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    Discuss what's going on around the league.

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    Looks like Shaq is leaving.

    -----

    LA Times: Shaquille O'Neal doesn't want to play for the Lakers anymore.

    most unexpectedly, O'Neal, who is still under contract for two more years, said he no longer wants to be part of the team.

    Through his agent, Perry Rogers, O'Neal has demanded the Lakers trade him, a request team management sources say will be granted, if possible.

    O'Neal, in a telephone interview, said he had lost faith in the franchise and its general manager, Mitch Kupchak.

    The process of trading O'Neal, of undoing the summer of 1996, when O'Neal and Bryant were brought in by then-General Manager Jerry West and eventually won three NBA championships together, will start immediately, and Kupchak undoubtedly will be overrun with offers.

    "The direction they're going in, if they're going to continue to go in the same direction, I don't want to be a part of this," O'Neal said.

    "This team, it ain't about me. It ain't about Phil. It's supposed to be about team."

    Kupchak, who said Thursday he would consider trading O'Neal if that is what he wished, had no comment Friday.

    O'Neal, one of the great players in NBA history and the Finals MVP in each of the recent Laker three-peat seasons, has two seasons remaining on his Laker contract, for $27.7 million next season and $30.6 million

    the season after. He can opt out of the final year of the contract and become an unrestricted free agent, but is in a bigger hurry to go.

    "I wanted to let you guys know, this is something I've been thinking about for a long time," he said. "When I was brought here by Jerry West, there was a team concept. ... It was something I wanted to be a part of. Now no one cares. I told you I'm all about winning championships. Now the organization is different. It seems right now they're trying to pit one person against another."

    "Therefore," he said, "I don't want to be a part of that."

    By the rules of the NBA collective bargaining agreement, the Lakers would have to take back about as much salary as they trade away, meaning a deal involving O'Neal would be complex and probably involve many players.

    Laker management suspects O'Neal is less upset about the direction of the team than the status of his contract extension, negotiations for which weakened months ago. The sides were $9 million apart over the two-year extension, and O'Neal soon will be eligible for a third year, which will put them farther apart.

    O'Neal, 32, insisted his disappointment lay in the sway of the organization. Bryant, as an unrestricted free agent, has been the team's focus, the perception growing that it has been ordered by Buss.

    Kupchak said Thursday he would not undertake a sign-and-trade with Bryant under any circumstances. (And with Bryant becoming a free agent Friday, that scenario is no longer possible). But, Kupchak said, if O'Neal were to demand a trade he would consider it, allowing, "That would not be a good day in this club's history."

    By late in the season, sources close to Buss were suggesting

    the owner would order Kupchak to trade O'Neal anyway, which might have led to the slowing in negotiations. While there is no debating O'Neal's on-court value, his contract takes up nearly three-quarters of the team's salary cap, which had made difficult Kupchak's job of building around O'Neal.

    None of which has rested well with O'Neal, very proud and unhappy about a number of issues within the Lakers.

    "So, I want you guys to write that if any GM out there wants a hard-working big man who wants to win championships, call Mitch Kupchak, because he'll entertain offers," O'Neal said. "My last six, seven years, I want to be on a great team.

    "Right now, upstairs in the Laker offices, they've lost the team concept. They're trying to pit people against each other. ... So, obviously, we don't have the same thought process anymore. That's fine.

    I know it's a business. I wanted to let you know I think the fans deserve better."

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    From the NY Post.

    What's critical to understand about Shaq is his salary - $27,696,429 next season, $30,642,858 the following one - all but prohibits pride and principle from leading him astray. His contract is grandfathered, meaning if traded, he's eligible for a 121/2-percent yearly increase on an extension or a new deal. However, if he exercises his option after next season or leaves as a free agent at any time, he's only entitled to sign elsewhere for one third of the cap . . . currently $45 million.
    Shaq gets an automatic extension if traded. No wonder he wants a trade! Any team getting him will have to pay out $175million over the next five years. That's going to make it even harder to trade him.

