Huan Zhu Ge Ge III - The Plot

[invisible_dolphinbay]

Sigh likewise, a hater of Erkang, a fervent one at that. After all these years, this Erkang character sure can still evoke strong emotions in the viewers, just like Xiao Yan Zi; one either loves him or loathes him, no in between. Mushiness? no arguments here, but your use of “despicableness” on Erkang indisputably blasted our opinions off to the very opposite far ends of the hate him or love him spectrum. We just have to agree to disagree.

It’s has been so long since I last watched the Hzgg saga, but now I’m more than happy to re-watch, and re-read, and re-discuss this series again. A little self- amusement I will allow myself at this point in time.

Opinions without concrete reasoning I will bypass, like Erkang is sooo irritating because he’s always hovering protectively over Ziwei and spouting those mushy lines. Opinions are just feelings, sometimes those feelings are so nebulous that the writers can’t even put into cohesive words as to why they feel that way. So live and let live.

But opinions with concrete ‘evidence’ I can rebut, and will in this case. So now lets debate Erkang’s despicableness in this one scene. Sure took me a while to find that scene in the book. In case you’re interested, here’s an online book for your future reference as to why you hate Erkang so, besides his despicableness and mushiness, of course.

http://www.shuku.net/novels/qiongyao/hzgg/hzgg24.html (actual scene in book)
http://www.shuku.net/novels/qiongyao/qiongyao.html (qiong yao’s book catalog)

I beg to defer, again I think you took Erkang’s words out of context.
Scene review:
The scene starts with XYZ tearfully recounting how she became gege. The players in the room are the Emperor, the Empress, Ling Fei, the whole Fu family, Yong Qi, Ziwei, Jin Suo and of course, XYZ. The air is filled with tension and fear. And the two geges’ and Jin Suo’s lives hang in balance at the Emperor’s whim. The Fu family’s and Ling Fei’s lives will have dire repercussions too.

The Empress is the only who is shamelessly enjoying every minute of this situation. Whenever she could, she would pour oil to stir up the fire and the suspicion in the Emperor’s heart. She accuses the girls of conspiring against the Emperor and demands to know why.

Both XYZ and Ziwei tried to get the Emperor to understand their predicament. The Emperor is fuming with so much hurt and anger at what he deems as the girls’ betrayal, that he couldn’t think straight, let alone be receptive.

Yong Qi cries::
Huang Ah ma, listen to me. There’s no conspiring hearts among us. Although, we've deceived Huang Ah ma, all we ever wanted is to make HAM happy. XYZ and Ziwei had never harm HAM. They had tried so hard to make HAM happy.

HAM abruptly turns to Fulun and bellows:
Fulun, Your whole family knew of this secret, why didn’t you speak up?
Fulun: Huang Shang, my hands are tied; there're too many concerns.

Fu Jin seeing the tide turns against them, speaks out:

Huang Shang, please listen to what I have to say. When we found out Ziwei’s real identity, we were skeptical, too. We could only take her into our residence, and meanwhile investigate her claim. We didn’t know what else to do. We could only ascertain her claim when XYZ escaped from the palace one day and they met. After that, we overcame obstacles to finally get Ziwei into court. The two young ladies since then have kept Huang Shang company. Your majesty didn’t suffer any loss. Even though it is deceiving your majesty, it did come out of love for your majesty.

Erkang continues in the same vein as Fu Jin's pleas as to why the Fus have kept their silence.

Erkang's words:
Huang Shang, please think this through carefully. At that time, when we first saw Ziwei, and knew of the geges mistaken identities. We could have had Ziwei killed and let this secret be buried forever. We didn’t do that. We could have had sent Ziwei to a faraway place, never to contact the Emperor. We didn’t do that, either. Instead, we let Ziwei stayed, subsequently sending her to court. Yes, uncontrollable circumstances tied our hands, but what is most decisive, (for their final decision) is Ziwei’s strong love for Huang Shang, which is truly irresistible. ……”

Erkang could have said more, perhaps even include something 'productive' on XYZ so as to keep the viewers happy, but, unfortunately, the Empress chooses this time to forcefully cut him off. He was dangerously heading toward the common thread of all the others' pleas, which is, that this charade came about because of a daughter’s need and love to reconcile with her father. The fact that Erkang chose to answer the Emperor's question first seems apprioriate to me.

