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Thread: Yi Jin Jing: DGSD v.s SPW

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Default Yi Jin Jing: DGSD v.s SPW


    Everyone I know here seems to agree that YJJ in DGSD is far superior to YJJ in SPW. It could be due to one (or all) of the following:

    1: Deterioration Theory
    2: You Tan Zhi's crazy inner power boost (from newbie to Xiao Feng's level in a few years time)
    3: YJJ in SPW is a different version to the one in DGSD, could have been rewritten/reinvented by some other monk, whereas YJJ in DGSD was written by Damo himself.
    4: YJJ in DGSD was regarded by Murong Bo as one of the two best martial arts in the world (the other was 6MSJ of the Duan royal family).

    Let's discuss these points:

    1: Deterioration Theory

    While generally, on average, martial arts (or fighters) in later generations are worse than previous generations, there are always plenty of exceptions. If you treat this theory as absolute, then there will be plenty of counter-examples, such as Hong Qi Gong's Dragon Palms being better than Xiao Feng's Dragon Palms (talking about the techniques, not the fighters) and GJ's DP being better than HQG's. Or Xuan Ming elders would kick plenty of butts (those who weren't attached to Greats) if they were in LOCH and ROCH. Or DFBB vs Greats. I think it's not possible to conclude that DGSD's YJJ is superior to SPW's YJJ because of this theory. It's afterall just a theory.

    2: YTZ's inner power boost

    YJJ alone would never give him that result. YTZ would've had to practice it for another 200 years, given his ability, to reach the level that he did in DGSD. Luckily for him, he was using it out of depression to save his own life from the icy poison of the Icy Silkworm. This combination created a magical boost which saw him reach Xiao Feng's level of inner power within a few years. Note: there was a very similar boost to ZWJ in HSDS. YJJ therefore could only take half the credit for YTZ's progress.

    Other than YTZ, it was said that only one crazy monk in Shaolin happened to learn YJJ "the right way", i.e he didn't really want to master it, he was just curious, and he mastered YJJ. I'd say that the Sweeper Monk mastered it too, so that makes it 3 people who could. Even smart ones like Jiu Mo Zhi couldn't learn it. Other Shaolin monks in various generations tried it but couldn't get any result, and they thought that it was worthless and overhyped (hence they didn't care that much after Ah Zhu stole the original Sanskrit copy). In my opinion, that is one poorly written/developed martial art. Imagine a car that can only run faster than 40kph on a specific road (among 1 million of them) with a specific kind of driver in a specific weather condition... That would be one poorly designed and engineered designed product.

    The YJJ in SPW, on the other hand, was mastered by Feng Zhang, and also by the Abbot before him. Feng Zhang was probably the 2nd best fighter in SPW, after DFBB. His YJJ inner power was so powerful that Ren Wo Xing's XXDF couldn't suck even just a little bit of inner energy off him. That YJJ, in a very short space of time, could help LHC cure his inner power injury caused by zillions of powerful different inner energy streams inside his body. Efficiency-wise, that would be a clear win for YJJ of SPW.

    If A mastered DGSD's YJJ thoroughly and B mastered SPW's YJJ thoroughly, it'd be hard to say who would be the better fighter, and we would have to rely on weak theories like the Deterioration Theory to guess the winner. However, since DGSD's YJJ was so hard to master, it was pretty much useless compared to SPW's YJJ. If I were a practitioner, I know what I would pick.

    3: YJJ in SPW != YJJ in DGSD

    Due to the above, I believe this is true. YJJ in SPW must have been rewritten or reinterpreted by some Shaolin monk in the Ming dynasty (why, because the monks in HSDS didn't know it). One would then argue that because DGSD's YJJ was written by Damo, it must be better than SPW's YJJ written by some unknown monk. I believe that it would be an invalid argument. Not everything Damo touched turned to gold I'm not saying that DGSD's YJJ was shit, but it's not automatically superior to SPW's YJJ or any other inner power art like 9 Yin, 9 Yang etc. just because it was written by Damo. Moreover, we have the "it also depends on the practitioner" argument as well, which is a very strong one.