  3. #3
    Senior Member spooks's Avatar
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    To sum up a few of the Shaq rumors being circulated in the media.

    Lakers dealing O'Neal to Memphis for Gasol, Swift, and Posey. This one requires 1 or 2 contract fillers I think.

    Shaq to Orlando for Howard/Gooden, 1st pick, G.Hill. Apparantly not going to happen, Magic GM said that trade is mathematically impossible.

    Shaq to Dallas for 2 of the following players Dirk/Walker/Jamison/Finley.

    They only have 2 weeks to move Shaq though not much trading leverage, teams know they have to move Shaq. FA period starts in 2 weeks, if Shaq is still in town Kobe might sign with another team.
    Basketball is the second most exciting indoor sport, and the other one shouldn't have spectators.

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    Senior Member Long's Avatar
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    Originally posted by spooks
    Shaq to Dallas for 2 of the following players Dirk/Walker/Jamison/Finley.
    Well it's plainly obvious that Buss and Mitch will choose Kobe over everyone else including Phil and Shaq. That's how LA got to this point. They didn't even attempt to talk Kobe to a sign and trade. So here are my comments:

    1. LA ship Shaq to Dallas and acquire Dirk and Walker. (it's only fair. Mavs are getting the top post player in the NBA, so they may as well give away 2).

    2. Sign Kobe Bryant for another few years. (hope his court case works out)

    3. Ship Walker to Portland along with Devan George and Gary Payton for, Abdul-Rahim, Ratliff and the No 13 pick. May need a few more 'players' to fill in money gaps. But who cares. Get this happening. LA gets rid of a 3pt shooting PF and acquires solid defence and rebounding at the C and SF position.

    4. LA acquires Telfair with the 13th Pick to play at PG, whilst Portland gets Payton as compensation. (Lakers can afford to take risk on Telfair whilst they have Fisher).

    LA would be looking good with Telfair/Fisher, Kobe, Abdul-Rahim, Dirk, Ratliff. Kobe and Dirk as the main scorers. Adbul-Rahim, Fisher, Telfair, and others can chip in when needed. Ratliff can be LA's poorer version of Ben Wallace. Gives time for Telfair to mature and develop as a PG behind Fisher.

    I know, I know.... Money and contractual arrangements, plus savy GMs is going to make this unlikey to occur. But it's just a "dream" of mine that LA can rebound after losing Shaq and still have a good enough team to challenge the West and make the Finals next season.

    Man just so dam faustrating no knowing what's happening for sure. Hopefully LA won't make a big mistake.
    "Seems, madam! Nay it is, I know not seems!" - Hamlet, William Shakespeare

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    Senior Member spooks's Avatar
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    Telfair's stock has been dropping, he's projected to go in the mid 20s.

    His scouting reports sound okay. 5'11 guard with a shaky jumper, needs to get stronger and lightning quick. One positive though, you can work on the jumper and strength but you can't teach quickness.
    Basketball is the second most exciting indoor sport, and the other one shouldn't have spectators.

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    Senior Member Long's Avatar
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    Originally posted by spooks
    Shaq to Orlando for Howard/Gooden, 1st pick, G.Hill. Apparantly not going to happen, Magic GM said that trade is mathematically impossible.
    If that's mathamatically impossible how about:

    Shaq to Orlando for Tracy McGrady, and Grant Hill/Juwan Howard. (with some other players to plug the 'financial' gaps).

    How long do the Magic think they can hold onto T-Mac if he demands to be traded. I've read he isn't even slightly interested in Emeka Okafor or Dwight Howard. He probably thinks they're nothing more than Michael Olawakandi, Joe Smith, or even Kwame Brown. Prehaps the Magic organisation would rather want to see T-Mac put the choke hold on Pat Williams at a formal dinner or something.... (Like Sprewell did a couple of seasons ago to his coach in the locker room when he demanded to be traded, but GS wouldn't).

    If the Magic want to rebuild they can do it with Okafor/Shaq. This isn't mathamatically impossible if they get rid of some huge contracts of the likes of Hill/Howard and McGrady.

