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Thread: Wuxia Fiction: unrealistic according to the western standard?

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    Senior Member rabadi's Avatar
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    Default Wuxia Fiction: unrealistic according to the western standard?

    We are so accustomed to the wuxia fiction, either from reading wuxia novels, watching wuxia series, or posting in this SPCNet wuxia forum So, when movies like "Once Upon a Time in China" series, "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon", "Hero", etc. are made to the big screen, we find them *normal*. However, what about our comrades in the western countries? When the "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" was played, people there bound to ask, "Why do people fly around in this movie?" Of course we can say it is just similar to how those Jedi masters jump around in "Star Wars" series, rather than having to go on a lengthy explanation on qigong and lightness gongfu But anyway, why the western world think of wuxia fiction as unrealistic while they can accept people dodging bullets in "Matrix" that easily? Is it double-standard? Is it because the wuxia fiction really is unrealistic in some levels?
    Last edited by rabadi; 08-29-04 at 10:47 PM.

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Is it double-standard?
    It's because they can believe bullshit that's supposed to happen in the future, but can't believe similar bullshit that's suposed to happen in the past. Or because they can't believe Asians can be supermen
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    I think it's because while Jedi Knights and the Matrix are complete products of fantasy, there *are* real martial arts and there's nothing in real martial arts like what's portrayed in wuxia fiction. It's easier to ridicule an extreme exaggeration of reality than it is to ridicule something completely fictional.

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ken Cheng
    I think it's because while Jedi Knights and the Matrix are complete products of fantasy, there *are* real martial arts and there's nothing in real martial arts like what's portrayed in wuxia fiction. It's easier to ridicule an extreme exaggeration of reality than it is to ridicule something completely fictional.
    Yup, the western fiction is much worse. Superman, spiderman, hulk etc etc

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    first of all, most movie adaptions are either way behind in technology (70s) or way exaggerated (90s). Either way, they don't do the original work much justice. Despite this, I still enjoy wuxia movies immensely, but I definitely see them as more crude now than before.

    Now personally, I have ALWAYS been fascinated by the imaginary supernatural power, not just bound by wuxia fiction. Actually, I am a bigger fan of really super thumping power beyond wuxia bound (ability to stop time, go into another dimension, fly, generate long-distance power blasts).

    I hunger for more!!
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member Yang Guo's Avatar
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    cultural differences

    in the East, we were brought up with wuxia by JY and GL

    in the West, we have Marvel and DC


    what you grow up with, you consider as "normal" (even if it is people who have spider powers because they got bit)

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    Senior Member Sutisa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wuxia Fiction: unrealistic according to the western standard?

    Originally posted by rabadi
    We are so accustomed to the wuxia fiction, either from reading wuxia novels, watching wuxia series, or posting in this SPCNet wuxia forum So, when movies like "Once Upon a Time in China" series, "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon", "Hero", etc. are made to the big screen, we find them *normal*. However, what about our comrades in the western countries? When the "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" was played, people there bound to ask, "Why do people fly around in this movie?" Of course we can say it is just similar to how those Jedi masters jump around in "Star Wars" series, rather than having to go on a lengthy explanation on qigong and lightness gongfu But anyway, why the western world think of wuxia fiction as unrealistic while they can accept people dodging bullets in "Matrix" that easily? Is it double-standard? Is it because the wuxia fiction really is unrealistic in some levels?
    I remember watching Crouching Tiger Hidden dragon at the movies and when the scene came up for the them to fly, someone in the audience whispers "Geeze that was a big gust of wind!" I nearly died laughing in my chair, I couldn't breath cas I was also trying hard not to laugh out loud since I was at the cinemas and it wasn't a comedy movie. Sometimes I forget that others have never seen this type of martial arts before and don't know these things but we are just used to it cas this is what we were exposed to when we were younger. While I was watching the movie I found nothing special about it, actually I though it was pretty boring, but my western friends were blown away with it, especially the fighting scenes.
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    Junior Member aisa_etinu's Avatar
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    I think the constant watching of wuxia series makes stuff like that normal like everyone's saying, but I still think a lot of movies brought to the US aren't as good quality as many drama's I've seen, because they're rather unbelievable even for me. All that flying around in the water stuff in Hero was interesting, scenic and different, but even I found it a bit dragging. I disliked CTHD because I found the plot old and not very engaging.

    I actually believe that Western audiences don't have any problem at all with flying martial arts, exaggerations, etc. Just look at how many enjoy anime, which I think is way inferior to real people acting (as long as it's good acting ) All that screaming and flying and fighting in anime is very much enjoyed, a lot of which is based on wuxia-type storylines.

