Dali Emperor Deun Chi Hing's title of address

[Ken Cheng]

Emperor Deun Chi Hing was the sovereign ruler of the Dali Kingdom. According to Chinese imperial customs, then, he should have been addressed as "wong seung" (not the name of the 9 Yum Jen Ging's creator, but the title of address for the national sovereign). All of the emperor's followers, however, referred to Deun Chi Hing as "wong yeh", which translates not into "emperor", but "prince". Why was Deun Chi Hing never referred to by the correct title?

[Tazzy1972]

think the 'yeh' is used cos he is rather old s in yeh yeh (grandfather)

[CFT]

Wasn't his brother Duen Jing Ming the emperor, or did he give up his throne in favour of Duen Chi Hing?

[Ken Cheng]

Wasn't his brother Duen Jing Ming the emperor, or did he give up his throne in favour of Duen Chi Hing?

You're thinking of the wrong person (Prince Deun Jing Tsun, who was indeed a "wong yeh" prince).

I'm talking about Deun Chi Hing, who was known by the title of South Emperor and fought at the First Mt. Hua Sword Tournament against Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung, East Heretic Wong Yerk See, West Poison Au Yeung Fung, and North Beggar Hung 7 Gung. Later, he became the Buddhist monk known as 1 Deng, and met Gwok Jing and Wong Yung during LEGEND OF THE CONDOR HEROES and Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl during RETURN OF THE CONDOR HEROES.

[Candide]

I'm not familiar with Cantonese pinyin, but the wong in "wong yeh" is the same as the wong in "wong seung" if you go by the book. They should both be "Huang" in Mandarin pinyin. They were addressing South Emperor with the correct title.

[CFT]

You're thinking of the wrong person (Prince Deun Jing Tsun, who was indeed a "wong yeh" prince).

Oops!!! You're right Ken, how stupid of me.

I think you're right, the correct form of address from his retainers should be 'wong seung' not 'wong yea', even if it is the same 'wong' (Candide's comment). Possibly lax dialogue in the script. Would need to go back to the original novel.

I can see how Gwok Jing could call him Duen wong yea since he is not a Dali subject.

[Dennis Chen]

I'm not familiar with Cantonese pinyin, but the wong in "wong yeh" is the same as the wong in "wong seung" if you go by the book. They should both be "Huang" in Mandarin pinyin. They were addressing South Emperor with the correct title.

It's not the 'wong' that's in question, but the 'yeh' versus the 'seung'.

[Dennis Chen]

Emperor Deun Chi Hing was the sovereign ruler of the Dali Kingdom. According to Chinese imperial customs, then, he should have been addressed as "wong seung" (not the name of the 9 Yum Jen Ging's creator, but the title of address for the national sovereign). All of the emperor's followers, however, referred to Deun Chi Hing as "wong yeh", which translates not into "emperor", but "prince". Why was Deun Chi Hing never referred to by the correct title?

I'm guessing it's because Duan Zhixing was no longer the Emperor. Therefore, they called him 'yeh'.

[Laviathan]

Emperor Deun Chi Hing was the sovereign ruler of the Dali Kingdom. According to Chinese imperial customs, then, he should have been addressed as "wong seung" (not the name of the 9 Yum Jen Ging's creator, but the title of address for the national sovereign). All of the emperor's followers, however, referred to Deun Chi Hing as "wong yeh", which translates not into "emperor", but "prince". Why was Deun Chi Hing never referred to by the correct title?

Like Candide said, misunderstanding due to Cantonese pronunciation.

The title for Kinglet/Prince/Your Highness is Wangye.

The title for Emperor/Imperial Majesty is Huangshang, but in Yideng's case, he already abdicated the throne, so he is referred to as Huangye. (Dennis Chen was right)

Both Wangye and Huangye are pronounced Wong yeh in Cantonese, but the first characters are not the same and have different meanings (Prince/Kinglet versus Emperor).

[Dennis Chen]

Wasn't Duan Zhixing the last Emperor of the Dali Kingdom?

[Ken Cheng]

Like Candide said, misunderstanding due to Cantonese pronunciation.

The title for Kinglet/Prince/Your Highness is Wangye.

The title for Emperor/Imperial Majesty is Huangshang, but in Yideng's case, he already abdicated the throne, so he is referred to as Huangye. (Dennis Chen was right)

Both Wangye and Huangye are pronounced Wong yeh in Cantonese, but the first characters are not the same and have different meanings (Prince/Kinglet versus Emperor).

Interesting. I guess the scriptwriters for the adaptations coughed up again because Emperor Deun's followers referred to him as "wong yeh" even when he was still the emperor (before he had abdicated). At that point, he should still have been "wong seung".

[Tazzy1972]

yeh sounds more cool than shang

[rabadi]

What is Huangdi in Qin Shi Huangdi then? Is it his own name?

[Tazzy1972]

another term to be used with Huang to address a king

[TaiHan]

What is Huangdi in Qin Shi Huangdi then? Is it his own name?

I'm not very sure since I don't study much about history, but I though it was only Qin Shi Huang. Also I think it is only his title, can't remember his name though. The Huang actually mean yellow or golden, I guess that is why all those emperor wear those yellow or golden uniform. While the shang mean statue or something, It seem to have some relation with the statue of those goddess, god, etc, which people bow to and pray to. except this person is alive one.

[Laviathan]

I'm not very sure since I don't study much about history, but I though it was only Qin Shi Huang. Also I think it is only his title, can't remember his name though. The Huang actually mean yellow or golden, I guess that is why all those emperor wear those yellow or golden uniform. While the shang mean statue or something, It seem to have some relation with the statue of those goddess, god, etc, which people bow to and pray to. except this person is alive one.

Huh?

The First Emperor of China was born Ying Zheng, King of the State of Qin. After he conquered the other six kingdoms, he felt he needed a new title. Ying Zheng took the title Qin Shi Huangdi...

Qin: the state of Qin, a kingdom which was situated in present-day Sh'anxi province in Western China, first imperial dynasty of China

Shi: beginning, first

Huang: August (NOT yellow)

Di: Emperor

The title therefore means literally: First August Emperor of Qin.

[TaiHan]

sorry, I was kind of guessing around but I was actually talking about HuangShang not Qin Shi Huang Di. I already know that it mean the first emperor.

I wonder is August an important month or something?

[Laviathan]

I wonder is August an important month or something?

The month of August was named in honour of the first Roman Emperor Octavian, who held as title "Imperator Augustus" (August Emperor). August here means "majestic" or "venerable".

[PJ]

The month of August was named in honour of the first Roman Emperor Octavian, who held as title "Imperator Augustus" (August Emperor). August here means "majestic" or "venerable".

The significance of August in Ying Zheng's title and in Augustus' name is pure coincidence, right?

[Laviathan]

Huang does not literary translate as August, but it has more or less the same meaning.

In Chinese mythology, there were the legendary rulers of San Huang Wu Di (The three High Lords and the Five Emperors). Ying Zheng combined the titles of Huang and Di to form Huangdi (August Emperor).