    T-Mac/Kobe will become the 2000 version of MJ/Pippen. But it'll be ugly as hell though. I believe there will be major b*tching about who shoots the ball between these two. But could work, like NY's backcourt of Earl Monroe and that other guy (I forget his name now).

    Trading Shaq doesn't neccessarily have to be for a big man. Could even get the Vince Carter/Kobe Bryant combo happening if the Rapotors have other huge contracts they needed to unload along with Vince.
    "Seems, madam! Nay it is, I know not seems!" - Hamlet, William Shakespeare

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    Senior Member spooks's Avatar
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    Shaq's not going to Orlando if T-Mac isn't there. He has to give the okay before he's traded. I'm not 100% positive but I think he has a no trade clause.

    Couple new rumors

    Bulls have joined the T-Mac and Shaq sweepstakes. It makes sense they have the young talent and big contracts required to make a move for either.

    T-Mac might be headed for Houston and a deal could be announced as early as Wednesday. Francis + someone for T-Mac.

    Basketball is the second most exciting indoor sport, and the other one shouldn't have spectators.

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    Senior Member Long's Avatar
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    Gee whizz: I always thought T-Mac and Yao Ming were a possibility down the track. But for Houston? If this happens - look out Western Conference. This combo is going to be tough to beat. Houston could then sign a PG in FA to seal up the back-court. (Maybe Penny? Still solid as 3rd/4th/5th offensive option).

    Bulls?? Who the heck do they have to trade besides their draft pick and a couple of very 'average' players at best. If the Lakers trade Shaq to the Bulls I'd be demanding the Bulls 1st round drft picks for the next 5 seasons. At least this way LA can slowly rebuild.

    Interesting though. I would still prefer that LA ship Shaq to Dallas for one of Dirk/Walker/Jamieson/Finley. Keep one and use the other as trade bait.
    "Seems, madam! Nay it is, I know not seems!" - Hamlet, William Shakespeare

  9. #9
    Senior Member spooks's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Long
    Gee whizz: I always thought T-Mac and Yao Ming were a possibility down the track. But for Houston? If this happens - look out Western Conference. This combo is going to be tough to beat. Houston could then sign a PG in FA to seal up the back-court. (Maybe Penny? Still solid as 3rd/4th/5th offensive option).

    Bulls?? Who the heck do they have to trade besides their draft pick and a couple of very 'average' players at best. If the Lakers trade Shaq to the Bulls I'd be demanding the Bulls 1st round drft picks for the next 5 seasons. At least this way LA can slowly rebuild.
    Penny is still a very solid player even after all those injuries but he's under contract and making 14+ million for the next 2 years. He can chose to opt out but who's gonna give Penny a 14 mill contract? He'll be in NY for the next 2 years.

    Houston should probably ask the Magic to throw in Reece Gaines. Young athletic PG who won't get much time behind Lue and Francis anyways.

    Bulls have some good players to offer. I've been a huge Hinrich fan since his Kansas days I wouldn't be suprised if he developed into a Steve Nash calibre player. Curry and Chandler are both good young guys with good upside. AD is a solid guy who will bang and rebound + his 12 million contract expires soon.
    Basketball is the second most exciting indoor sport, and the other one shouldn't have spectators.

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    Senior Member Long's Avatar
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    Originally posted by spooks
    Bulls have some good players to offer. I've been a huge Hinrich fan since his Kansas days I wouldn't be suprised if he developed into a Steve Nash calibre player. Curry and Chandler are both good young guys with good upside. AD is a solid guy who will bang and rebound + his 12 million contract expires soon.
    I guess Shaq for Ed Curry, Kirk Hinrich, Antonio Davis, and the No. 5 Draft pick is not too bad. They could also insist on getting another 2 first round draft picks from the Bulls as well. Lakers will still have a competative roster (Bulls will have virtually nothing + Shaq):

    PGs: Hinrich, Payton, Fisher (if he returns)
    SGs: Bryant, Rush
    SFs: George, Walton, Fox
    PFs: Davis, Cook, Sampson, Malone (still a possibility)
    Centres: Curry, Stanislav

