Huan Zhu Ge Ge III - The Plot

[hmschocolate]

yeah and the thing with making sequels about the same people, it makes it seem like the author is just making trouble for the characters for the sake of having a story line, thus a series. I mean, give them a break! they're married. leave them alone!

[Sparky]

Yeah way back in HZGG 1, the plot was still fresh...by HZGG 2 you could tell Auntie Qiong Yao was starting to search for ideas...like seriously, Qiong Yao makes Xiao Yan Zi stupider in HZGG 2 than she is in HZGG 1. And Zi Wei gets hurt even more and always almost dies, supposedly because of that knife back in HZGG 1. Then the number of times the two got in trouble with Tai Hou...that's ridiculous. Plus Huang Hou becoming evil AGAIN and becoming good at the end AGAIN (with Zi Wei forgiving her AGAIN)...

But at least at the end of HZGG 2, something had happened. They had gotten married. But HZGG 3 was just like...pointless. Obviously they weren't going to get a divorce. So that's where Zhi Hua comes into play. I think Zhi Hua and her baby were more for Qiong Yao fishing for plot lines than pleasing the Chinese government.

[hmschocolate]

yep. I think XYZ gets stupider with ever installment. She's not stupid. She's just uneducated. There is a difference!!! Honestly!

And I agree with Sparky, Huang Hou flicking through phases of being nice and evil is just...unrealistic.

Oh well, no use crying over spilled milk. They've already made the series. Here we are just hollering how they shouldn't have made it. But it's done.

*sigh* I really do wish I never watched HZ3 though.

[sufan]

Yeah way back in HZGG 1, the plot was still fresh...by HZGG 2 you could tell Auntie Qiong Yao was starting to search for ideas...like seriously, Qiong Yao makes Xiao Yan Zi stupider in HZGG 2 than she is in HZGG 1. And Zi Wei gets hurt even more and always almost dies, supposedly because of that knife back in HZGG 1. Then the number of times the two got in trouble with Tai Hou...that's ridiculous. Plus Huang Hou becoming evil AGAIN and becoming good at the end AGAIN (with Zi Wei forgiving her AGAIN)...

But at least at the end of HZGG 2, something had happened. They had gotten married. But HZGG 3 was just like...pointless. Obviously they weren't going to get a divorce. So that's where Zhi Hua comes into play. I think Zhi Hua and her baby were more for Qiong Yao fishing for plot lines than pleasing the Chinese government.

Wow you guys wrote alot!

There was a time that I watched HZGG3 and had similar opinions and long essays on my thoughts on this as wekk. Think I left some long emails on this a couple years back...

Is this series being aired now somewhere that is resulting in a "resurection" of this thread?

I agree with so much you said--HZGGI was the favorite..,the second--yeah quite exageratting and XYZ was so annoying in the second, but the third was gosh--yeah pointless..

yep in hzgg3, I still think YQ very much loved XYZ; yet can't accept the child thing....

but again you guys said it all...! agree.

[kiropuppy]

why is it that when xiao yan zi had the arrow pierce through her heart, she made it seem like there was no problem, but when zi wei had that knife pierce through her, it was the biggest deal ever?

xyz's actually very smart, just uneducated. it's her literacy that made me laugh a lot in HZGG 2... and her silliness. i don't know why people didn't like her silliness, but i think that's what made the whole comedy of the series.

[hmschocolate]

Kiropuppy: my point exactly...

Sufan: Actually I resurrected this thread. I watched HZ3 a year ago actually but I just posted once on here and didn't think anyone would say anything back. lol. all my posts on this forum is in the thread. scary.

[yearning]

I don't think it was her stupidity as much as her immaturity and brattiness in HZGG II. I know it was only a drama, but honestly, women back then at her age, regardless of status, were a lot more aware of their surroundings than her. She acted like she had no consideration of what was happening around her.

I don't remember HER reaction, but everyone else did make a huge deal out of the arrow thing--she got royal treatment and turned into a princess--is that not enough?

