above:

1. That year he 'did' have a really poor attitude towards Blazer management. There was an 'article' in Sports Illustrated with him doing a lay-up instead of a dunk with the title "Clyde the Slide" as opposed to "Clyde the Glide", documenting a series of supposed injury faking incidents, missing training sessions in previous years ect... He was not a happy chap.

2. Houston were really struggling and were actually going to miss the play-offs had they not acquired Drelxer mid season. They ended up finishing 6th or something that year.


3. Clyde was huge in the play-offs and the NBA finals - to the point were they could have named him as the NBA Finals MVP - had it not been for the fact that Hakeem tipped in his missed lay-up to win game 1. Clyde was superb... His defence on Hardaway and Anderson down the stretch in the 4 quarters was really telling considering that Shaq was averaging close to 30 ppg and killing Hakeem underneath pyhiscally and mentally that series...

[spooks]

I think if the jumpshots aren't falling, then the perimeter players need to start taking balls to the basket and getting to the foul line... but that's another matter altogether I guess.

Not as easy as it sounds. When outside shots aren't dropping and the defender knows you don't want to shoot 'em anymore. They usually just take a step back, effectively taking away your first step and they can work angles easier. Unless the offensively player is freakishly quick, shooting is probably the best way out of the slump since you have that 'extra step' to get a good look

defence

Something VC does very poorly and doesn't put any effort into. All of the elite teams have swingmen capable of lighting it up. VC would just get exposed.

Shaq was averaging close to 30 ppg and killing Hakeem underneath pyhiscally and mentally that series...

Say what? Hakeem was avging 32.8 points, 11.5 rebounds, 5.5 assists when they swept the Magic in 1995.

His footwork was giving O'Neal fits, he owned O'Neal in that series, and owned DRob (MVP that year) the series before. Shaq wasn't killing Hakeem it was the other way around, seasoned veteran Hakeem schooled young Shaq.

[- L1n -]

ahahha the nick name says it all, The Dream lives on hahahahahhaa

[Moinllieon]

On Drexler its not true what you said above:

1. That year he 'did' have a really poor attitude towards Blazer management. There was an 'article' in Sports Illustrated with him doing a lay-up instead of a dunk with the title "Clyde the Slide" as opposed to "Clyde the Glide", documenting a series of supposed injury faking incidents, missing training sessions in previous years ect... He was not a happy chap.

Not happy is hella different than having an attitude problem. Barkley and Ewing weren't happy at the end of their careers either, especially Ewing with the Knicks. Don't mean they are people who have the stigma and the image of being malcontents who don't like to work hard. As for the other stuff about him faking injuries and stuff, I've never heard anything about it, especially considering how frequently Clyde was getting injured the latter half of his career....

2. Houston were really struggling and were actually going to miss the play-offs had they not acquired Drelxer mid season. They ended up finishing 6th or something that year.

Yes, they did finish 6th in the West that year. But your assertion that they would have missed the playoffs if not for Drexler is dead wrong (could not be more wrong actually). When they made the trade for Clyde, the Rockets were 30-17, and they finished 47-35. Yes, you read that right, they were 17-18 WITH Drexler in the lineup. So more accurately, they made the playoffs despite being thrown off balance by Clyde's acquisition.

3. Clyde was huge in the play-offs and the NBA finals - to the point were they could have named him as the NBA Finals MVP - had it not been for the fact that Hakeem tipped in his missed lay-up to win game 1. Clyde was superb... His defence on Hardaway and Anderson down the stretch in the 4 quarters was really telling considering that Shaq was averaging close to 30 ppg and killing Hakeem underneath pyhiscally and mentally that series...

As spooks has already pointed out, your assertion that Shaq was somehow "dominating" Hakeem is dead wrong. But let me take it further. I'll make the case that Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, and Kenny Smith were MUCH more important for the Rockets that series than Drexler was. Cassell took over the end of Game 3 and 4. Robert Horry hit the game winning shot in Game 3. Kenny Smith banked in the 3 at the end of regulation after Nick Anderson missed those 4 FTs. Drexler did contribute around 20 points a game, but come on, how in the world could they have named him MVP over Hakeem? After all, Clyde couldn't have guarded BOTH Hardaway and Anderson could he?

Drexler's contribution came in the first round, when the Rockets beat the Jazz.

[Long]

As spooks has already pointed out, your assertion that Shaq was somehow "dominating" Hakeem is dead wrong. But let me take it further. I'll make the case that Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, and Kenny Smith were MUCH more important for the Rockets that series than Drexler was. Cassell took over the end of Game 3 and 4. Robert Horry hit the game winning shot in Game 3. Kenny Smith banked in the 3 at the end of regulation after Nick Anderson missed those 4 FTs. Drexler did contribute around 20 points a game, but come on, how in the world could they have named him MVP over Hakeem? After all, Clyde couldn't have guarded BOTH Hardaway and Anderson could he?

Drexler's contribution came in the first round, when the Rockets beat the Jazz.

If you actually watch the games and break them down you'll realise Drexler was a critical player in Houston's finals series.

For example when Houston was trailing Orlando by 20pts in game 1, who was it that led the Rockets all the way back so that Kenny Smith and Co could do thier heroics??? Clyde Drexler sparking an unbelievable run with rebounding, steals (stripped Anderson and Hardaway of the ball leading to fast break points), and he also scored 12 pts during that stretch and got 4 rebounds as well as 2 steals. Such a quick burst killed the Magic. He did not only do this once, but in all games when the Magic were making a run or where Houston were down.

Also Shaq was in no way dominated by Hakeem. If you watch the games and watch the plays being broken down by Bill Walton (who I hate by the way) continually say how much Shaq is dominating. As he said in game 1, "What the F*CK are the magic doing doubling Hakeem? They got the lead when Shaq was playing Hakeem 1 on 1! Shaq's dominating him! Double teams are only killing Orland as Robert, Clyde, Mario, and Kenny are hitting the 3 pointers and brining Houston back! That's why Orlando only leads by 2". Nuff said....