    Plus the No 5, pick from which they can get someone good. Though they'll need to cut 2 players from the roster back to 12.
    "Seems, madam! Nay it is, I know not seems!" - Hamlet, William Shakespeare

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    long i think u think too much of shaq. he is good and all, but his breaking up. shaqs not a machine, his not 100% and might not be 100% next year to play. i dont t hink shaq for dirt and walker is a fare trade for dallas. shaq cant make the shoots like dirt and walker. if shaq goes to dallas whats in it for shaq? remember he wants to win more champs and dallas will not be able to do it without dirt and walker. dallas is a stable team, with shaq or not doesnt make a difference.
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    McGrady, Shaq going to Mavs?

    Magic star wants to play with O'Neal

    Florida Today: McGrady, expected to be traded any day now by the Magic, wants to play with Shaquille O'Neal next season. O'Neal, of course, jilted the Magic eight years ago when he shockingly left as a free agent for Los Angeles.

    Apparently, it was no coincidence that on the same day sources claimed McGrady has no plans of returning to the Magic and wants to be traded that O'Neal also told reporters that he wants out of Los Angeles. McGrady and O'Neal are part-time neighbors in suburban Orlando and friends to the point that McGrady often refers to Shaq as "my big brother." Now, the two have discussed in depth a plan that would unite them in Dallas while playing for owner Mark Cuban.
    Looks like it's going to be a three way trade.


    Lakers = #1 Pick, JAmison, Gooden other players
    MAvs= Shaq, T-MAc
    MAgic= Dirk, Finley, other players

    Just my 2 cents, I could be wrong.

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    Watch out for teams like Hawks or Phoenix.
    It is said that Phoenix wants to have McGrady as well...

    As for O'Neal, he might go to Warriors for Dampier + Exel (I read somewhere)

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    Senior Member spooks's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Crazy8
    long i think u think too much of shaq. he is good and all, but his breaking up. shaqs not a machine, his not 100% and might not be 100% next year to play. i dont t hink shaq for dirt and walker is a fare trade for dallas. shaq cant make the shoots like dirt and walker. if shaq goes to dallas whats in it for shaq? remember he wants to win more champs and dallas will not be able to do it without dirt and walker. dallas is a stable team, with shaq or not doesnt make a difference.
    Dallas will get the most dominating player in the game right now. He's gonna put up 27/11 shooting 57% night in and night out. Not to mention his defensive presence alone would turn the Mavs from a crap defensive team to a really good one.

    Cuban would give Shaq the money he wants, 140 million for 4 years. There's also the possibility of playing with T-Mac, if the T-Mac deal doesn't go through he still has 2-3 all-stars to play with. Getting paid and being on a great contender seems like good incentive for Shaq to go to Dallas

    Dallas with Shaq has a better chance of winning then Dirk + Walker.
    Basketball is the second most exciting indoor sport, and the other one shouldn't have spectators.

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    Senior Member Long's Avatar
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    After all of this talk and rumours, my preferance would have been Shaq/T-Mac in LA. After reading everything that T-Mac has said this combo would have been a "no brainer". Sign Kobe and trade him for T-Mac. Shaq takes "huge" pay-cut on his extension ($18 million) to allow T-Mac on the team. LA can then pursue after Marcus Camby as a PF option in Free Agency. Dam that Mitch Kupchack for being so sort sighted and only thinking off Kobe. "Crap Player = Crap GM". He's killed the Shaq/T-Mac possibility in LA. LA are going to regret this in the future as I'm sure Magic Johnson will understand.

    Where's Jerry West when you need him. I would take T-Mac over Kobe at the moment. For 2 reasons:

    1. Kobe's court case. (The court are likely to throw a 'black' athlete in jail just to prove a point)

    2. T-Mac has been on his own trying to do everything "all by himself". He is at the stage where he realises he needs a "team" to win. Unlikely to be "selfish" as Kobe is at the moment. LA combo of Shaq/T-Mac would definetly win. Plus believe me, Shaq would have taken a pay-cut if approached in the right way.