[hmschocolate]

yeah but then the arrow never made any complication afterwards. Zhi Wei supposedly nearly died from being tortured in the hand because of her weak state after the knife back in HZI. I mean, is it so necessary to emphasise Zhi Wei's weakness so much?

[yearning]

Well one could argue that XYZ is strong at martial arts and has a higher tolerance for pain? Plus she grew up in a less sheltered environment and is probably used to getting hurt. But yeah I know what you're saying--Qiong Yao's stories are often quite illogical...we have to forget all the rationality when reading/watching her works.

[hmschocolate]

Quite frankly...rationality was not a forte in HZ3. Only one example to give: The scene where Zhi Wei tried to kill herself by jumping down the cliff and was rescued by butterfly.

Anyway...the only thing I really liked about HZ3 was the soundtrack (the music at least). I am...slowly getting used to Leo Ku singing most of the songs. When I first heard Wan Yan Er, I thought it was the most boring performance of a song ever (maybe tha'ts because I listened to it right after listening to Tian Shang Ren Jian which is a lot more upbeat). But listening to it again and again I'm getting used to it...and it sounds Ok now. Listening to it now. I guess you can't have anyone else singing this song, since it's about Yong Qi's feelings for Xiao Yan Zi (Yan Er supposedly)...

Though I do wonder why all the main casts sang Zhi Yao You Ni and Wang Yan didnt sing it but left what would be "her" part for Liu Tao to sing...I would have thought Wang Yan to have a sweet voice. Or maybe she just refused to sing.

Nai He...is heartbreaking. I actually cried when I heard it the first time. It is definitely not a song to listen to when you're feeling upset (as I vaguely was when I first listened to it).

I guess if you compare Dang (HZ1 theme) to Tian Shang Ren Jian (Hz3 theme) you can see such contrast. Dang was innocent and light and happy...while TSRJ is rather heavier that suggests more action...or more drama, rather.

[Sparky]

I guess the series would've been okay and not gotten such harsh critics if it weren't for the fact that it's Huan Zhu Ge Ge.

And see the problem is that HZGG was always irrational...I mean, since when do people sneak concubines out and get away with it, or even the idea of one-on-one relationships...but HZGG 3 was like trying to be more realistic and dramatic (with Zhi Hua) but then there's the butterfly thing...completely weird.

Wang Yan has a really sweet speaking voice, but then again, are there any relationships between speaking and singing voices?

As for the soundtrack, I really didn't like the theme Leo Ku sang...the main one...I'm not sure if it was his singing or just the song itself. However, I really did like the beginning "Zhi Yao You Ni." It had a nice tune. The chorus was all right...

The acting wasn't bad in HZGG 3, now that I reflect upon it...better than the storyline. They tried, but they just can't erase the images of the original.

[hmschocolate]

No, I do agree. the *acting* wasn't bad. actually I though Huang Yi was doing OK, considering she had big shoes to fill. I just don't like Leo because I didn't like his character in QSSYMM and seeing him play Alec's YQ was a bit offputting. So I'm biased. I don't know, Zhou Jie just seemed different as EK this time. Maybe its the ridiculous situation EK was caught in.

But realistically, even the old casts had a lot of expectations to live up to doing HZ2 because of the success of HZ1. So the new cast had a lot of work to do and I thought they were all right.

But the plot was of course disasterous.

I'm listening to Zhi Yao You Ni right now!

I was bothered as well about Leo singing Tian Shang Ren Jian. I think if you're bothered by it it's more because of his singing. I don't particularly like his singing. the lyrics is good though. I heard somewhere though that Leo composed the music for one (or more, can't remember) of the songs. QY still wrote lyrics but he did the music. I think it was TSRJ.

[Sparky]

With the old actors already establishing the images for the characters, it was hard for the new actors to replace them. Like I had already gotten used to associating Xiao Yan Zi with Zhao Wei, etc.