    4: YJJ in DGSD: one of the two best martial arts in the world ?

    Was it really ? Or was it just Murong Bo's opinion ? I believe it's the latter. Murong Bo's opinions of top level martial arts were quite skewed, IMO. He considered 6MSJ as the best, but without an incredible inner power (like Duan Yu had), it wouldn't be that useful. If Duan Yu had the same inner power as Xiao Feng (in DGSD his was higher than XF's) would his 6MSJ be any better than XF's 28 Dragon Palms ? Or Xu Zhu's Tian Shan 6 Yang Palms ? I doubt it. Sure XF thought in that Shaolin battle that if he were in MRF's position, he wouldn't know how to block Duan Yu's sword energy but I think it was mostly because Duan Yu had way more inner energy than Xiao Feng. Xu Zhu would have no problem with that.

    Murong Bo also had a completely wrong idea about Shaolin 72 arts, which resulted in his serious internal injuries. Additionally, he underrated the Dog Beating Stick technique and had a completely wrong method of teaching his son. Murong Fu learnt so many techniques that he became a case of Jack of all traces, Master of none, at least when compared to other great fighters in DGSD. If MRF concentrated on a few, with his ability, he could've been a lot better than that.

    What I'm trying to say with the above paragraphs is that Murong Bo's opinion of YJJ should not be taken as the truth. Other than him, nobody valued YJJ that highly in SOD anyway.

    YJJ in SPW on the other hand was a lot more well-known and respected. It was more "proven" than its DGSD brother.

    Conclusion: In terms of absolute power, it is impossible to conclude which YJJ version is better. However the SPW vesion is a better martial art due to having much better efficiency and being more useful.

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    in XAJH during the chapter when LHC is brought to Shaolin by RYY, the abbot prior to offering to teach LHC Yi Jin Jing explained that its origins were from Damo himself written on his robe that he left behind in the cave where he meditated for 9 years. His disciple Shen Guang, the 2nd patriarch of Ch'an Buddhism discovered it but couldn't decipher its meaning alone. He consulted another Ch'an master and together they understoof the Buddhist philosophies embedded into this writing. However, since the two weren't martial arts experts, they didn't discover that the robe's contents were also a powerful inner strength technique. It wasn't until later when Shen Guang met Li Jing, one of the heroes of the Tang dynasty and one of its founding generals, that the two discussed and discovered that what Damo left was indeed a profound martial arts text, hence the creation of Yi Jin Jing.

    The abbot then went on to explain that YJJ was Shaolin's most prized possession and that it couldn't be taught to outsiders because of its immense strength. He doesn't hint at the fact that it had been modified from its original and seems to imply that it was in the same form that it had been, interpreted by Shen Guang and Li Jing over 800 years ago during the Tang Dynasty. So, this is some evidence that the DGSD and XAJH versions of Yi Jin Jing were one and the same.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    It could be due to one (or all) of the following:
    Moreover, DGSD's YJJ is extremely difficult to master, while SOD's YJJ is cake in comparison. Do we not think that the more difficult/dangerous a martial art to master, the more powerful? It is usually the case.

    I am merely paraphrasing something Laviathan has said before, and I am in agreement with what he said.
    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    So what if 1000 arrows are targetted at our wuxia hero? LHC's missile breaking stance can deflect thousands of projectiles in 1 stance and send them back to the enemy. The more arrows the better!

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    RE PJ:

    Not necessarily. Look at the martial arts of Passionless Valley, Jue Qing Gu. It was extremely hard/complicated to learn, but not very strong/effective.

    I am rather in agreement with Candide on this.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing
    RE PJ:

    Not necessarily. Look at the martial arts of Passionless Valley, Jue Qing Gu. It was extremely hard/complicated to learn, but not very strong/effective.

    I am rather in agreement with Candide on this.
    Not knowing much about Passionless Valley, is that martial art really complicated, or just complicated for the not-so-bright pupil(s)?