So, I don’t find Erkang’s plea despicable at all. As I see it, he is, in fact, continuing his mother’s exposition on why the Fu family kept mum. (After all, the Emperor did pose this question to Fu Lun. ) Fu Lun, for whatever reason, couldn’t speak up, so his wife and son speak on his behalf to try to make the Emperor see their situations. All Erkang did was to expound the circumstances faced them at that time, and the solutions and way outs they could have had taken. That the one and only reason for this charade is the strong love of a daughter for a father, a love so strong that she is willing to face death to achieve it. That’s how I see Erkang’s plea. Don't understanding why Erkang's response seems despicable to you. Guess, we just have to agree to disagree on Erkang.

P/S Btw, try not to get stuck in a 7-year-old mentality.

"could have said more" is not acceptable. and he wouldnt' have said more considering that he never did in any other occasions either. (i'm sorry, i'm not trying to get into an arguement with you. please don't take it personally)

okay, you seem to know this series much better than me and seem to be able to rebut everything, but i just want to say, why are there so many "such scenes" where er kang just happens to seem selfish. there are too many of them. one or two might seem okay, where he only focuses on zi wei, but there are just too many. other ones:

qiang long confronts er kang and yong qi about how ZW and XYZ have to change to make the empress like them. yong qi says something that speaks for both gege's while er kang says "its reasonable that lao fou yie doesn't like XYZ, but zi wei is wen rou and xian shu, how is it that she can't get the love of lao fou yie?" in this scene he didn't particulary annoy me that much, but its just one of those countless little scenes that are annoying.

also, i just HATED er kang when he had that whole moralet talk with yong qi when yong qi told him that he didn't do it with zhi hua. if you listened to him talk there, you would think that he's the most reasonable saint. however, once yong qi does do it with zhi hua, he shows no comapssion for him and actually TAKES THE OTHER SIDE FOR HIMSELF. when zi wei asked him what he would do, he was like "it WOULD NOT happen to me. and even if it would, i don't have the "ability (ben shi) that yong qi has" i was sooo angry when he said that. he was the one that talked yong qi and xiao yang zi into accepting zhi hua but he is now the one that talks like that.

also, as much as i dislike XYZ, i like how she has alot of care for her friends. same with yong qi (i don't dislike yong qi) in teh past, whenever er kang had problems like qing er, jing suo, sai ya XYZ and YQ were very intent on helping him. However, for zhi hua, er kang provided no help (being in a dangerous situation is NOT an excuse.) and fine then if he's not gonna put in all his effort to help. he even makes a joke out of it. when zi wei was talking about yong qi's situation with zhi hua, er kang was smiling, having a good time and said "its tu liu jing yang gong" (jing yang gong is overflowed with vinager) i was sooo annoyed at his expression and everything.

and also, speaking back to how he talked yong qi into doing it with zhi hua and how a person has to have "xin" and "yi", well, it so annoyed me when he said that he would marry mu sha when he wanted her drugs and then went back on his word. i know, those words shouldn't count, but just because of everything he said before, i think they should. i was especially annoyed when he was on the roof saying stuff like "my love for zi wei is a legend. that legend is i wil l only marrry and love her. wo yao ding le zhe ge sheng hua" i'm sorry, but the fact that he's so intent on thsi "sheng hua" is so annoying when he talked yong qi out of it.

and please, don't get me started on dong er

[yearning]

I just find Yong Qi an idiot for loving Xiao Yan Zi--yes yes I know that she's beautiful, cute, kind, etc etc, but I just think he could do much better. Just my opinion on the whole thing. Sure opposites attract, but in this case, it's a bit too extreme. I would prefer a guy who is more serious about his career than love, love, and more love every single day.