Leo Ku - Yeah I just don't really like Leo Ku...I think his Shuhuan was a bit crazy.

Huang Yi - I liked her as an actress, but I'm not sure if she fits Xiao Yan Zi. Her crying is very good, but she's just not Xiao Yan Zi.

Zhou Jie - I never really liked Zhou Jie and found Er Kang a little scary...but he did a good job during the parts with him and Musha.

Ma Yili - Her acting was good, and I think she's a pretty person, but I think Ruby Lin's Zi Wei looked more...something about Ruby's Zi Wei was more lively (even if it included a lot of crying), while Ma Yili's eyes were really lacking the life Ruby's had. Hate to be shallow and all about looks, but it's TV...visuals are important too. I just think Ruby's look fit the character more.

Like just comparison...




I think Liu Tao and Shui Ling were high points of the series though...they were also the prettiest.

Now I don't know if it was so much Leo's singing...then again, it probably was. However, if Qiong Yao had to pick one cast member to sing the main songs, I can see why she picked Leo. If you listen to them all sing in "Zhi Yao You Ni", I'd say Leo's the best. But if Leo composed the music, that might've been why I didn't really like TSRJ.

[kiropuppy]

the songs were okay in HZGG 3. i still liked the HZGG 1 songs dang and yu die. probably cause the singers were really good.

[hmschocolate]

yah considering most of the songs in HZ3 were about Yong Qi's feelings for XYZ (Wan Yan Er, Tian Shang Ren Jian mostly) you cna't have anyone other than Leo singing them. If I have the right translation for the lyrics of TSRJ, there was one line that I loved in that song - "the whole empire can't compare to your smile." that's so yong qi.
you know it would have been (almost) worth seeing Alec Su in HZ3's Yong Qi if he sang the songs.

speaking of songs and Zhi Yao You Ni - anyone have the english translation to the lyrics for a complete Chinese illiterate?

Ah I don't like Leo either. Shu Huan was...not a great character.
And I agree, Ruby brought a little more life to Zhi Wei. There's helplessness in her portrayal that's so Zhi Wei. Ma Yi Li's Zhi Wei came out as too strong.

[Sparky]

Hmm I don't have the English translation, but I'll give it a shot It's a rough translation, I didn't do it word for word...I'll PM it to you.

I appreciate the love Shuhuan had for Yiping, but he was not a great guy. Like he was so fickle! He said he wanted Yiping, but he couldn't resist hurting Ruping. Also, he was pretty unfair towards Yiping sometimes. Why did he read her diary? Anyway, enough on Shuhuan in the HZGG thread...hehe.

I love when Yong Qi says those comparing Xiao Yan Zi to other things...there's a part when Xiao Yan Zi runs away from the palace (kind of unreasonable, but XYZ started getting unreasonable by HZGG 2, can't blame the actors, it was the script) because she doesn't want to learn poems, and then Yong Qi names a bunch of poets (Li Bai, Bai Ju Yi, etc.) and says none of them can compare to her every bit.

Well, I guess Zi Wei is supposed to be strong somehow, or at least persistent, but Ruby Lin's was basically helpless. Lots of crying. However, I think in HZGG 3 Ma Yili's Zi Wei loved Er Kang and Dong Er too much...

I still hate the fact that they left the palace at the end of HZGG 3...seriously. What was the point of all their hard work getting into the palace and surviving and getting through all their obstacles if they were just going to leave? Plus I never imagined Xiao Yan Zi and Qing Er would be the two to leave Beijing...it should at least be Xiao Yan Zi and Zi Wei. And they rushed the ending so much (but dragged out some scenes way too long, like the Zi Wei tragedy with Er Kang and her suicidal thoughts and seeing Er Kang's ghost etc). Like at the end, problems like Zhi Hua were just dispatched like *that*. As if there were no further complications.

[hmschocolate]

I so agree with you, sparky!!!!!

