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Thread: How Great is Huang Rong ?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
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    Default How Great is Huang Rong ?

    Huang Rong is arguably the most intellegent female main character in the entire Jin Yong universe. In addition, she is well-known for her superior cooking skills.

    In terms of martial arts talent, she knows a lot of martial arts but perhaps on the surface only, with the exception of Peach Blossom Techniques and Dog Beating Stick Techniques. The two techniques that she is really good at. Despite being the only other person who knows 9 Yin completely, she is the type of fighter who likes to use brain first then martial arts to complement.

    Additionally, by the time of ROCH, she had other duties to fulfill, being a wife to North Hero, leader of Beggar Union, etc. If you have a husband like GJ, father like HYS, teacher like H7Q, and hundreds of first class figthers as acquintances, then I guess for a person as smart as her, there isn't any immediate needs to advance her martial arts skills. She was already in the upper echelon of top fighters in LOCH/ROCH anyway.

    Many believes that she can defeat Xiao LongNu (Little Dragon Girl) despite the impression that XLN is better in martial arts than HR.

    So, just how great is Huang Rong if she uses both her intellegence and her existing martial arts at her peak ?

    Do you think she have a chance to beat one of the Greats ? GWM ? LHC ? MRF ? LCY ? YBQ ?

    How far can she go with her wits and existing martial arts at her peak ?

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    She had the breadth but not the depth of a Great in martial arts. She would have no chance of defeating one. In a true one on one fight, intelligence can only decide the victory between two equivalent fighters (or about the same level) but it cannot do magic. I believe at her peak, HR would be around 70% of a Great. A Great would have to work hard to defeat her though (similar to GJ vs Greats at the end of LOCH).
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    Senior Member - L1n -'s Avatar
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    meh i would say she can beat ybq, but the rest i very much doubt, i doubt she can beat xln.

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    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    She had the breadth but not the depth of a Great in martial arts. She would have no chance of defeating one. In a true one on one fight, intelligence can only decide the victory between two equivalent fighters (or about the same level) but it cannot do magic. I believe at her peak, HR would be around 70% of a Great. A Great would have to work hard to defeat her though (similar to GJ vs Greats at the end of LOCH).
    Are you sure about that ?

    Remember Yang Guo during the heroes meeting. He's not as smart as Huang Rong but yet with his insufficient martial arts skills, he was able to defeat two formidable opponents better than he was. Off course, part of it with Huang Rong's help. But hey in those two fights, he used his brain more than his martial arts skills.

    I honestly believe Huang Rong at per peak combined with her intellegence can defeat ANY fighters who one-two notches better than her in terms of martial arts, and you can bump it up to three notches for someone with better martial arts but zero intellegence.

    Huang Rong at her peak combined with her intellegence should be able to win against someone like YBQ, any leaders of five sword alliance schools in XAJH, 4 Protectors of Ming Cult, 1st & 2nd Hero of Wudang, any disciples of GWM, any disciples of Yi Deng, any disciples of HYS, including MCF in LOCH, anyone in Flying Fox of a Snowy Mountain, Duke of Mount Deer, and Book & Sword.

    As discuss in previous thread about ranking the women of the Trilogy, HR should be able to defeat XLN and I have the impression that she could handle 4th, 3rd, and 2nd Evil of DGSD, including the 4 Dali Guards.

    At her peak, She would still give quite a fight against any Greats, including MRF, although she would be overwhelmed, unless off course, she's fighting against some nutcase like West Venom. Intellegence will reign there. Somehow I have a feeling that she has a good chance against GWM, simply because he doesn't have a Great quality mentality.

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    I doubt it. Her martial arts was described as being about equivalent to Li Mochou's. Intelligence can help, but only in certain situations.
    Last edited by Ren Wo Xing; 10-15-04 at 05:54 PM.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing
    I doubt it. Her martial arts was described as being about equivalent to Li Mochou's. Intelligence can help, but only in certain situations.
    Wong Yung's martial arts were better than Lee Mok Sau's. Even with the extenuating factors of having not recovered from recent twin childbirth and having to fight with caution to avoid injuring baby Gwok Seung, Wong Yung still held a notable upper hand over Lee Mok Sau in terms of martial arts during their one and only battle against each other. A healthy Wong Yung unfettered by concerns for her daughter's safety would dispatch Lee Mok Sau with little trouble.