I'm neutral about Er Kang--he was annoying and mushy at some parts, but I don't have strong feelings towards him, positive or negative.

What do you mean by having it worse? I didn't watch III, but from II, I would say Yong Qi--having to deal with that mental breakdown case...is gonna be a lotta work. At least the most Zi Wei does is whine in jealousy.

[invisible_dolphinbay]

I just find Yong Qi an idiot for loving Xiao Yan Zi--yes yes I know that she's beautiful, cute, kind, etc etc, but I just think he could do much better. Just my opinion on the whole thing. Sure opposites attract, but in this case, it's a bit too extreme. I would prefer a guy who is more serious about his career than love, love, and more love every single day.

I'm neutral about Er Kang--he was annoying and mushy at some parts, but I don't have strong feelings towards him, positive or negative.

What do you mean by having it worse? I didn't watch III, but from II, I would say Yong Qi--having to deal with that mental breakdown case...is gonna be a lotta work. At least the most Zi Wei does is whine in jealousy.

i agree with you. i actually don't particularly like any of teh characters in HZGG except for yong qi, but i find zi wei more tolerable than XYZ and and YQ better than EK. i remember as a child, i used to fantazize that YQ could be with ZW and EK with XYZ. haha

[kiropuppy]

wow.. you guys write a lot....

anyways.. hated everyone in HZGG 3....

and that idea of YQ with ZW & XYZ with EK is just grroooosss & ewww.... sorry

i think YQ & XYZ are like the cutest couple because.. well, their both immature.. like XYZ's jealousy in HZGG 1 and YQ's jealousy in HZGG 2 was sooo cute!

ZW and EK are the more mature couple, the "understanding & reasonable" couple.

[grace]

why are there so many "such scenes" where er kang just happens to seem selfish. there are too many of them. one or two might seem okay, where he only focuses on zi wei, but there are just too many.

Er, because ErKang just irritates the hell out of you, so much so that every itty, bitty, little things he did or didn't do, said or didn't say, or even looked askance, rub you the wrong way. But rant away. So far, no character has managed to get under my skin yet. Anyway, it was fun debating with you. At least you can vividly describe why you are so irritated by Erkang. A discussion is not much fun if every body holds similar view as oneself.

Anyway, you did hit on one scene where I think Erkang, and Ziwei, for the matter, behaved out of the ordinary. That's when they tried to persuade Yong Qi to bed Zhi Hua. Now, mind you, I don't hold Erkang responsible for such insensitivity at all, for I believe if left on his own, Erkang, (the true character) would never have been so nosy and inconsiderate as to butt his nose into someone else personal affairs. (Rebuttal?) I consider that personality incongruity a glaring failure in Qiong Yao’s writing. Definitely can't imagine prim and proper Ziwei talking sex so openly... and among Men either! Horror!

when zi wei asked him what he would do, he was like "it WOULD NOT happen to me. and even if it would, i don't have the "ability (ben shi) that yong qi has" i was sooo angry when he said that. he was the one that talked yong qi and xiao yang zi into accepting zhi hua but he is now the one that talks like that.

That’s just man talk…ribbing a friend’s virility. Yong Qi sure got him into a pickle. Most men don’t consider that a hardship except for the weidos (YQ and EK). Erkang can afford to act all superior because he doesn’t have to face with that dilemma. Even ZiWei gives him the evil eye for his unsympathetic response. So go on.. rant ahead. For myself, I find his remark quite… witty. Haha!

But, no one pointed a gun at Yong Qi's head. Remember, one can lead a horse to the water but can't force him to drink. Yong Qi has to be responsible for his own actions.

