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Thread: The Conqueror's Story 《楚漢驕雄》

  1. #721
    Senior Member charbydis's Avatar
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    I am confused, Kidd. By the way I analyzed the lyrics, it was pretty even between both men.

    雄才絕世天生有幾,狂情傲態萬年稀。
    力拔山獨有吞山川豪氣,天亦疑忌。

    This is Hong Yu with his arrogance and talent, done a play of words from his ending poem.

    凌雲大志衝天飛,良才善製造時機。

    This is about Lau Bong (or actually Lui Chi) and the talented men they recruited. Hong Yu, as far as I know, didn't use any of his men effectively to turn the tables. He was egotistic and wanted a one-man show.

    群雄逢變天楚漢驕雄鬥,成敗看捕捉先機。
    用兩手天將塌下都撐起,用鬥心一生霸業沒法比。

    This is talking about both Hong Yu and Lau Bong because both created a "ba yip" and Lau Bong's Han dynasty was the peerless one (as said in the fourth bit).

    誰才能絕世功高可霸天,天命難欺。

    First bit Lau Bong on how his honours will be glorified to great extents, second bit Hong Yu about how he was not destined to win.

    無言獨對烏江水,成王敗寇悟前非。

    Hong Yu here abotu his suicide and fleeing from Hon Sun's troops.

    未問人與天因我只問責,高風歌讚千世紀行。

    Lau Bong about him in the first ep in how people misunderstand him and how guilty he feels, and then he would be remembered forever.

    人逢絕處總得轉機,豪傑亦有被人欺。
    人如逢困境不短英雄氣,榮辱貴賤擔得起。

    That is definately Lau Bong. He went through the up and downs, in riches and in rags, was praised and insulted, and made a turning point when he was pushed to his limits (when Hong made him reside in the Shu Kingdom). Hong Yu never went into rags (賤).

    用兩手將天塌下都撐起,用愛心一生愛人如愛己。
    常懷人共說分擔喜與悲,天地無欺,

    Both men here. Hong Yu loved Yu Gei and his men, whilst Lau Bong loved the people. Teh second bit is Lau Bong, on how he genuinely reminiscences abotu Hong yu on sharing their happiness and woes.

    無言獨對烏江水,成王敗寇悟前非。

    Hong Yu again. (However, I remember Lau Bong was talking to the Wu Gong in ep1 - thid is pretty ambigious )

    未問人與天因我只問責,千秋功過平常事。

    Lau Bong blaming himself again, and how he didn't care anymore about glory (last conversation with his son showed how he thought glory was just passing clouds).

    力拔山勇哉不過一齣戲,無限壯烈千古悲。

    Hong Yu's tragic end.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

    I agree with Kidd, this is a very poetic and meaningful song. that's why I like it so much.

    BTW, what do you think of the english title, "The Conqueror's Story"? I remember years back, I was talking to ACL and thought it was referring to the Western Conqueror Hong Yu's story. But most people think it is about the ultimate conqueror, Lau Bong. What do you think it refers to?
    "Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self."
    Cyril Connolly

  2. #722
    Member angel_luvz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd
    Yes, I have seen it, a long time ago. Seen it even before the series itself came out in HK. I don't have the clip with me now. It's attached to the TVB aniversary VCD. I've returned the VCD to the rental shop already.

    I find your question strange. Why do u asked me "Have you seen it yet?". If I have not seen it, why would I mention it's contents. And why the 'yet' like it's something really new? Have u mistaken it for this year's presentation clip?
    sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought you'd read about the presentation clip's content in this thread without seeing it on tv. I intended to ask if you know where I can download it but n/m now

  3. #723
    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charbydis
    I am confused, Kidd. By the way I analyzed the lyrics, it was pretty even between both men.
    My intepretation of the lyrics is different than your. To me the first part talk about Hong Yu from his rise to his fall.

    Quote Originally Posted by charbydis
    雄才絕世天生有幾,狂情傲態萬年稀。
    力拔山獨有吞山川豪氣,天亦疑忌。

    This is Hong Yu with his arrogance and talent, done a play of words from his ending poem.
    Yes, this is all talk about Hong Yu. This talk a person with this kind of talent, bearing and strength scarce even within a 10,000 years of period. Even the heaven fear him a little.