    But the movies that Westerners' been exposed to are just a bit too far out, I think. Trying to hard to be mysterious and exotic really backfires. If they'd tone down the special effects and concentrate more on a easier to understand, unique storyline, I think it would be must better received. I thought Hero was a much, much better movie than CTHD. Maybe that next upcoming movie, something like Shi Mian Mai Fu (10 Sided Ambush?) will be even better: tone down the CG and wires, and up the plot quality.

    I have to agree slightly though...Western audiences would rather see Westerners with superhuman abilities...they can't imagine a Chinese hero saving the US as easily as they can the other way around.

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    Senior Member rabadi's Avatar
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    The case with the wuxia fiction is *usually* about (Chinese/Asian) heroes with (Chinese/Asian) villains. It's not like any characters in CTHD or Hero trying to save the world or USA for that matter. So, when the fiction does not try to show superhuman Asians above superhuman Westerners, why do the Westerners still find it hard to accept, while on the other hand it is not too difficult for Asian people to accept Spider-man and other Marvel superheroes?

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    i think it's not double standard. wuxia fiction & western fiction are both equally unrealistic.
    it looks that way because most westerners have less exposure to that kind of wuxia and just so recently. a lot of older asian fighting movies like samurai and bruce lee flicks didn't have the flying and fighting exagerrations. so for them it's a new kind of 'unreal'. asians has been exposed to western fiction/fantasy for much longer and to a much broader audience.
    btw candide, star wars' bs happened a long time ago..

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    Senior Member rabadi's Avatar
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    Here is what I got from another forum that I frequent. The guys bellow are Westerners. They are talking about the movie "Hero."

    Quote Originally Posted by Duo,Aug 28 2004, 02:47 PM
    A little off-topic, but has anyone seen 'Hero'? From what the trailers show, it seems incredibly unrealistic. Nothing that you would be able to do in...
    Quote Originally Posted by myncknm&22,Aug 29 2004, 04:38 AM
    Yes, it's very unrealistic, but that's a cultural thing...
    I could try finding other posts, but I am too lazy Bottom line is I am just curious why wuxia fiction is unrealistic according to the western standard.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Originally posted by rabadi
    Here is what I got from another forum that I frequent. The guys bellow are Westerners. They are talking about the movie "Hero."

    Quote Originally Posted by Duo,Aug 28 2004, 02:47 PM
    A little off-topic, but has anyone seen 'Hero'? From what the trailers show, it seems incredibly unrealistic. Nothing that you would be able to do in...
    Quote Originally Posted by myncknm&22,Aug 29 2004, 04:38 AM
    Yes, it's very unrealistic, but that's a cultural thing...
    I could try finding other posts, but I am too lazy Bottom line is I am just curious why wuxia fiction is unrealistic according to the western standard.
    It's because martial arts is based on reality while superheroes, et. al,. are complete fantasy. There's no point in comparing Superman or Spider-Man to anything in the real world because no such beings exist. There are, however, real martial arts, and those martial arts are *nothing* like the more extreme martial arts feats in wuxia fiction.

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    Senior Member convoy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ken Cheng
    It's because martial arts is based on reality while superheroes, et. al,. are complete fantasy. There's no point in comparing Superman or Spider-Man to anything in the real world because no such beings exist. There are, however, real martial arts, and those martial arts are *nothing* like the more extreme martial arts feats in wuxia fiction.
    Not really. There are mutants in the real world, and those mutants are nothing like the mutants in X-Men. They are not complaining X-Men is too unrealistic, are they? If they can accept X-Men as a fantasy, why can't they accept wuxia fiction as fantasy, which wuxia really is?

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Superman is a journalist.

    Spiderman is a nerd that got bitten by a spider. Nerds do get bitten by spiders but then they end up in hospital, not ending up as a superhero flying around the city.

    The way those superheroes fight also seems very "real-life", although their kicks and punches are just a few thousand times more powerful than your average Joe.

    They don't seem like "complete fantasy" to me.
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    Senior Member Dagger Lee's Avatar
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    Many westerners would say that it's impossible to fly or use 18 dragon palms but they say nothing about Superman or The Matrix. I would say it's based on what they grew up with. Many of us, including myself, grew up watching or reading wuxia while westerners grew up watching Marvel cartoons. I mean even my cousins, who are Asian but born in America, don't accept wuxia but accept Comic book heroes easily.

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Well, however, those who can accept wuxia, can accept the comic book heroes as well. Talk about being openminded
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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