However you view the situation, this, you must keep in mind at all times; Yong Qi is a prince, a crown prince at that, who is expected, sooner than later, to provide the crown with at least an heir. A responsibility and destiny he cannot hope to escape. So sooner or later, he’s going to acquire a few concubines, as the custom of his time dictates. At this time, Zhi Hua is viewed as a pawn by the group, a victim if you will, by circumstances. Yong Qi is dishonorable when he treats Zhi Hua so shabbily.

I just find Yong Qi an idiot for loving Xiao Yan Zi-

A short and sweet judgment. Totally agree. Love is blind.

[yearning]

Besides, the whole idea about monogamy is not really in effect during ancient times, especially to a crown prince. You can't blame him or anyone else for wanting him to take concubines--that's the way it was back then. People can't use today's standards of true love to judge people from the Qing Dynasty. That's why I find it HIGHLY unrealistic when ancient couples talk about all this true and everlasting love....Pff, when most men back then had tons of wives and the women were mostly submissive. But of course, film-makers gotta insert unrealistic and imaginary "bratty spoiled girls" who get whatever they want, yell and scream loudly in a very uncharactersitically-ancient way.

[invisible_dolphinbay]

Er, because ErKang just irritates the hell out of you, so much so that every itty, bitty, little things he did or didn't do, said or didn't say, or even looked askance, rub you the wrong way. But rant away. So far, no character has managed to get under my skin yet. Anyway, it was fun debating with you. At least you can vividly describe why you are so irritated by Erkang. A discussion is not much fun if every body holds similar view as oneself.



Anyway, you did hit on one scene where I think Erkang, and Ziwei, for the matter, behaved out of the ordinary. That's when they tried to persuade Yong Qi to bed Zhi Hua. Now, mind you, I don't hold Erkang responsible for such insensitivity at all, for I believe if left on his own, Erkang, (the true character) would never have been so nosy and inconsiderate as to butt his nose into someone else personal affairs. (Rebuttal?) I consider that personality incongruity a glaring failure in Qiong Yao’s writing. Definitely can't imagine prim and proper Ziwei talking sex so openly... and among Men either! Horror!



That’s just man talk…ribbing a friend’s virility. Yong Qi sure got him into a pickle. Most men don’t consider that a hardship except for the weidos (YQ and EK). Erkang can afford to act all superior because he doesn’t have to face with that dilemma. Even ZiWei gives him the evil eye for his unsympathetic response. So go on.. rant ahead. For myself, I find his remark quite… witty. Haha!

But, no one pointed a gun at Yong Qi's head. Remember, one can lead a horse to the water but can't force him to drink. Yong Qi has to be responsible for his own actions.

However you view the situation, this, you must keep in mind at all times; Yong Qi is a prince, a crown prince at that, who is expected, sooner than later, to provide the crown with at least an heir. A responsibility and destiny he cannot hope to escape. So sooner or later, he’s going to acquire a few concubines, as the custom of his time dictates. At this time, Zhi Hua is viewed as a pawn by the group, a victim if you will, by circumstances. Yong Qi is dishonorable when he treats Zhi Hua so shabbily.

Usually, i don't tend to feel such strong hate for a character either (or maybe that's not true now that i think about it.) the reason why i dislike er kang so much has to do with my stupidity of once liking him. you see, watching HZGG as a child, i was like "hmmm.... er kang is the main character. main character= good even though i don't like him. therefore, I have to like him. hmmm... but i still don't like him. well, i like zi wei and therefore, liking zi wei means that i have to like er kang... therefore, i like him" sadly, i succeeded in making myself put away all doubts of er kang and actually liking him for a few years till my love of HZGG worned off somehow. so now, its like my years of dislike is uncovered and i can't find enough bad things to say about him.

also there is a very good adj to describe er kang (my cousin said this) "sour". Not sour as in you're jeaolous of something you can't get, but the feeling of wierdness and mushiness.

