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Thread: DGSD Characters: overrated or underrated?

  1. #1
    Senior Member rabadi's Avatar
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    Default Was XZ overrated or underrated?

    Most of the time when we talk about XZ, we probably say, oh yes this guy had incredible amount of internal energy, probably worth 180 years or more, but too bad he did not have enough experience, did not have fighting mentality, etc.

    What do you think of him? Was he overrated, or underrated?

  2. #2
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    Mostly underrated. Because XZ at the end of DGSD was much better than the time he fought JMZ.
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    Senior Member Xiao Feng's Avatar
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    Originally posted by superboy
    Mostly underrated. Because XZ at the end of DGSD was much better than the time he fought JMZ.
    Underated, he had access to the best of XYP's arts and seems to have some talent. His only weakness would be his kindheartedness and reluctance to hurt others (lacking ruthlessness when fighting, something XF had in abundance )

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    Senior Member - L1n -'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by Xiao Feng
    Underated, he had access to the best of XYP's arts and seems to have some talent. His only weakness would be his kindheartedness and reluctance to hurt others (lacking ruthlessness when fighting, something XF had in abundance )

    he did not have access to bei ming and linbo which is the top of the leagues in xiao yao pai.

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    Junior Member Shulato's Avatar
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    Originally posted by - L1n -
    he did not have access to bei ming and linbo which is the top of the leagues in xiao yao pai.
    Without Ling Bo Wei Bu, Xu Zhu was already able to slightly outpace Duan Yu when they're running to grab the Liao Emperor near the end of the story.

    And although he didn't have Bei Ming Shen Gong, he did have Bei Ming Zhen Qi, which protected him most of the time during his fights against Jiu MoZhi and Ding Chun Qiu.

    Yeah, in my opinion he's rather underrated.

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    Senior Member ToOn99's Avatar
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    underrated
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Hui Juk was kind of a successor (or forerunner, if you're going by story continuity rather than publication date) to Cheung Mo Gei: both were talented students of the martial arts who didn't necessarily have great fighting instincts, but whom fate saw fit to dump an incredible amount of inner power into their laps and accidentally become the leaders of great sects. Both of them even managed to marry a foreign princess.

  8. #8
    Senior Member ToOn99's Avatar
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    but XZ wasn't talented at all, he was just lucky to get huge transfer from Xiao Yao Pai elders.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ToOn99
    but XZ wasn't talented at all, he was just lucky to get huge transfer from Xiao Yao Pai elders.
    Still, it was up to Hui Juk to make something of that. He wasn't a forerunner of Gok Yeun the Monk (from HSDS). Hui Juk started out kind of like Gok Yeun, but eventually, he learned to become quite a martial artist . . . even helping Kiu Fung to simplify and digest the Hong Lung 28 Palms into a more efficient Hong Lung 18 Palms in the third edition of DGSD.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ken Cheng
    Still, it was up to Hui Juk to make something of that. He wasn't a forerunner of Gok Yeun the Monk (from HSDS). Hui Juk started out kind of like Gok Yeun, but eventually, he learned to become quite a martial artist . . . even helping Kiu Fung to simplify and digest the Hong Lung 28 Palms into a more efficient Hong Lung 18 Palms in the third edition of DGSD.
    Just a few comments: Jueyuan was an extremely intelligent person, and he could have been a superior fighter if he pursued the warrior ways. But he was a scholar (a very nerdy one even) so he only trained Nine Yang for health purposes.

    Xuzhu however lived in the Shaolin temple since his birth, yet at the age of 24 he had only learned two Shaolin forms: Luohanquan Arhat Boxing and Weituozhang Buddhist Guardian Palm... Please note that he was NOT proficient in Weituozhang, and he could not really apply Luohanquan techniques in a actual combat.

    It is obvious that Xuzhu was incredibly dumb when it comes to learning martial arts. Xuzhu is just a good example of how being pumped with hundreds years of internal power and a legacy of divine martial arts skills, every nitwit can become a good fighter.
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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Shulato
    And although he didn't have Bei Ming Shen Gong, he did have Bei Ming Zhen Qi, which protected him most of the time during his fights against Jiu MoZhi and Ding Chun Qiu.
    What is the difference between Bei Ming Shen Gong and Bei Ming Zhen Qi? Why is XZ able to absorb energy from LQS and TSTL? Initially, I thought it is because of his Bei Ming Zhen Qi and assume that Bei Ming Zhen Qi has the same function as Bei Ming Shen Gong. But from your post, it seems to be not the case.

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    I disagree, Laviathan. I believe that it wasn't until after the few days of hot hot s** that TSTL set up for Xu Zhu that he unlocked his martial arts talent See, before that he was a complete dumbarse, couldn't even learn the 2 basic Shaolin techniques properly. But right after he lost his virginity, he suddenly managed to learn the best palm and claw techniques, and even impressed TSTL. Then he went on to learn all XY kungfu on his own, and even managed to optimise the Dragon Subduing Palms

    I say being abstinence was what holding this great martial art talent back temporarily
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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Originally posted by kidd
    What is the difference between Bei Ming Shen Gong and Bei Ming Zhen Qi?
    Former is the training method/philosophy + the energy, the later is just the actual energy. Xu Zhu didn't know how to practice BMSG but he had plenty of it.

