Biggest gap between two levels of fighters?

[Ken Cheng]

In most wuxia novels, there will be numerous levels of fighters based on their powers and skills. In wuxia fiction, what was the biggest gap between one level of fighter and the next level down? To me, the gap between the Greats of LOCH and Mui Chiu Fung (who was the next level down until the end of the novel when Gwok Jing occupied a level above her, but below the Greats) was quite significant, but there must have been others (i.e. the gap between the Janitor Monk and Hui Juk in DGSD).

[stt76]

How about Xia Ke Xing? Shi Po Tian (at the end of the novel) vs just about anyone else in the novel. I got the feeling that anyone other than Long and Mu Dao Zhu would not have lasted five seconds against him.

[Ian Liew]

Dongfang Bubai seemed to be miles ahead of everybody else in XAJH (even Xiang Wentian, Ren Woxing, Ren Yingying and Linghu Chong combined couldn't even get close to him).

Zhang Wuji also seemed to be able to bully anybody he wanted to in HSDS - at least until Miss Yang appeared at the end.

Ding Dian in Lianchengjue was also quite a ways above everybody else in the story.

[PJ]

I assume Dugu Qiubai is also way ahead of his opponents.

[PJ]

Zhang Wuji also seemed to be able to bully anybody he wanted to in HSDS - at least until Miss Yang appeared at the end.

He only thought he might be able to defeat 2 of the Shaolin Elders, which means Wuji == 2 Shaolin Elders, whereas say Great == 5 Mei Chaofengs (a guess). Not too impressive that way.

[rabadi]

Originally posted by Ian Liew
Zhang Wuji also seemed to be able to bully anybody...

I don't think he can bully Z3F At least the majority also don't think so in this thread By the end of HSDS, was Z3F still the best fighter?

[CC]

Its probably that dang Sweeper Monk.

Aside from him, I don't think any other fighter demonstrated the ability to one-hit KO the next lower level of fighter.

Say XF vs MRF. MRF is 2 levels away from XF at least (there are people like Duan Yanqing in between) but XF needs at least several stances to KO MRF.

Shi Potian was a monster but he could not 1 hit KO Lord Long and Mu either.

DFBB couldn't take out LHC in 1 strike (although his nearly killing RWX while greviously injured was impressive).

The Greats could not one-hit-KO Qiu Qian Ren or even young Guo Jing who was still far behind them.

[yittz]

Its probably that dang Sweeper Monk.

Aside from him, I don't think any other fighter demonstrated the ability to one-hit KO the next lower level of fighter.

Say XF vs MRF. MRF is 2 levels away from XF at least (there are people like Duan Yanqing in between) but XF needs at least several stances to KO MRF.

Shi Potian was a monster but he could not 1 hit KO Lord Long and Mu either.

DFBB couldn't take out LHC in 1 strike (although his nearly killing RWX while greviously injured was impressive).

The Greats could not one-hit-KO Qiu Qian Ren or even young Guo Jing who was still far behind them.

What about great vs MCF? Assuming QQR same level and GJ was still pre 9Yin.

[ChronoReverse]

Its probably that dang Sweeper Monk.

Aside from him, I don't think any other fighter demonstrated the ability to one-hit KO the next lower level of fighter.

Say XF vs MRF. MRF is 2 levels away from XF at least (there are people like Duan Yanqing in between) but XF needs at least several stances to KO MRF.

The level below Sweeps should be Hui Juk no? The gap might not be as large then.

The Greats could not one-hit-KO Qiu Qian Ren or even young Guo Jing who was still far behind them.

I would put QQR as practically the same level as the Greats. As for young Guo Jing and the Greats, a full powered attack has a decent chance at overwhelming GJ with one blow considering the end of LOCH.

[CC]

The level below Sweeps should be Hui Juk no? The gap might not be as large then.


I would put QQR as practically the same level as the Greats. As for young Guo Jing and the Greats, a full powered attack has a decent chance at overwhelming GJ with one blow considering the end of LOCH.

Hard to tell on XZ. Theoretically he should be able to beat XF (or spank Ding QC in a few stances) but its just unimaginable.

If you compare HYS or H7G's final 300th stance full power attack and how long it took as well as how relatively well GJ handled it VS the 1 tap kill. The 1 tap looks so much more impressive.