i agree with you on the yong qi zhi hua incident. i think qiong yao just needed a reason for yong qi to do it with zhi hua. if everyone supported him (which , under normal circumstance, like you said, they would have) yong qi would have happily resisted zhi hua with everyones help.


this has nothing to do with our debate (and actually goes against me) but this is the only scene where i liked er kang. it was in HZGG III when the whole group was angry at qiang long for xia ying ying and everybody was going to go back to the palace with huang hou. er kang kind of acted as the "speaker" of the group and the way he was talking was so funny. he was describing how everyone's gonna leave, but every few sentences, he pauses and says "but i willl stay". its like "zi wei wants to go back and keep huang hou company. XYZ wants to... but(smile) I will stay. Yong qi.... They are... But (smile) i will stay" i dont know, it was more of the humor that made me like him for one moment.

also, i find it pretty sad that zi wei was SO happy when er kang and her were on the boat and zi wei found out that er kang was thinking of dong er. usually, i would find a fatherl lovign his son a given, but the fact that er kang's love for dong er made zi wei SO happy, made me feel sorry for her

[grace]

i agree with you. i actually don't particularly like any of teh characters in HZGG except for yong qi, but i find zi wei more tolerable than XYZ and and YQ better than EK. i remember as a child, i used to fantazize that YQ could be with ZW and EK with XYZ. haha

and that idea of YQ with ZW & XYZ with EK is just grroooosss & ewww.... sorry

invisible_dolphinbay: Your comment jolted my memory of having written just such a parody on an Erkang and XYZ pairing. Rummaged my computer, and sure enough, buried deep within and long since forgotten is the story. It's too long to post in this thread so will in Fan Fiction. If interested, please visit.

[invisible_dolphinbay]

invisible_dolphinbay: Your comment jolted my memory of having written just such a parody on an Erkang and XYZ pairing. Rummaged my computer, and sure enough, buried deep within and long since forgotten is the story. It's too long to post in this thread so will in Fan Fiction. If interested, please visit.

i really want to read it. but why did you pair them up if you liked er kang and didn't like XYZ? (i kind of inferred that from your comments) is it because you dont' like zi wei?

[kiropuppy]

i think the whole story of hzgg is not supposed to be realistic, just supposed to be entertaining. but hzgg 3.. it was okay, only if it's NOT called huan zhu ge ge!! it should just be called Tian Shang Ren Jian and all the characters would have different names and everything.. maybe then the TV show would have been more praised.

[grace]

i really want to read it. but why did you pair them up if you liked er kang and didn't like XYZ? (i kind of inferred that from your comments) is it because you dont' like zi wei?

Well, check it out in the Fan Fiction. Worte because of my sense of wicked humor. I like Erkang but I do see his idiosycrancies, and understand why others dislike him. I like XYZ in Hzgg1 but find her utterly annoying and stupid and immature and very inconsiderate. She seems to have more bad points than good in Hzgg2, and lets not get into Hzgg3. But it is difficult to dislike Vicki's XYZ for long; she makes me laugh despite my annoyance.

[hmschocolate]

*cracks up on all your arguing over Er Kang*
I don’t like Er Kang but I don’t dislike him either. Yes, he can be a bit to the extreme about Zi wei. And I was annoyed about his other sarcastic comment he made to Yong Qi when they found out Zhi hua was pregnant. He said, “should I give you my congratulations?” and had this really stupid smirk on his face. Argh! I wanted to strangle him then. And I felt sorry for Yong Qi beign in that position then, despite my not liking him in HZIII, when Xiao Yan Zi obviously looks upset and his best friend can’t even resist a stupid comment.