    I have rather fond perception of martial arts learned unconsciously. in addition to yjj of DGSD, another example is the Ode to Gallantry martial art. Look at its awesome power.
    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    So what if 1000 arrows are targetted at our wuxia hero? LHC's missile breaking stance can deflect thousands of projectiles in 1 stance and send them back to the enemy. The more arrows the better!

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    Senior Member rabadi's Avatar
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    Candide, can you include analysis on YJJ in DOMD too? If you do, thanks in advance.

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Another example, PJ, would be the 1000 Spiders, 10000 Poisons Finger technique that Yan Li and her mother in HSDS practiced. Extremely hard to learn but weak as...

    rabadi, I've only read LDJ 1st ed (but I hear JY didn't change much if at all in 2nd ed) and the part about YJJ was very brief. It was just said by the Damo Hall leader that the top monks in Shalin had all practiced Yi Jin Jing.

    So, this is some evidence that the DGSD and XAJH versions of Yi Jin Jing were one and the same.
    IMO it only suggests that they had the same origin, which has no conflict with what I said. My speculation was that some monk between DGSD and SPW (likely to be after HSDS) reinterpreted YJJ, just like those monks and Li Jing did, to give it more...sense, making it more practical.

    In fact, one can argue that the YJJ in SPW was more Buddhist, since in DGSD, for all we are presented with, YJJ was mastered by two: a mad monk (how useful was that !) and You Tan Zhi, who used it to kill many people ! What harm did SPW's YJJ do ? Nothing
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide

    2: YTZ's inner power boost

    YJJ alone would never give him that result. YTZ would've had to practice it for another 200 years, given his ability, to reach the level that he did in DGSD. Luckily for him, he was using it out of depression to save his own life from the icy poison of the Icy Silkworm. This combination created a magical boost which saw him reach Xiao Feng's level of inner power within a few years. Note: there was a very similar boost to ZWJ in HSDS. YJJ therefore could only take half the credit for YTZ's progress.

    Other than YTZ, it was said that only one crazy monk in Shaolin happened to learn YJJ "the right way", i.e he didn't really want to master it, he was just curious, and he mastered YJJ. I'd say that the Sweeper Monk mastered it too, so that makes it 3 people who could. Even smart ones like Jiu Mo Zhi couldn't learn it. Other Shaolin monks in various generations tried it but couldn't get any result, and they thought that it was worthless and overhyped (hence they didn't care that much after Ah Zhu stole the original Sanskrit copy). In my opinion, that is one poorly written/developed martial art. Imagine a car that can only run faster than 40kph on a specific road (among 1 million of them) with a specific kind of driver in a specific weather condition... That would be one poorly designed and engineered designed product.

    The YJJ in SPW, on the other hand, was mastered by Feng Zhang, and also by the Abbot before him. Feng Zhang was probably the 2nd best fighter in SPW, after DFBB. His YJJ inner power was so powerful that Ren Wo Xing's XXDF couldn't suck even just a little bit of inner energy off him. That YJJ, in a very short space of time, could help LHC cure his inner power injury caused by zillions of powerful different inner energy streams inside his body. Efficiency-wise, that would be a clear win for YJJ of SPW.

    If A mastered DGSD's YJJ thoroughly and B mastered SPW's YJJ thoroughly, it'd be hard to say who would be the better fighter, and we would have to rely on weak theories like the Deterioration Theory to guess the winner. However, since DGSD's YJJ was so hard to master, it was pretty much useless compared to SPW's YJJ. If I were a practitioner, I know what I would pick.
    I have to completely disagree with this point. Perhaps I'm just mad but I remember DGSD mentioning several times that YTZ failed to truly master the YJJ, for example when he got infected by the icy silkworm poison it was mentioned that the full YJJ could easily overcome it, but because YTZ had only begun training it the YJJ could only overcome the poison by merging with it, resulting in YTZs extremely cold and poisonous internal strength. From what I remember YTZ learned 50% of the YJJ at most before he lost it (probably a lot less, he couldn't even read the instructions!), so when thinking of the internal strength one could achieve with the full DGSD YJJ I think of it as at least as different from YTZ's internal strength than that of ZWJ before and after he was trapped in the cloth sack, which is a enormous difference!