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    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    Hr's martial arts is below GSZ(according 2 GF IIRC). XLN when healthy should be able to defeat GSZ without distraction from YG and HR. So HR should be<XLN when XLN full health. XLN's martial arts are not on the same level as GWM although she can keep up with him for some time. I think GWM is roughly equal to rest of greats pre-16 years seperation with exception of maybe ZBT and about equal after. So wouldnt that make HR< then greats but quite a bit?
    wow..04-08....4 years just like that..time flies..

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    [defeat...] anyone in Flying Fox of a Snowy Mountain, Duke of Mount Deer, and Book & Sword.
    She would wipe the floor with these guys from the Qing dynasty (except Jiunan).
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member rabadi's Avatar
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    Uh-oh... this will turn into another HR vs. XLN thread

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    Senior Member Tazzy1972's Avatar
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    amd that into a mrs YG and MRs GJ competition
    TaZzY InC

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    Intelligence has it's place in some (but not all) battles... Probably works if

    1) you have time to prepare some traps / tricks

    2) your opponent is willing to listen to some tricks you say to him

    Does not work if you are surprised by your enemy or your enemy is bent on killing you and ignores whatever you say to trick him. In such a case, you'd have to rely on pure combat skill.

    In such a case, HuangRong would have great trouble with the fighters ranked as Greats. Firstly, her qi is not as robust and abundant as someone like GJ or YG. Perhaps it's just me, but I also feel that her martial arts skill would be below someone who devotes more of his life to practice and meditation (or is simply a fanatic eg OuYangFeng) As a mother and a leader, she has too many commitments to fully devote herself to true mastery of the art. Thus she will always be below some one like XiaoLongNu, who devoted 100% of her life for many years to mastery of combat, and who also relies purely on martial arts skill (no trickery) to win battles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homura
    Intelligence has it's place in some (but not all) battles... Probably works if

    1) you have time to prepare some traps / tricks

    2) your opponent is willing to listen to some tricks you say to him

    Does not work if you are surprised by your enemy or your enemy is bent on killing you and ignores whatever you say to trick him. In such a case, you'd have to rely on pure combat skill.

    In such a case, HuangRong would have great trouble with the fighters ranked as Greats. Firstly, her qi is not as robust and abundant as someone like GJ or YG. Perhaps it's just me, but I also feel that her martial arts skill would be below someone who devotes more of his life to practice and meditation (or is simply a fanatic eg OuYangFeng) As a mother and a leader, she has too many commitments to fully devote herself to true mastery of the art. Thus she will always be below some one like XiaoLongNu, who devoted 100% of her life for many years to mastery of combat, and who also relies purely on martial arts skill (no trickery) to win battles.
    Huang Rong at her peak with her intellegence can definitely defeat Little Dragon girl. It might not be easy but a dumb idiot like XLN could easily be tricked by HR. It is safe to say that her intellegence will prevail at the end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoieGras
    It might not be easy but a dumb idiot like XLN could easily be tricked by HR.
    Do you think you should proof-read what you type?

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    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duguxiaojing
    Hr's martial arts is below GSZ(according 2 GF IIRC). XLN when healthy should be able to defeat GSZ without distraction from YG and HR. So HR should be<XLN when XLN full health. XLN's martial arts are not on the same level as GWM although she can keep up with him for some time. I think GWM is roughly equal to rest of greats pre-16 years seperation with exception of maybe ZBT and about equal after. So wouldnt that make HR< then greats but quite a bit?
    When was it said that HR is below the level of GSZ?
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Greetings

    Quote Originally Posted by superboy
    When was it said that HR is below the level of GSZ?
    Laviathan mentioned it in this topic
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    When was it said that HR is below the level of GSZ?
    I think it was mentioned by GF. She was surprised that XLN could match GSZ evenly since she believed that evern her mother (HR) could not.
    wow..04-08....4 years just like that..time flies..

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duguxiaojing
    I think it was mentioned by GF. She was surprised that XLN could match GSZ evenly since she believed that evern her mother (HR) could not.
    Several things here:

    1. Gwok Fu's judgment is dubious. She is not a particularly bright or experienced young woman.

    2. When Wong Yung fought Gung Sheun Tze for the first and only time, she still had not recovered from childbirth. The Wong Yung who fought Gung Sheun Tze was not at the peak of her abilities.

    3. Wong Yung's Beat Dog Stick Technique skill was not inferior to that of North Beggar Hung 7 Gung. Wong Yung lacked Hung 7 Gung's raw power, but her skill was regarded as equal to his. Moreover, although Wong Yung's inner power was inferior to that of the Greats, she nevertheless probably had the strongest inner power in the world among females at the time. That's plenty to give Gung Sheun Tze a run for his money (Gung Sheun Tze was only about as good as the likes of Siu Seung Tze, Wan Hak Sai, Lui Mor Singh, etc.).