Anyway – Yong Qi: he married Zhi hua because Xiao Jian’s life was in danger. While I can understand why he might in the end consummate his marriage with her, because after all, looking from zhi hua’s POV, the poor girl’s barely 18, she gets into this marriage and her husband totally ignores her! And even XYZ obviously understand how painful it was for zhi hua to be stuck in that situation considering she made yong qi go to zhi hua’s room. But having a baby with her is just qiong yao beign overdramatic. The baby doesn’t contribute anything to the plot!! All it did is make people hate yong qi’s character more because he ends up abandoning his son. The baby doesn’t need to exist AT ALL. They could still leave without the baby! I mean, the poor kid. What’s he going to do when he grows up?

And grace: see, that’s my point. In HZ I and II we were sufficiently engaged in the cuteness of the actors and plot enough to overlook the flaws of the characters. But in HZIII, they ALL annoyed me. Especially Yong Qi, and that’s because I loved him so much in HZI and II.

And I think Yong Qi definitely has it worst because his troubles actually had consequences. he ended up leaving zhi hua and the baby! he will never ever escape the knowledge that he did that and the guilt. what about er kang? so his little struggle with mu sha was painful, but he didn't lose anything in the end. he ends up happy with zhi wei again. thats why I thought the whole musha story was useless. it didn't DO anything!

[grace]

*cracks up on all your arguing over Er Kang*
.........And I was annoyed about his other sarcastic comment he made to Yong Qi when they found out Zhi hua was pregnant. He said, “should I give you my congratulations?” and had this really stupid smirk on his face. Argh! I wanted to strangle him then. ...........

........The baby doesn’t need to exist AT ALL. They could still leave without the baby! I mean, the poor kid. What’s he going to do when he grows up?

............... what about er kang? so his little struggle with mu sha was painful, but he didn't lose anything in the end. he ends up happy with zhi wei again. thats why I thought the whole musha story was useless. it didn't DO anything!

I’m all cracked up myself. Lol! Got to thank my absent boss for such leisure. That’s called male bonding; digging at your friend’s virility, that is. Unlike us females, where we would outwardly hug and commiserate with each other's misfortunes, regardless how we may feel inside. Anyway, I like Erkang’s snide remark, quite refreshing, and I like the look of dismay on Yong Qi's face even more. Well done, both of them. Anyway, Hz3 is so depressing; I’ll take humor wherever I can find it.

The baby is very essential to the plot. Without the baby, the Chinese government would not have accepted HZ3 for showing in China because of its many restrictive filming rules. One such rule is that a TV series cannot distort Chinese history too much. (but what is too much?) Historically, Yong Qi was the fifth son of Qian Long who died at age 25, leaving behind a widow and a son. Mian Yi. So Qiong Yao had no choice but to get her storyline superficially reflects history. But then, no one could really prove that Mian Yi was truly Yong Yi’s biologoical son; historical records could be distorted too, right?

Yes, Yong Qi definitely has it worse because of the consequences. I, for one, won't not believe in the happily ever after ending for him and XYZ.

I believe Qiong Yao wrote Musha and Erkang more for herself than for her viewers. In her printed interviews, she discussed the process of HZ3. Right after, HZ2, she planned to go right into the 3rd installment, and the cast had agreed to that. Then came 9-11 tragedy. She was horrified by that atrocity that she suffered a writer’s block. The gege world seemed so frivolous now. A few days (9-21) after, Taiwan suffered a serious earthquake causing untold sufferings and loss of lives. Then 2 catastrophes struck even closer to home; her father died. and her husband became seriously ill, almost at his deathbed. She nursed him back to health. Hz3 project was dropped. She told the cast there won't be a Hz3.

When she finally picked up her pen again, the subject of mortality consumed her. She used Erkang’s death and Musha’s bringing him back life to explore the realm of death. Zhou Jie, in one of his phone chats with his fans, said that he actually suggested Erkang be a real ghost but Qiong Yao vetoed that idea because in Taiwan, tv series with ghosts or demons or such, can’t be shown at the 8 o’clock time slot.

