NBA Discussion

[Moinllieon]

That was a horrible trade. Wesley doesn't bring anything to Houston he's not even a real PG he's an undersized 2 guard.

Rockets traded away their 3rd best player for a scrub. Jackson was the one of the few guys on the team that played on both ends every night. Every championship team needs a role-player like Jackson he plays defense and does a little of everything.

Both have 2 year deals left but Jackson is making 1/2 of what Wesley is making. UGH someone explain to me how this helps the Rockets.

For a team desperately in need of some speed, quickness, and athleticism other than T-Mac, maybe he brings some of that? Not to mention a decent spot up shooters that will make a team pay for doubling down on Yao and T-Mac. Personally, I think Jon Barry is a better fit... Anyways, Rockets were unlucky that they traded away RJ for an immature Eddie Griffin (whose finally coming around for the T-Wolves). Had they kept RJ or had Griffin matured sooner, it'd be a different situation.

[jay_z]

i agree it was a bad trade for the rox not because of jim jackson but because of boki, who's young and can play. jackson is old and not as good a shooter as wesley, and the rockets need good outside shooters. their PG bob sura is one of the worst outside shooter in the league. van gundy must go!

VC will never be a superstar. ghill is a better player if he can stay healthy.

[spooks]

For a team desperately in need of some speed, quickness, and athleticism other than T-Mac, maybe he brings some of that? Not to mention a decent spot up shooters that will make a team pay for doubling down on Yao and T-Mac.

Wesley doesn't bring speed, quickness or athleticism. This move was an attempt to solidify the PG spot but they picked up an aging 2 guard with a bigger contract.

Wesley's 3pt %'s from last 4 seasons: .332, .424, .323, .350

Jackson's 3pt %'s from last 4 seasons: .469, .451, .400, .367

Jackson shoots a better % while taking more shots, he made 160+ 3s in 80 games last season.

Unless they plan to play him at PG it also moves their best player out of his natural position. Rockets are taking steps backwards in building a championship team.

[Moinllieon]

Hey, you asked for a reason and I gave it to ya. Doesn't mean I agree with those hypothetical reasons.

[Long]

Rockets will not move forward until they acquire a coach who can motivate his players... aka like Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, and if he's still alive the hip and funky John Lucas who inspired a 'soft' mash mello type dude in David Robinson to a career year... Yao is almost a 'homeless' man's version of David Robinson...

On the tradde- I'm happy that the Rockets finally got rid of Jim Jackson regardless of what other people may say... Games are won/lost in the 4th quarters... The Rockets had so many close games this season where they lost by 1pt - 8pt margins. And in most of those games Jim Jackson was playing as if he was an All-Star player, by taking and missing consecutive shot attempts (sometimes 4 to 5 shots in a row) at critical stages in those games. That does not help the Rocket's cause.... Especially when T-Mac and Yao are denied of the ball by a 'selfish' teammate in the 4th quarters...

What really made me mad, and I forget which game it was... was seeing Jim Jackson run up the court, get the ball... Yao's down low but he pops the 3 instead and misses... and then repeats the act, and then repeats the act... Rockets lose by 2pts... Happened too many times for my liking

When Jim Jackson was injured Rockets looked better and won games. The first game he was back Rockets lost due to his poor 4th quarter play... Look first game after the Jim Jackson trade, the Rockets won. If no Jim Jackson means that T-Mac and Yao gets to see more of the ball in the 4th quarters then I'm happy...

[spooks]

Hey, you asked for a reason and I gave it to ya. Doesn't mean I agree with those hypothetical reasons.

Second part comparing shooting was more of a reply for Jay_z.

They're the same age. Jackson is a better shooter and defender, making less money. Doesn't make sense to me.

Spurs looking like the team to beat. Best big man in the league + great supporting cast, can't see anyone taking 4 games from them come playoff time.

[Long]

On Jim Jackson - Now I remember the game that drove me nuts. It was LA versus Houston and the Rockets lost by 5 points. Yao was on fire scoring 30+ that game. But he couldn't get the ball that game in the 4th - not because of good defense by the way but because Jim Jackson went something like 5/24 FGs and kept shooting it in the wth...

[Long]

When Houston wins - Jim Jackson on average jacks up 10 shots per game, connecting on 45%, averaging around 14ppg.


When Houston loses - Jim Jackson on average jacks up 13 shots per game, connecting on 40%, averaging around 12ppg....