  18. #18
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    1. Gwok Fu's judgment is dubious. She is not a particularly bright or experienced young woman.
    agreed she's usually clueless and arrogant but usually not towards her family. If anything she always overrates her family. (although u could argue that it's impossible since her father is the legendary hero GJ )


    When Wong Yung fought Gung Sheun Tze for the first and only time, she still had not recovered from childbirth. The Wong Yung who fought Gung Sheun Tze was not at the peak of her abilities.
    True but so was XLN proboally more so then HR. Although she could still fight her inner power was affected greatly and that showed when the battle progressed against pretty much everyone who was top tier.
    Xln also never had close to the depth of inner power which HR had.


    Wong Yung's Beat Dog Stick Technique skill was not inferior to that of North Beggar Hung 7 Gung. Wong Yung lacked Hung 7 Gung's raw power, but her skill was regarded as equal to his. Moreover, although Wong Yung's inner power was inferior to that of the Greats, she nevertheless probably had the strongest inner power in the world among females at the time. That's plenty to give Gung Sheun Tze a run for his money (Gung Sheun Tze was only about as good as the likes of Siu Seung Tze, Wan Hak Sai, Lui Mor Singh, etc.).
    Yeah GSZ is proboally around or slightly above the strongest mongo elites minus GWM. I still believe XLN is stronger then HR though. I have a hard time imagining HR disarming all those QZ students and taking on all those mongo mercenaries at once. I think at the end of the 16 years they should be close though due to HR's inner power but the PHOJM's speed and technique is really impressive.( Not taking anything away from HR's DBS and JFS techniue and the second rate PB palm sword tech...forgot name.)

    Anyways i think HR and XLN are both a level below the greats and GWM. Yeah that means HR 2 ill take ZBT's word for it .
    wow..04-08....4 years just like that..time flies..

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    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duguxiaojing
    I think it was mentioned by GF. She was surprised that XLN could match GSZ evenly since she believed that evern her mother (HR) could not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    1. Gwok Fu's judgment is dubious. She is not a particularly bright or experienced young woman.
    There were several hints given in the novel. In Chapter 31, it was written: "Guo had fought Gongsun Zhi before and she knew his martial arts level is high, even her mother was no match for him."

    AND FURTHERMORE...

    In Chapter 29, when fighting Gongsun Zhi, Huang Rong and Li Mochou both thought: "This man has strong martial arts and is also very cunning, if I was alone, I probably would have lost to him."

    Gongsun Zhi fled, and the women pursued him. But Huang Rong and Li Mochou, despite their qinggong skills, are not able to catch up with him. Only when Gongsun Zhi had captured Guo Fu and Wanyan Ping and tried to run away with a girl under each arm, did Huang and Li outrun him.

    With the help of Yelü Qi, they were able to rescue the girls. Gongsun Zhi fled and... "Huang Rong and the others did not dare to pursue him"
    ¹ï ¼Ä ¶· ¬½ ¡A ±Ù ¯ó °£ ®Ú ¡A ¨k ¤k ¦Ñ ¥® ¡A ¤£ ¯d ¤@ ¤H

  20. #20
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan
    There were several hints given in the novel. In Chapter 31, it was written: "Guo had fought Gongsun Zhi before and she knew his martial arts level is high, even her mother was no match for him."

    AND FURTHERMORE...

    In Chapter 29, when fighting Gongsun Zhi, Huang Rong and Li Mochou both thought: "This man has strong martial arts and is also very cunning, if I was alone, I probably would have lost to him."

    Gongsun Zhi fled, and the women pursued him. But Huang Rong and Li Mochou, despite their qinggong skills, are not able to catch up with him. Only when Gongsun Zhi had captured Guo Fu and Wanyan Ping and tried to run away with a girl under each arm, did Huang and Li outrun him.

    With the help of Yelü Qi, they were able to rescue the girls. Gongsun Zhi fled and... "Huang Rong and the others did not dare to pursue him"
    This is all true, but the qualifier under the circumstances is necessary. I do not believe that Wong Yung at her default level in ROCH is incapable of standing toe-to-toe with Gung Sheun Tze. We've previously concluded that Mui Chiu Fung in LOCH was more powerful than Lee Mok Sau in ROCH. Wong Yung in ROCH, when at full strength, is considered to be far better than Mui Chiu Fung had ever been. How could Wong Yung and Lee Mok Sau, therefore, be at the same level?

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