[Sparky]

i agree with you. i actually don't particularly like any of teh characters in HZGG except for yong qi, but i find zi wei more tolerable than XYZ and and YQ better than EK. i remember as a child, i used to fantazize that YQ could be with ZW and EK with XYZ. haha

EWWW INCEST!!

Now, I agree at Xiao Yan Zi starts getting pretty annoying by HZGG II and really just not cool in HZGG III (plus Vicki Zhao had left by then), but I have to prefer XYZ to Zi Wei!! Like people acknowledge the fact that Xiao Yan Zi is unreasonable and annoying, whatever, but so many people always say Zi Wei is the calm, reasonable, intelligent one. Except she's not! Zi Wei's actually a lot more selfish than Xiao Yan Zi, when I consider it. Sure, she was willing to give up her ge ge title in HZGG I, but just the way that she always tries to act selfless and then starts crying so that it ends up she's giving up nothing...bothers me so much.

Plus I totally think XYZ and YQ are meant for each other. Yong Qi has to give up a lot for Xiao Yan Zi, but so does Er Kang. Like Er Kang has to deal with Zi Wei being sick 24/7 and all of Zi Wei's crying.

And seriously, Er Kang would just SCARE Xiao Yan Zi to death. Plus they both have kind of loud personalities...like Er Kang's all commanding, and Xiao Yan Zi always goes on with her weird blabbing. Yong Qi is

Finally, I highly doubt the Chinese government would censor HZGG III for any reason. 1/2 were so popular. Anyway, Qiong Yao's already distorted history to like the 100x degree, so I really think the baby was Qiong Yao's idea, and when she found out Yong Qi had a son, she was like, oh, we'll add him.

Like if HZGG had just ended at 2, then Yong Qi wouldn't have had a son and widow yet. So yeah. I don't see how it matters.

[invisible_dolphinbay]

EWWW INCEST!!

.

okay, of course when i said, i wanted YQ and ZW together, i meant, under teh conditiosn that if they are not siblings.

[hmschocolate]

Finally, I highly doubt the Chinese government would censor HZGG III for any reason. 1/2 were so popular. Anyway, Qiong Yao's already distorted history to like the 100x degree, so I really think the baby was Qiong Yao's idea, and when she found out Yong Qi had a son, she was like, oh, we'll add him.

Like if HZGG had just ended at 2, then Yong Qi wouldn't have had a son and widow yet. So yeah. I don't see how it matters.

yeah if you have to stick to historical accuracy then the whole series is a bit redundant...you don't even know if HZGG really existed. and Zhi wei certainly probably never did exist. but then I couldln't see a point in Yong qi leaving in the end because I think it was all done for historical accuracy. he won't live happily ever after with that guilt hanging over him. sigh.

I'm sorry, I loved Yong Qi. I just can't stand how he gets taken from beign a perfect Prince Charming in HZI and II to how he was in HZIII...Consequently, I hated HZIII...

[grace]

I'm sorry, I loved Yong Qi. I just can't stand how he gets taken from beign a perfect Prince Charming in HZI and II to how he was in HZIII...Consequently, I hated HZIII...

Hope you're not having a heartburn discussing Hz3. Lol

Finally, I highly doubt the Chinese government would censor HZGG III for any reason. 1/2 were so popular. Anyway, Qiong Yao's already distorted history to like the 100x degree, so I really think the baby was Qiong Yao's idea, and when she found out Yong Qi had a son, she was like, oh, we'll add him.

Like if HZGG had just ended at 2, then Yong Qi wouldn't have had a son and widow yet. So yeah. I don't see how it matters.

Yes, many so called historical series shown in China are anything but. However, the Chinese censors have the last say in it. If they dislike your face, then too bad, your story outline is just not accepted to their historical TV series guidelines. Change and resubmit.