The part about Er Kang being dead was just...argh! Too long. And then boom, they just do the thing they decided against five years ago! Honestly, it makes their character so fickle!!! And why on earth didn't they just leave in the first bloody place (sorry, I hated the fact that they left)??? They could have saved all this heartbreak and hurting Zhi Hua etc etc. And please dont tell me again it's for historical correctness. You're writing a story here! The point of HZGG is that it's a fairy tale (i.e. happily ever after!). TSRJ just ruined the fairy tale! (And does Zhi Hua get anything in the end? No...one small measly comment then it's back to the fluffy reunion between the emperor and YQ and XYZ.)

I don't like how there's such conflict between ZW's love for EK and Dong Er. I mean, it seems like the two have to fight for her love sometimes, and it shouldn't be like that. it's two different kinds of love. I mean, in the beginning, ZW's all about Dong Er and the moment she loses EK, the moment when Dong Er probably needed her most, she totally pushes him away and ignores him. I'm sorry, that's just...Should't ZW be the one to understand what it's like to lose one's father?? She spent all that time trying to find her own father, for goodness' sake!!

[Sparky]

Er Kang supposedly being dead and then the whole stuff with Zi Wei wanting to commit suicide was way dragged out...and in the end, Er Kang's "death" really had no substance to the plot, except that Mu Sha was introduced...and then Mu Sha kind of just let them go in the end, so the whole thing was just fishing for storylines.

I think the whole Zi Wei and Dong Er thing starts to get on my nerves...I so agree. In the beginning, Zi Wei's all "Dong Er!" and then suddenly Er Kang's gone. Talk about not appreciating the people you have in front of you.

I'd almost feel bad for Zhi Hua, since Yong Qi just leaves her in the end and never comes back, if it weren't for the fact that Zhi Hua tried really hard to replace Xiao Yan Zi while in the palace.

[hmschocolate]

double post... see below

[hmschocolate]

I thought the whole plot as a whole (every part of it - Zhi Hua, Mu Sha) was pointless because none of it seem to matter in the end. I mean, Mu Sha just lets them go and disappears, never to be mentioned in their lives again. Yong Qi gets up and leaves Zhi Hua and Mian Yi, living seemingly happy with XYZ in Da Li. So what was the point of all the struggle? I guess Qiong Yao left a storyline open at the end of HZ2 with Xiao Jian and Qing Er and have to get them together somehow. She can't very well have just a smooth storyline where Xiao Jian lets go of his grudge, accepts the royal family, marries Qing Er and lives in the palace, can she?

I know Qiong Yao probably decided that Yong Qi would leave the palace from the beginning considering she chose a prince who died at such a young age. She could have chosen another prince who actually lived. However, I would rather accept his leaving his title and position at in HZ2 than in 3. I could not tolerate the reasons and circumstances for his leaving in HZ3. In HZ2, he was unattached, his leaving would not make that much of a fuss. His leaving in HZ2 could still end in happily ever after. I cannot believe he could ever truly be happy now, with that guilt of Zhi Hua and Mian Yi hanging over him. I'd rather think it would always create a barrier between him and XYZ and actually be damaging to their relationship. Though of course, the end of TSRJ shows no such thing, one detail I find totally unrealistic.

What I don't understand is how Qiong Yao can not realise how upsetting it woudl be to YQ's reputation with fans to place him in the situation of TSRJ. So...yeah, Qiong Yao was being overly dramatic. They needed to quit when they were on top. Honestly, HZ popularity was at its peak in HZ2.

Also the three-year gap between HZ2 and 3 means that it's almost impossible to get the old cast back. With HZ1 and 2 making such a strong impression, no matter how good the new cast are, they will never live up to the audience's expectation. The old cast had created an image that will never change about who the characters really are. Any other interpretation would upset the audience's perfect view of the characters. Honestly, in making HZ3, with that storyline, with the depressing themes, with the new cast, they were begging for low-rated reviews.