    Quote Originally Posted by charbydis
    凌雲大志衝天飛,良才善製造時機。

    This is about Lau Bong (or actually Lui Chi) and the talented men they recruited. Hong Yu, as far as I know, didn't use any of his men effectively to turn the tables. He was egotistic and wanted a one-man show.
    To me this part talk about Hong Yu big ambition that reach up to the sky. Hong Yu might be arrogant and aggresive, but he was a talented man who creates opportunity. Lau Bong is '时势造英雄' while Hong Yu is '英雄造时势'. This paragraph talk about the ambitious and talented Hong Yu create opportunities for himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by charbydis
    群雄逢變天楚漢驕雄鬥,成敗看捕捉先機。
    用兩手天將塌下都撐起,用鬥心一生霸業沒法比。

    This is talking about both Hong Yu and Lau Bong because both created a "ba yip" and Lau Bong's Han dynasty was the peerless one (as said in the fourth bit).
    Yes, this talks about the Hong Yu and Lau Bong war. But the second line against denotes strength. When I see this line '用兩手天將塌下都撐起,用鬥心一生霸業沒法比' the image that comes to my mind is the strong Hong Yu supporting the sky. I also associate '霸業' more to Hong Yu. You might be right that it talks more about the peerless Han Dynasty.

    Quote Originally Posted by charbydis
    誰才能絕世功高可霸天,天命難欺。

    First bit Lau Bong on how his honours will be glorified to great extents, second bit Hong Yu about how he was not destined to win.
    To me, the whole part is just talking about Hong Yu not destine to rule. This me, the line sound like this 'Who can rule the world? Nope, not Hong Yu.'

    Quote Originally Posted by charbydis
    無言獨對烏江水,成王敗寇悟前非。

    Hong Yu here abotu his suicide and fleeing from Hon Sun's troops.
    Yes. This is totally about Hong Yu. It's like Hong Yu facing the 乌江水 reflecting on what he did wrong, what mistake me made.

    Quote Originally Posted by charbydis
    ,未問人與天因我只問責,高風歌讚千世紀行。

    Lau Bong about him in the first ep in how people misunderstand him and how guilty he feels, and then he would be remembered forever.
    Haha, my mistake. The version I studied in the DVD, Adam Cheng has added this line in the last part '力拔山勇哉不過一齣戲,無限壯烈千古悲'. Adam Cheng only sang 1/2 of the song. So, I thought the concert part just consisted of the whole part one. When I found the lyrics in full, I only read the 2nd part because I've already studied part 1 repeatedly. So, only now I realised Adam has move the last line to the 1st half of the song.

    So, my analysis all gone.
    The version Adam Cheng sang his concert really sounds like all about Hong Yu. The whole first part is so '霸气'.

    The 2nd part no need to discuss liao. I can see it's all both Lau Bong and Hong Yu.

    Quote Originally Posted by charbydis
    I agree with Kidd, this is a very poetic and meaningful song. that's why I like it so much.
    And can get people real confused too. See the big difference in our interpretation of the lyrics.
    But I really like the lyrics too. Very well written.

    Quote Originally Posted by charbydis
    BTW, what do you think of the english title, "The Conqueror's Story"? I remember years back, I was talking to ACL and thought it was referring to the Western Conqueror Hong Yu's story. But most people think it is about the ultimate conqueror, Lau Bong. What do you think it refers to?
    I think it's about both. The title is as ambiguous as the lyrics. Can have many interpretations.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  4. #724
    Senior Member adamcheng22447's Avatar
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    hehe kidd, you should've asked me for the full version a long time ago
    ♥ Adam

  5. #725
    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamcheng22447
    hehe kidd, you should've asked me for the full version a long time ago
    Why should I?
    I already have the full song with me since last year. The lyrics I can get whenever I want. It's all over the net. I just didn't study the lyrics as thoroughly until 2 days ago.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  6. #726
    Senior Member adamcheng22447's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd
    Why should I?
    I already have the full song with me since last year. The lyrics I can get whenever I want. It's all over the net. I just didn't study the lyrics as thoroughly until 2 days ago.
    Because......you said that you played Adam's concert DVD repeatedly to study the lyric but he only sang 1/2 of the song in his concerts. I didn't know you had the full song before you watched it
    Last edited by adamcheng22447; 04-11-06 at 10:01 PM.
    ♥ Adam

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    hey. i dun understand why lau bong suddenly wanna kill hong yu. as he earlier said that they were brothers and will keep good relationship between the border countries.

  8. #728
    TommyH
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    Quote Originally Posted by kacheek
    hey. i dun understand why lau bong suddenly wanna kill hong yu. as he earlier said that they were brothers and will keep good relationship between the border countries.
    it isn't he who wants to kill hong yu. it is his wife and his servants and his friends who don't follow his command and wants to kill hong yu. lau bong later learns why...