Doesn't seem much of a difference - but when you consider he takes most of his shot attempts in the 4th quarter it makes a huge difference... Enough said...

ie he takes on average 3 more shots and scores 2 less points in a loss. Consider how many close games Houston has lost and that makes a huge difference.

[spooks]

When Houston wins - Jim Jackson on average jacks up 10 shots per game, connecting on 45%, averaging around 14ppg.


When Houston loses - Jim Jackson on average jacks up 13 shots per game, connecting on 40%, averaging around 12ppg....

Doesn't seem much of a difference - but when you consider he takes most of his shot attempts in the 4th quarter it makes a huge difference... Enough said...

ie he takes on average 3 more shots and scores 2 less points in a loss. Consider how many close games Houston has lost and that makes a huge difference.

That's not suprising. When an important player to a team's success does poorly that team usually loses. You can find similar stats for almost every player in the league.

You're trying to knock Jimmy Jackson's game. Have you considered what Wesley brings to the Rockets? Jackson might not have been effective offensively every night but at least he showed up for defense.

Can you say that about any other player on the Rocket or Wesley? I think not.

[- L1n -]

u know wat houston should just trade for ron artest, screw mo taylor and bob sura

[jay_z]

Wesley doesn't bring speed, quickness or athleticism. This move was an attempt to solidify the PG spot but they picked up an aging 2 guard with a bigger contract.

Wesley's 3pt %'s from last 4 seasons: .332, .424, .323, .350

Jackson's 3pt %'s from last 4 seasons: .469, .451, .400, .367

Jackson shoots a better % while taking more shots, he made 160+ 3s in 80 games last season.

Unless they plan to play him at PG it also moves their best player out of his natural position. Rockets are taking steps backwards in building a championship team.

the rockets doesn't need wesley to create or play defense. he was brought in to knock down open shots. he should be like damon jones of the miami heat. tmac can play 2 or 3. if i were the coach, i always put him on the other team's best offensive player.

wesley didn't have as many open looks as jackson had, so that explains why his percentages are below jackson's.

[spooks]

the rockets doesn't need wesley to create or play defense. he was brought in to knock down open shots. he should be like damon jones of the miami heat. tmac can play 2 or 3. if i were the coach, i always put him on the other team's best offensive player.

wesley didn't have as many open looks as jackson had, so that explains why his percentages are below jackson's.

Who else on that team besides Jackson played defense regularly? Jackson was also often guarding the opposing team's best 2 or 3. Forcing TMac to guard the other team's best offensive player is a waste of energy.

Not as many open looks is a weak argument and not entirely true. Wesley has had just as many wide open looks the last 4 seasons playing with B. Davis.

[Long]

I agree David Wesley was a weak acquisition to the Houston Rockets... But Jim Jackson needed to go. True he did play good defense. But that's all wasted when you consider what he does to the Rockets in the 4th Quarters. I mean Houston has lost 10 games this season by a margin of 8 points or less...

A guy like Jim Jackson jacking up and missing 2-3-4-5 consecutive shots when Houston is either up by 2points or down by two points in the 4th quarter doesn't help your team. Neither does Jim Jackson's average turnover of 2.0 per game in the 4th quarter help... Turnovers and bad shot making decisions killed the Rockets period.

For those wondering my 10 top most hated players in the NBA are:

1. Kobe "Airball" Bryant
2. Gary "Shrinkable Glove" Payton
3. Ben "Pussy" Wallace
4. "Choking" Eddie Jones
5. Nick "Dick" Anderson (No longer in the league but hate him none the less)
6. Jim "Hold Out" Jackson
7. Rasheed "Cry Baby" Wallace
8. Tony "Costly" Parker
9. Carmelo "Jerk" Anthony
10. Vince "Attitude" Carter

[Moinllieon]

No Artest? No Stoudamire? No Zach "I Spit on Fans" Randolph? No "Feed My Family/Suck My [Cojones]/The Ultimate Choker" Sprewell? No "My Baby's Daddy" Shawn Kemp? Your list needs updating, not to mention funnier nicknames.

[spooks]

Turnovers and bad shot making decisions killed the Rockets period

Blame Yao not Jackson. Yao's inconsistent and often poor play killed the Rockets. Not Jackson missing a few shots in the 4th quarter.

You still haven't addressed what Wesley brings to the team that Jackson does not. Jackson is a superior shooter and defender, saves TMac energy by guarding the other team's best 2/3, and makes less money..