    I always thought of the DGSD YJJ as the by far most powerful internal energy cultivation in all of JY's novels and simply on another level from anything else, which also explains why it's so hard to learn, unlike the one in SPW which, while good for it's time, was not that outstanding (Feng Zhang may have had profound internal energy for his era but was only somewhat ahead of the other leading figures of it).

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    How useful/powerful is it if nobody can practice it ? Besides, we don't know how powerful one is if he fully masters DGSD's YJJ or SPW's YJJ. They could both be the same in the end. Maybe SPW's YJJ is the same version with better or clearer explanations.

    Also, as you just said yourself, if it weren't for the Icy Silkworm, YTZ would never have that power. He could practice YJJ from the Sung dynasty until the Cultural Revolution and never get anywhere near XF's level.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    How useful/powerful is it if nobody can practice it ? Besides, we don't know how powerful one is if he fully masters DGSD's YJJ or SPW's YJJ. They could both be the same in the end. Maybe SPW's YJJ is the same version with better or clearer explanations.

    Also, as you just said yourself, if it weren't for the Icy Silkworm, YTZ would never have that power. He could practice YJJ from the Sung dynasty until the Cultural Revolution and never get anywhere near XF's level.
    Actually the only thing we know is that YTZ's incomplete YJJ allowed him to reach a level of internal strength comparable to the top fighters of his era (obviously not counting guys that stole/were given internal strenght from others) in a incredibly short amount of time, eventhough he was extremely bad at any kind of martial arts. From this we can logically conclude that someone who is talented, and has achieved full mastery of the YJJ for several years will be far more powerful than what YTZ achieved, and since YTZ's internal strength is already among the strongest in DGSD, where the internal strength levels were far higher than in SPW, the DGSD YJJ obviously must be incredibly powerfull.

    While the Icy Silkworm poison gave YTZ's internal strength a extremely poisonous quality that he could never have reached by training the YJJ, it was specifically mentioned that the fully mastered YJJ would have been able to completely neutralise it without any problems, so obviously it is inferior to the full YJJ as well.

    As for SPW's YJJ, it seemed pretty obvious that Feng Zhang had mastered it completely to me, yet his internal strength just seemed a lot less impressive than even YTZ's incomplete YJJ did. SPW's YJJ cannot have been the exact same version because of the descriptions in the novels, SPW's YJJ was a text only whereas DGSD's YJJ had a large amount of illustrations (the only thing YTZ could understand and train by the way) with lot's of text that we sadly know nothing about. IMHO at best the SPW YJJ is a extremely simplified version of the "real" (older) DGSD YJJ, kinda like HSDS's shortcut 9Yin, though to me it looks like a entirely different and pretty obviously inferior skill.

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    I think you misinterpreted that part in the novel. YJJ alone could NEVER give YTZ that much power, because YTZ simply didn't have the ability to learn it, and as all Shaolin martial arts, it would take him an incredible amount of time (decades) to learn anything substantial. However, due to his "luck", the Icy Silkworm sort of triggered YJJ in his body because he had to learn YJJ to surpress the poison. At that point he was just learning it to survive, not because of greed, which is exactly what one needs to master YJJ. JY wrote that " the combination of orthodox YJJ inner power and unorthodox extreme cold poison of the Silkworm created one of the most powerful inner powers ever under heaven". Without the Silkworm, YTZ would never be able to do anything with YJJ.

    It was very similar to the luck ZWJ had with the Qian Kun Bag. If he weren't trapped in the bag and his 9 Yang was triggered by the tight compressed air inside the bag combined with the Cold Yin Finger hit he got from Cheng Kun, he would never be able to reach that level of inner power that quickly. In both cases (ZWJ and YTZ), the external material (Qian Kun Bag + Cold Yin Finger and Icy Silkworm) was compared by JY to a lighted match thrown on a barrel of gun powder. Without the seemingly insignificant match, the barrel of gun powder is useless, or at best, only has the potential of becoming powerful/useful.

    You seem to think that I was suggesting that YTZ's perverted YJJ is more powerful than the true original. Nope that is not the case. It's definitely weaker. However, how useful is the "real thing" if nobody can learn it ? That's the whole point of my argument.