One would think so with the clout of previous HZ success. However, I remember reading a Qiong Yao’s interview (can’t find the source now) where she described the problems of filming and broadcasting her shows in China. Before the producers could film their shows in China, they must submit their plot propsosals to the appropriate agency for approval (euphemism for censorship). Being a Taiwanese from renegade Taiwan, Qiong Yao didn’t (not sure about now ) have much clout with Chinese bureaucracy; which is why her partnership with Hunan is so imperative to smoothing out her operations in China. IIrc, she had had to change her story proposal (outline) several times (not sure why, maybe Yong Qi was missing a son?) before being accepted. But my memory maybe faulty, and I will humbly stand corrected if wrong.

And yeah, her storyline could do without a baby, but I guess she wanted to truly end the saga once and for all, which is Yong Qi must ‘die’ and must leave an heir. However, I’m with the general consensus that HZ2’s ending is perfect as it was. But all this is moot now.

A more recent incident will highlight the high handedness of Chinese censors.

The two links below recounted the fate of a tv series: Mei Hua Dan An. It is a thriller series much anticipated by the Beijing people. The series has the Communist government (good guys) pitted against Taiwanese moles with insurgent intent (bad guys) in China during her reconstruction years. The series had been hotly televised in most TV stations around China, breaking viewing records. It was scheduled to air in Btv in Beijing in April 2004; but was pulled out at the last minute by censors on the pretext that the film might be overly scary to some viewers because it had marketed itself as a horror series. But rumors had it that the government had felt that the portrayal of the Taiwanese antagonists was too sympathetical. Gasp, some moles actually seem like honorable people with high principles. Finally, after an 8-month hiatus when it was allowed to air on Btv in Jan 2005, the series was mercilessly butchered. Nevertheless, it stiil garnered top, if not the highest, rating on that station for year 2005. Bear in mind, Btv is an important TV station because of its huge viewer market.

Any show could easily suffer the fate of MHDA, be it on a political issue or a trivial historical discrepancy, the thing is the censor bureau has the last say in its fate in China. Producers esp. Taiwanese producers have to get on the right side of the capricious government censors, else their hard work would be greatly compromised if not for naught. Keep in mind, we are talking about a communist agency here. I rest my case on ROCH. ZJZ must have ticked off some important bigshots in the censor agency, I think.

credit: Zhoujie web
MHDA1
mhda2

[hmschocolate]

Hope you're not having a heartburn discussing Hz3. Lol

lol. I do wonder why I'm sticking to this thread like this. I'd do better trying to forget I ever saw HZ3...

Oh well...I do wish qiong yao's left it to end at HZ2...but as you said, that's a moot point.

well at least now I can blame the failure of HZ3 plot on the Chinese scensorship... and the change of cast on 9-11. Because if she didnt' have that huge gap between writing the old cast would be back for HZ3, wouldn't they? But then again you are right, after all those tragedies, the plot would probably have changed drastically. *sigh* obviously that's why HZ3 was so depressing.

[Sparky]

Haha well there's no Huan Zhu Ge Ge thread, so I guess all I can do is rant on the HZGG 3 thread...

I just still think if Qiong Yao had never mentioned Zhi Hua, a baby or anything wouldn't be necessary. For historical accuracy, it could just be that Yong Qi still hasn't had his baby yet. Anyway, HZGG's already distorted history to the extreme. Like Xiao Yan Zi and Zi Wei both existing...nah. That IS the point of Historical Fiction.

I think censorship is more common when it pertains to the communist govt or China's kind of pride...since the Manchurians were ruling back then, I don't think it'd matter that much...

I think that HZGG 3 should've been on their children, just like ROCH was...I mean, I love Xiao Yan Zi and Yong Qi, and Zi Wei and Er Kang are okay, but we get bored of the same old people over and over again.

[grace]

I think that HZGG 3 should've been on their children, just like ROCH was...I mean, I love Xiao Yan Zi and Yong Qi, and Zi Wei and Er Kang are okay, but we get bored of the same old people over and over again.

no arguments there!