    Also if LA trades Shaq to Dallas it makes sense for them to acquire Dirk and Walker as their front line is thin without Shaq and Malone. But given both are PFs, I would only keep Dirk and trade Walker to Portland for Abdul-Rahim and Ratliff. This would strengthen their front-line and take little used Abdul-Rahim away from Portland.

    As for the Magic, they're likely to pick Howard or Okafor at No.1. So it makes no sense to me that they then acquire Dirk and Walker to compete with him. They're better off getting Finely and Jamieson to play at SG and SF to help him. Otherwise what's the point of having Walker and Dirk, and Okafor on the bench.

    For LA and Magic, if the trade does occur one of the combo is more sensible:

    (Dirk/Walker) and (Finely/Jamieson)

    Dallas gets Shaq, T-Mac, and they must hope to resign their PG in Nash. This team is good enough to challenge right away in the West. Hell, Shaq might even get into Malone's ear about joining the Mavs. Then you'll have Nash, Daniels, T-Mac, Malone, Shaq.
    "Seems, madam! Nay it is, I know not seems!" - Hamlet, William Shakespeare

  17. #17

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    Jim Gray on ESPN is reporting that McGrady (and others) is going to be traded to Houston for Francis, Mobley (and others) contigent upon what happens in the Expansion Draft.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1825839

    I'm not sure if this is good for Houston or not. Obviously, they are trying to set up a Lakers-like team with a dominant center and a dominant wing-player. Still... Francis AND Mobley is a hefty price.
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    Senior Member Long's Avatar
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    If the above trade does go ahead then I predict that Houston will do very well. Part of the reason to Houston's scrappy play last season was Mobley, Francis and Jackson "jacking" up far too many shots and taking too many "ill advised" shots and missing them. I think Francis/Mobley/Jackson combined took around 40 shots per game combined at around 40%. Limiting Yao to just 12 shots at 55%. Yes T-Mac will take shots, but probably "sensible" shots.

    Not giving Yao Ming enough touches of the ball inside was a downside to Francis/Mobley. Like I said above, T-Mac has reached a point where he's averaged 25+ pts for many season, and being on a losing team. He is unlikely to be as self-fish as the other players. The trade for Houston is actually a great one.

    Rockets reportedly will get T-Mac, Juwan Howard, and Tyrone Lue. Left on the Rockets roster are, Yao Ming, Jimmy Jackson, Mo Taylor. A starting line-up of:

    PG: Tyrone Lue
    SG: Tracy McGrady
    SF: Jim Jackson
    PF: Juwan Howard
    C: Yao Ming

    Looks pretty good to me. T-Mac and Yao as the main scoring options. Jackson and Howard to chip in as needed. Tyrone Lue will continue to develop as a player. It's a pitty Yao hasn't reached the same level of offensive/defensive dominance as Shaq, otherwise I could pick this team as the Western Conference Champions provided everyone is healthy. Yao Ming can only improve next season.

    Go Rockets. This team will trounce Kobe and the Lakers for years to come. Well done to Mitch Kupchack.
    "Seems, madam! Nay it is, I know not seems!" - Hamlet, William Shakespeare

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    Senior Member Long's Avatar
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    Being so out of touch with players contracts and all.... But could Houston go after Steve Nash even with Howard, Yao Ming, and T-Mac on the books I wonder???
    "Seems, madam! Nay it is, I know not seems!" - Hamlet, William Shakespeare

  20. #20

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    Originally posted by Long
    Being so out of touch with players contracts and all.... But could Houston go after Steve Nash even with Howard, Yao Ming, and T-Mac on the books I wonder???
    Howard is in the 2nd (or 3rd) year of a 5 year $30million contract. T-Mac is in the middle of a 7 year $93 million deal. Yao is still in his rookie deal of 4 years, $18 million.

    So, on average, those 3 players should take up around $25 million a year.

    I've no idea where the luxury tax for the NBA starts.
    春花秋月几时了,
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