    As for SPW's YJJ, it seemed pretty obvious that Feng Zhang had mastered it completely to me
    There is no evidence that suggests this. Feng Zhang had reached some significant level of YJJ, that was the best guess we could make from SPW, but nothing was said about him fully mastering it. If you do know, please tell.
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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    And another thing about SPW. XWT is described to have such tremendous internal energy, he is able to replicate (I personally think even exceed) the feat JY did with 9 Yang and the heavy buckets. Namely, XWT stamped perfect footprints in stone (as if in pudding) using internal energy, while talking, without breaking a sweat and without moving. Actually, JY is less impressive, he scrapes it away after taking a breath and with the weight of the buckets.

    RWX has WAY more internal energy than XWT. Far, far more. FZ matches RWX. JY is considered to have LOCH Greats level internal energy.

    Think about that.

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Little correction: it wasn't superhard Shaolin 1000 year old stone (in Jue Yuan's case) that XWT stamped his foot on. It was the normal stone on the floor. Still, it's quite possible to argue that the SPW fighters weren't much below the Trilogy Greats. Also, Fang Zhang's inner power was higher than RWX. RWX admitted this himself, and that was why he couldn't suck Fang Zhang's inner energy although he tried to several times.
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    Moderator Han Solo's Avatar
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    Long post by Candide. I guess exam time is coming soon. Good Luck!

    I'm a sucker for any DGSD and SOD discussions, so I'll try to go through candide's point one by one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    1: Deterioration Theory

    While generally, on average, martial arts (or fighters) in later generations are worse than previous generations, there are always plenty of exceptions. If you treat this theory as absolute, then there will be plenty of counter-examples, such as Hong Qi Gong's Dragon Palms being better than Xiao Feng's Dragon Palms (talking about the techniques, not the fighters) and GJ's DP being better than HQG's. Or Xuan Ming elders would kick plenty of butts (those who weren't attached to Greats) if they were in LOCH and ROCH. Or DFBB vs Greats. I think it's not possible to conclude that DGSD's YJJ is superior to SPW's YJJ because of this theory. It's afterall just a theory.
    I agree. But for other reasons. The deterioration theory would postulate that the later generations would be slightly weaker. If the text of YJJ are the same between DGSD and SOD, the performance of those who have learned it ought to be roughly the same.

    However, this is not the case with regards to YTZ and Fang Zhen. YTZ learned at most 70% of YJJ + Cold Poisons seems to be superior to Fang Zhen who mastered it. This is incoherent with the original supposition above. Clearly, something is different with either the versions of YJJ, or there are clear synergistic advantage of the cold poison.

    Thus, throw the deterioration theory out of the calculation at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide




    2: YTZ's inner power boost

    YJJ alone would never give him that result. YTZ would've had to practice it for another 200 years, given his ability, to reach the level that he did in DGSD. Luckily for him, he was using it out of depression to save his own life from the icy poison of the Icy Silkworm. This combination created a magical boost which saw him reach Xiao Feng's level of inner power within a few years. Note: there was a very similar boost to ZWJ in HSDS. YJJ therefore could only take half the credit for YTZ's progress.

    Other than YTZ, it was said that only one crazy monk in Shaolin happened to learn YJJ "the right way", i.e he didn't really want to master it, he was just curious, and he mastered YJJ. I'd say that the Sweeper Monk mastered it too, so that makes it 3 people who could. Even smart ones like Jiu Mo Zhi couldn't learn it. Other Shaolin monks in various generations tried it but couldn't get any result, and they thought that it was worthless and overhyped (hence they didn't care that much after Ah Zhu stole the original Sanskrit copy). In my opinion, that is one poorly written/developed martial art. Imagine a car that can only run faster than 40kph on a specific road (among 1 million of them) with a specific kind of driver in a specific weather condition... That would be one poorly designed and engineered designed product.