Sweeper could blow JMZ away with 1 flick of his sleeve with an LDA. Could the Greats do that to GJ? I don't think so, or the fight wouldn't have lasted 300 stances and H7G wouldn't need to match inner energy with GJ at the last blow.

[flamer]

I think H7G had more than enough confidence to beat GJ in 100 stance (IMO 50 is more than enough). He only went for 300 to not make HYS look bad.

[CC]

If HYS or H7G busted out their best moves immediately with killing intent, I'd say 10 stances might be enough to kill GJ.

[Ren Wo Xing]

If Guo Jing knew that they were going all out and would be using killing blows, and he was using purely survival techniques, I think there's a good argument for him lasting 50-100, based primarily on how he handled QQR.

[Ren Ying Ying]

GJ was already pretty much on pure defensive mode in the 300 stance brawl, though.

[CC]

If Guo Jing knew that they were going all out and would be using killing blows, and he was using purely survival techniques, I think there's a good argument for him lasting 50-100, based primarily on how he handled QQR.

Logically (and using QQR's example) yes.

However looking at how it was described that when H7G blasted out that last full power palm, GJ had no choice but to use 100% effort to block with his own full inner power. Or when HYS used his ultimate technique, GJ didnt seem like he was doing anything except trying to survive too. I'd say he was probably in survival mode (he knew he only had to last 300 stances and he never dreamt of winning the fight anyway).

Back to the original topic. This just shows how bloody hard it is to one-hit-kill a lower level opponent unless the gap was really huge (say HIS Yang Guo vs Pre-Bi Xie Lin Pinzhi).

[yittz]

Why is GJ as a comparison? Can't we use MCF. Use beginning of LOCH instead of end of LOCH.

The thing was sweeper's tap is it's only one stance. You can't have half stances so it limits our assessment.

[CC]

Why is GJ as a comparison? Can't we use MCF. Use beginning of LOCH instead of end of LOCH.

The thing was sweeper's tap is it's only one stance. You can't have half stances so it limits our assessment.

Not sure if MCF is really the best after the Greats. Remember that 10++ years before GJ got hold of the 9 Yin, there is ZBT sitting in Peach Blossom Island.

[Ken Cheng]

Not sure if MCF is really the best after the Greats. Remember that 10++ years before GJ got hold of the 9 Yin, there is ZBT sitting in Peach Blossom Island.

For all practical purposes, Chow Bak Tung *is* a Great from the time he first appears in LOCH. Although the established Greats still had a slight edge on him at the time of his first appearance, the discrepancy is not so significant that Chow could be ranked an entire level (or even a half level) lower than the others.

[ChronoReverse]

If you compare HYS or H7G's final 300th stance full power attack and how long it took as well as how relatively well GJ handled it VS the 1 tap kill. The 1 tap looks so much more impressive.

Perhaps. Keep in mind that the Greats at this point were both starting to run lower in stamina while GJ's youthfulness was holding up.

In any case, the point was that the Greats could have taken out GJ with a single blow not that the gap was necessarily larger than the Sweeps one. At the very least GJ could try to react.

Sweeper could blow JMZ away with 1 flick of his sleeve with an LDA. Could the Greats do that to GJ? I don't think so, or the fight wouldn't have lasted 300 stances and H7G wouldn't need to match inner energy with GJ at the last blow.

The fight lasted 300 stances because both of them went easy on GJ. H7G was even tiring near the 300th stance and still blew away GJ with a single blow.

(I consider LDA as just a red herring because it's becoming increasingly clear that JY just puts them in whenever he feels it would be cool)

And just to repeat, the point I was contesting was that the Greats needed 300 stances to beat GJ at the end of LOCH.

For all practical purposes, Chow Bak Tung *is* a Great from the time he first appears in LOCH. Although the established Greats still had a slight edge on him at the time of his first appearance, the discrepancy is not so significant that Chow could be ranked an entire level (or even a half level) lower than the others.

When ZBT showed up in LOCH, he was already stronger than HYS (slightly). He just didn't know it yet.

[Single Whip]

The biggest gap is in the Yueh Maiden story between Ah Qing and the next level of martial artists back then, which if I recall correctly would be the soldiers who learned a little bit of her skill.