Why do a trade that serves no purpose? They don't need any of the skills Wesley brings to the team. I'll be happy if that rumored deal with Cavs involving Luke Jackson/Snow go through.

Anyways Happy New Years yall

[Long]

No Artest? No Stoudamire? No Zach "I Spit on Fans" Randolph? No "Feed My Family/Suck My [Cojones]/The Ultimate Choker" Sprewell? No "My Baby's Daddy" Shawn Kemp? Your list needs updating, not to mention funnier nicknames.

Firstly the names I gave my hated players weren't intended to be funny. It's the exact reason I hate those players. "Airball" Bryant for a number of "Airballs" that he has put up in his career that have costed LA victory in the play-offs beginning with the Utah versus LA saga way back. To his efforts versus the Pistons.


On the players you mentioned, I think Artest and Sprewell are great for the game. My interest in the NBA would have died out long ago had Sprewell not taken the time to choke his coach. I just about had enough of the NBA this season when Artest started punching Piston's fans. To me he is this years MVP and has raised the NBA's profile around the world once more, and Stern should be happy about that.

[Long]

You still haven't addressed what Wesley brings to the team that Jackson does not. Jackson is a superior shooter and defender, saves TMac energy by guarding the other team's best 2/3, and makes less money..

I've already told you, but you have not been able to understand/comprehend.

What David Wesley brings to the team is the "willingness" to be a "role player" in the 4th quarters. He can play at PG or SG. He won't take shots away from Yao or T-Mac in the 4th. 90% of the games this year Houston have lost in the 4th quarters. They don't need anything else. Just a guy who will be "smart" and not do anything "foolish", "rash", or "stupid" in the 4th.

Nothing worse then a role player jacking up shots and playing as if he is an All-Star player of the team in the 4th Qaurters. Players like that used to get bench in the 4th quarter. That's why I think Van Gundy needs to go. The man has no idea.

PS. Rockets are 5-1 without Jim Jackson in the line-up this year and look to extend that to 6 wins. Without a role player ball hog like Jim Jackson, the game is a lot simpler for T-Mac and Yao.

[James Ko]

Ya Artest did what he had to do. I mean he didn't just run up to some unknown fan for lipping him off... he ran up and defeated him, his teammate and the NBA league for the abuse they get from fans... and this time someone threw the first punch or bottle or whatever and it was the fan who started it.

I mean when NBAers throw the first punch then sure fine them (example: Rodman kicking the photographer or Barkley spitting on the fan... but can you imagine someone spit on George Bush and then Old George take a swing at the man... you think George Bush get arrested and sue for that? I don't think so.

Stern is an idiot... I don't know why he is still there... if Artest got banned this year for players doing something to protect the NBA players, Stern should get banned for doing something that can't protect the NBA players from all this.

[Moinllieon]

Firstly the names I gave my hated players weren't intended to be funny. It's the exact reason I hate those players. "Airball" Bryant for a number of "Airballs" that he has put up in his career that have costed LA victory in the play-offs beginning with the Utah versus LA saga way back. To his efforts versus the Pistons.

On the players you mentioned, I think Artest and Sprewell are great for the game. My interest in the NBA would have died out long ago had Sprewell not taken the time to choke his coach. I just about had enough of the NBA this season when Artest started punching Piston's fans. To me he is this years MVP and has raised the NBA's profile around the world once more, and Stern should be happy about that.

I see. Apparently you and I have different scales when it comes to what to like/hate. I guess for you it's not ok for VC and Carmelo to be jerks but not a problem when Randolph or Sprewell acts worse. I mean, God forbid that you'd lose interest in the NBA, what would David Stern do without Artest keeping you interested in the NBA?

[Long]

Rockets are now 6 - 1 without Jim Jackson in the line-up.

Bod Sura stepped up scoring 24 pts on 10/14 FG which was good to see. If Jim Jackson had scored 24 pts I'm sure the FG would have been something like 5/21 and he would probably had to rely on most of his points from the FT line.

Also I've been seeing some great hussle from David Wesley, without the Jim Jackson like mistakes on offense.

The Rockets are now on the rise and claimed the 8th play-off spot in the West. II'm sure with an idoit like Jim Jackson gone, they'll will hold onto the play-off spot.

Good ridance to Jim Jackson... He can try and reclaim his all-star form with the Hornets...