    The YJJ in SPW, on the other hand, was mastered by Feng Zhang, and also by the Abbot before him. Feng Zhang was probably the 2nd best fighter in SPW, after DFBB. His YJJ inner power was so powerful that Ren Wo Xing's XXDF couldn't suck even just a little bit of inner energy off him. That YJJ, in a very short space of time, could help LHC cure his inner power injury caused by zillions of powerful different inner energy streams inside his body. Efficiency-wise, that would be a clear win for YJJ of SPW.

    If A mastered DGSD's YJJ thoroughly and B mastered SPW's YJJ thoroughly, it'd be hard to say who would be the better fighter, and we would have to rely on weak theories like the Deterioration Theory to guess the winner. However, since DGSD's YJJ was so hard to master, it was pretty much useless compared to SPW's YJJ. If I were a practitioner, I know what I would pick.


    Briefly, this is purely speculation. AFAIK, the only written evidence of the benefit of the Cold Poison is that it makes YTZ palm so much more powerful in the fights against QF. Your theory makes sense, but it was not specifically stated.

    There's no clear evidence that Sweeper Monk mastered YJJ.

    YJJ in DGSD and SOD were not that dis-similar. Both versions need fate or yuan. Without this buddhism concept, it was hard for ppl to encounter it and to learn it.

    Regarding JMZ inability to learn YJJ, i think that has less to do with YJJ and more to do with the multiple varying types of martial arts that he is attempting to master. From XWXG (a Taoist based) to YJJ (supreme buddhist based) martial arts, plus all 72 Shaolin skills with varying requirements. That is why he failed. Not that YJJ was obscure.

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    Moderator Han Solo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide



    3: YJJ in SPW != YJJ in DGSD

    Due to the above, I believe this is true. YJJ in SPW must have been rewritten or reinterpreted by some Shaolin monk in the Ming dynasty (why, because the monks in HSDS didn't know it). One would then argue that because DGSD's YJJ was written by Damo, it must be better than SPW's YJJ written by some unknown monk. I believe that it would be an invalid argument. Not everything Damo touched turned to gold I'm not saying that DGSD's YJJ was shit, but it's not automatically superior to SPW's YJJ or any other inner power art like 9 Yin, 9 Yang etc. just because it was written by Damo. Moreover, we have the "it also depends on the practitioner" argument as well, which is a very strong one.


    As bliss said above, both versions are said to originate from Damo. One question: I always have the impression that the YJJ in SOD is not learned via Sanskrit anymore. Is it true?


    Quote Originally Posted by Candide


    4: YJJ in DGSD: one of the two best martial arts in the world ?

    Was it really ? Or was it just Murong Bo's opinion ? I believe it's the latter. Murong Bo's opinions of top level martial arts were quite skewed, IMO. He considered 6MSJ as the best, but without an incredible inner power (like Duan Yu had), it wouldn't be that useful. If Duan Yu had the same inner power as Xiao Feng (in DGSD his was higher than XF's) would his 6MSJ be any better than XF's 28 Dragon Palms ? Or Xu Zhu's Tian Shan 6 Yang Palms ? I doubt it. Sure XF thought in that Shaolin battle that if he were in MRF's position, he wouldn't know how to block Duan Yu's sword energy but I think it was mostly because Duan Yu had way more inner energy than Xiao Feng. Xu Zhu would have no problem with that.

    Murong Bo also had a completely wrong idea about Shaolin 72 arts, which resulted in his serious internal injuries. Additionally, he underrated the Dog Beating Stick technique and had a completely wrong method of teaching his son. Murong Fu learnt so many techniques that he became a case of Jack of all traces, Master of none, at least when compared to other great fighters in DGSD. If MRF concentrated on a few, with his ability, he could've been a lot better than that.

    What I'm trying to say with the above paragraphs is that Murong Bo's opinion of YJJ should not be taken as the truth. Other than him, nobody valued YJJ that highly in SOD anyway.

    YJJ in SPW on the other hand was a lot more well-known and respected. It was more "proven" than its DGSD brother.
    Nope. MuRong Bo's view were valid. 6MSJ is really one of the top orthodox martial arts at time of DGSD. One needs to be consistent in believing the ability of martial artists to judge a martial art moves or techniques. If one believes that MRB performed a flawless defensive move while being pummeled by Sweeper Monk, one ought to also believe other martial related statements. We are talking about top martial artists with experience and saw or learned a wide range of things, not someone like Lam Ping Zhi in SOD.