    Why is XZ able to absorb energy from LQS and TSTL? Initially, I thought it is because of his Bei Ming Zhen Qi and assume that Bei Ming Zhen Qi has the same function as Bei Ming Shen Gong. But from your post, it seems to be not the case.
    Because LQS and TSTL were using his body as the inner energy battleground. Eventually, they were exhausted so Xu Zhu had these 3 incredible inner energy flows in his body. They luckily merged, due to the fact that they all had the same origin (being Taoist-Xiao Yao's after all). Xu Zhu didn't suck anything from them.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

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  14. #14
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Originally posted by kidd
    What is the difference between Bei Ming Shen Gong and Bei Ming Zhen Qi? Why is XZ able to absorb energy from LQS and TSTL? Initially, I thought it is because of his Bei Ming Zhen Qi and assume that Bei Ming Zhen Qi has the same function as Bei Ming Shen Gong. But from your post, it seems to be not the case.

    Freak accident. The 3 of them were drowning and freezing and immobilised while pushing inner energy at each other with Xu Zhu in the middle. Bei Ming Zhen Qi is wonderful stuff....


    Think of 2 lumps of clay pushed against one lump in the center. Since they are all clay, it just becomes one bigger lump.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Du Gu seeking a win's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Laviathan
    Just a few comments: Jueyuan was an extremely intelligent person, and he could have been a superior fighter if he pursued the warrior ways. But he was a scholar (a very nerdy one even) so he only trained Nine Yang for health purposes.


    I don't think JY is intelligent.
    1. In HSDS (1st edition) , at the time before he died, he recited 9Yang before the three listeners, he recited an all mixed up version of 9Yang, because 9Yang was written between the lines of a Buddhist Sutra. So he mixed them up, reading the Sutra lines (in Sanskrit? - this confused Guo Xiang. the only one of the three who isn't familiar with Buddhism) and then the lines between them (9Yang) etc.

    2. He apparently didn't make a distinction between them. That's why he didn't find out the true motives of the Sutra thieves. He thought they wanted the Sutra itself.

    3. I wouldn't say: He trained 9 Yang. I would say: He followed the instructions in the book (the WHOLE book!), like an asshead (monks in wuxia stories are pejoratively called that way - for those who are noobs here) following some prayer instructions.


    [i] Xuzhu however lived in the Shaolin temple since his birth, yet at the age of 24 he had only learned two Shaolin forms: Luohanquan Arhat Boxing and Weituozhang Buddhist Guardian Palm... Please note that he was NOT proficient in Weituozhang, and he could not really apply Luohanquan techniques in a actual combat.It is obvious that Xuzhu was incredibly dumb when it comes to learning martial arts. [/B]


    I believe XZ (like DY) at first had no interest whatsoever in martial arts. Like DY, he is a pacifist and doesn't like the idea of fighting. Probably, like Candide hints, some bed-wrestling grips were helpful in unlocking the savage beast deep within. It was karma, didn't his father was seduced too


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    Senior Member Dirt's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Laviathan
    It is obvious that Xuzhu was incredibly dumb when it comes to learning martial arts. Xuzhu is just a good example of how being pumped with hundreds years of internal power and a legacy of divine martial arts skills, every nitwit can become a good fighter.
    Amen. This goes back to my comment where if you learn half of 9Ying, you'll be a great fighter. If you learn half of HL18Z, you're only average.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Dirt's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Candide
    Then he went on to learn all XY kungfu on his own, and even managed to optimise the Dragon Subduing Palms
    I think we should all wait for the 3rd edition of TLBB to come out before assumeing that he was the one who optimized the Dragon Palms.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Xiao Feng's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Dirt
    Amen. This goes back to my comment where if you learn half of 9Ying, you'll be a great fighter. If you learn half of HL18Z, you're only average.
    There isn't even a comparison, 9 Yin is so much more while XL18Z is just a palm technique albeit the best one. If you want to compare, compare any random technique in the second book of 9 Yin and XL18Z kicks all their a$$es.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Xiao Feng's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Dirt
    I think we should all wait for the 3rd edition of TLBB to come out before assumeing that he was the one who optimized the Dragon Palms.
    Even so, being able to digest all those advance XYP techniques must account for something, no?

  20. #20
    Senior Member Vicious's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Laviathan
    Just a few comments: Jueyuan was an extremely intelligent person, and he could have been a superior fighter if he pursued the warrior ways. But he was a scholar (a very nerdy one even) so he only trained Nine Yang for health purposes.

    Xuzhu however lived in the Shaolin temple since his birth, yet at the age of 24 he had only learned two Shaolin forms: Luohanquan Arhat Boxing and Weituozhang Buddhist Guardian Palm... Please note that he was NOT proficient in Weituozhang, and he could not really apply Luohanquan techniques in a actual combat.

    It is obvious that Xuzhu was incredibly dumb when it comes to learning martial arts. Xuzhu is just a good example of how being pumped with hundreds years of internal power and a legacy of divine martial arts skills, every nitwit can become a good fighter.
    It didn't seem to me that Xu Zhu was all that interested in martial arts though. I dont think you should call him incredibly dumb when he was blantantly disinterested, like DY was disinterested. it's impossible to tell though, no one ever starts out with that much power.
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