  9. #729
    Senior Member charbydis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kacheek
    hey. i dun understand why lau bong suddenly wanna kill hong yu. as he earlier said that they were brothers and will keep good relationship between the border countries.
    Because he eventually matures and sees that he is just a puppet used by his wife. Even if he disagrees, they will still go ahead without him anyway and isolate him, so risking being cursed fro thousands of years later, he chose to go after Hong Yu, then plan for his revenge secretly while his enemies thought he was weak and puppet-like. So Lau Bong became a sneaky guy, but nevertheless, a kind-hearted one. It is so sad!
    "Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self."
    Cyril Connolly

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    i've missed the part where hon shun wanna rebel. i wonder how lau bong trapped him and asked his wife to execute him... can anyone pls tell me...?

  11. #731
    Senior Member charbydis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kacheek
    i've missed the part where hon shun wanna rebel. i wonder how lau bong trapped him and asked his wife to execute him... can anyone pls tell me...?
    Lau Bong demoted Hon Shun and Hon Shun was pissed, and contacted his old subordinates who he felt were his friends, and demanded that they help him rasie an army to rebel Lau Bong. Lau Bong got wind of this.

    Lau Bong feigned stupidity and spread rumours that he was trapped in a battle and Siu Hor was sent by Lui Chi to get Hon Shun to help. Hon Shun fell for it and went all arrogant to go to the palce to see Lui Chi, not realisiing it was a trap because he trusted Siu Hor as he was the first one who chased after him and acknowledged his talents.

    So Hon Shun went into the palace and was shocked to see Lau Bong waiting for him, and his "friends" with Lau Bong. See, these friends were the ones who followed Lau Bong from the start (his hometown friends) so naturally, they were loyal to Lau Bong, but only feigned disloyalty to get close to Hon Shun. Now they have the letters Hon Shun wrote and have evidence to charge him of treason.

    Lau Bong tells him that this is his revenge for making him order the death of his good brother, Hong Yu. Back then, he was forced to follow Hon Shun's wish to kill Hong Yu because Hon Shun was the popularity and power. But today, he Lau Bong has the upper hand and Hon Shun must follow his wishes, and die.

    Hon Shun laughed as he was being led away that it was Siu Hor who lead him to his success, and Siu Hor who lead him to his downfall.

    Lau Bong couldn't kill Hon Shun usng his own name because it would just ruin his notability for kindness and people coudl use it to spark a rebellion and the peopel would be at war again. So he made a bargain with his wife, Lui Chi would order the death of Hon Shun, while he has to guarantee to make her son the Crown Prince (Bok Gei had just fallen pregnant so Lui Chi feels insecure), to which he agrees.
    "Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self."
    Cyril Connolly

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    KWONG WA IS DAMN GOOD CAN. omg, he is my fav guy for all emperor roles cause he is like CHARISMA OVERFLOW! srsly. adam cheng is good too. maggie cheung is good, since she makes me feel like killing her, that *****. devoted to her husband my *** man, she just wants the entire kingdom to herself. goodness. but no what, in the end it was a concubine's son who succeeded the throne after her own son died, the poor guy prob got retribution on his mother's behalf poor boy.


    KWONG WA. srsly(:


    oh and RAM TSUENG is so cute. hahah. and WAYNE LAI is damn good too, especially the part where he teared after knowing that xiao he betrayed him. first sign of humanity, one might call it.


    and xiao he's rlly good in the series too, he seldom acts roles like this(:

  13. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyH View Post
    haha! but if you did understand it then it'd make a really good watch.
    this is like, one of the best tvb series ever. kwong wa is spectacular. goodness, i just finished watching it yesterday ( in chinese) and it's like, damn good and er, damn sad.

  14. #734
    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwonkedout View Post
    maggie cheung is good, since she makes me feel like killing her, that *****. devoted to her husband my *** man, she just wants the entire kingdom to herself. goodness. but no what, in the end it was a concubine's son who succeeded the throne after her own son died, the poor guy prob got retribution on his mother's behalf poor boy.
    If the history record was to be believed, she was even more hateful in real life.

    She did get the entire kingdom to herself. The concubine's son only succeeded the throne after she died. After her own son died, she put 2 more young kids to the throne as puppet emporers. Only after she died, the ministers who were loyal to the Lau family dared to help the concubine's son to the throne. Chan Ping (played by Gilbert Lam in the series) was one of the ministers who played a big role in returning the kingdom to the Lau family.

    If the historical record was to be believed again, she pathly caused her son's death. After the inhuman treatment she put upon Lady Chik (played by Cerina Da Graca), he son became so sick of her heartlessness that he gave up on himself. He just indulged in wine and entertainment until he died of a young age.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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