    Further, 6MSJ is really unblockable within 10 feet from descriptions in DGSD.

    Third, the problem that MRF have with the dog beating stances was that he does not have the complete formula. H7G told YG in ROCH that knowing the external without the internal moves would not make one master the dog beating stances. MRF's struggle should not be blamed on MRB.

    Fourth, what does MRF's struggle got to do with MRB's opinion about YJJ?

    Fifth, how many ppl know the extent of the power of YJJ in SOD? Not many, i'm willing to wager.

    Han Solo

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    Little correction: it wasn't superhard Shaolin 1000 year old stone (in Jue Yuan's case) that XWT stamped his foot on. It was the normal stone on the floor. Still, it's quite possible to argue that the SPW fighters weren't much below the Trilogy Greats. Also, Fang Zhang's inner power was higher than RWX. RWX admitted this himself, and that was why he couldn't suck Fang Zhang's inner energy although he tried to several times.
    I think any stone would be way over 1000 years old!

    But anyway, I shall insist that XWT did it on limestone while JY did it on granite in order to keep my personal JY world sane....

    As for the % of YJJ YTZ mastered. It was stated as not less then 60%.

    That statement about SOD YJJ bring all text and DGSD YJJ having pictures is valid. Someone must have mucked with it during the intervening period.

    I think its fair to say

    SOD YJJ : More practical.
    DGSD YJJ : More powerful.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Tazzy1972's Avatar
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    all in all YJJ is a pretty useful skill
    TaZzY InC

  19. #19
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    But anyway, I shall insist that XWT did it on limestone while JY did it on granite in order to keep my personal JY world sane....
    I'm sorry, but I'll have to point this out.

    The chains bound to JueYuan's feet dragged over the lines and erasing it. When the monks saw that, everyone called: "Good!"

    TianMing, WuSe and WuXiang were surprised and happy to see that this old and pedant monk had such powerful internal energy. They lived in the monastery all these years and never realised it before. TianMing knows that no matter how powerful the internal energy of one person is, he/she can never leave such deep prints in the ground. The reason why JueYuan could do this was that his iron buckets were filled with water so in total, there was 200 kilograms.

    Before JueYuan could erase all the lines, He ZuDao spoke to him: "Very powerful internal energy, I don't have such powerful internal strength."

    JueYuan felt his energy growing in his public region but his legs were getting tired.
    Note that he needed the bucket chains to actually do the scraping. And he was tired afterwards.

    However, these were indeed stone tiles.

    According to Lanny's SPW translation, XWT did his feat on "bricks". There's two ways to take this. If we're talking about traditional bricks, then his feat is even more amazing since his control was enough to make sure that the prints were perfectly smooth (bricks crumble easily). If lanny meant blocks of stone, then we can take it as slate which I suppose is somewhat easier. Nonetheless, to press in two inches without cracking the stone...
    Remember, XWT did it easily, while talking.


    It seems to me that the feats in SPW tend be be very impressive as well, but more subtle.


    That statement about SOD YJJ bring all text and DGSD YJJ having pictures is valid. Someone must have mucked with it during the intervening period.
    I thought the DGSD YJJ had both the script and pictures. YTZ could only follow the pictures of course since he didn't know how to read sanskrit.

    And didn't someone in this forum say that Shaolin actually had translations of YJJ by now, but they all thought it was a lowly book that wasn't exactly useful?
    Last edited by ChronoReverse; 10-16-04 at 11:42 AM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    ... not to mention even Dugu Qiubai would be pleased to spar with Ren Woxing. Now there's more evidence than ever that RWX/Fang Zheng/Linghu Chong =~ Greats.

    hehe
    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    So what if 1000 arrows are targetted at our wuxia hero? LHC's missile breaking stance can deflect thousands of projectiles in 1 stance and send them back to the enemy. The more arrows the better!

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