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Thread: Why do people hate on Yang Guo but not Zhang Wu Ji?

  1. #1
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    Default Why do people hate on Yang Guo but not Zhang Wu Ji?

    I read on this forum that some people hate Yang Guo for being a 'coward', or 'irresponsible' in leaving XiangYang to fall to the Mongols, choosing instead to honeymoon with his sweetheart.

    However, Zhang Wu Ji is equally irresponsible in leaving Ming Jiao in the hands of other people, while he, being the hormonally charged emotional stupid boy he is, charges around 'pao niu' (chasing girls) and looking for his godfather. Later on, the left MingJiao in the hands of a tyrant, who would sacrifice the lives of countless individuals to fuel his ambitions...

    So, why hate on YG alone? ZWJ deserves our contempt even more, does he not?

  2. #2
    Senior Member sufan's Avatar
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    Default yang guo zhang wu jie

    Who hates Yang Guo?

    I think from a political stand point both of them are not political leaders they would nto be a able to run a country--especially Zhang Wu Jie--

    ZWJ is way too undecisive. You can't have that in a leader--leaders need to be able to make decisions quick. ZWJ couldn't even figure out who he truly loves--he thought he loved Zhiumen the most, but then he promises to marry ZhiRou----and even at the end (in the book) he still not sure who he loves the most.

    A guy who can't decide cannot lead. Besides, throughout the story it really is his helpers in MingGou that made the decisions for him--he never really made the big decisions himself.

    And he didn't have a WongYong like GuoJing to help him (afterall it would be way too inconsiderate for him to be in love with Zhiumen but then ask her to go against her own country)--so what else could he do, but leave.



    YG was bought up as a motherless/fatherless child and he suffered alot throughout his life--alot of people has hurt him---
    Because of this, it forces him to have a certain stubbon personality--to be able to protect himself.

    He would not be a good leader either because throughout his life he's suffered so much that he needed to find a common ground to make him happy--and that was with XiaoLongLu. A guy who has been unhappy most of his life cannot lead a country.

    That is why he says at the end that GuoJing is the hero--and that is why he could never killed GuoJing even when he misunderstood that GuoJing was his father's murderer.

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    Junior Member lunesin's Avatar
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    Yang Guo is not a coward! I think he deserves to live the rest of his life peacefully with XLN after going through so much to be with her. Anyway if he was a coward he would not risk his life so many times to save the Guo family. Perhaps we should look at the good and heroic things that YG had done instead. Like how he prevented the Wu brothers from killing each other when he could have just let the Wu brothers kill each other.

    As for ZWJ i admit his indecisiveness is rather exasperating, but it's because his heart is too soft. I think many overlook the fact that ZWJ did not want to hurt anybody by rejecting any of the girls in their face.
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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homura
    I read on this forum that some people hate Yang Guo for being a 'coward', or 'irresponsible' in leaving XiangYang to fall to the Mongols, choosing instead to honeymoon with his sweetheart.
    I hate Yang Guo but I don't hate him because of those reasons. I hate him because he's an immature dickhead, an idiot (except for the end of ROCH) and a wussy. Actually I don't hate him. I just dislike him. There aren't many that I hate.

    However, Zhang Wu Ji is equally irresponsible in leaving Ming Jiao in the hands of other people,
    By the time ZWJ left the Ming cult, it was the most powerful organisation in China, every school in wulin was its ally, everyone was united to work towards the common goal: driving the Mongolians out of China. ZWJ knew from the start that he did not have leadership ability so he left the task to Yang Xiao who had the best strategic mind among top ranked Ming cult members. After HSDS, we knew that China was united once again and the country was in peace.

    By the time Yang Guo left Xiang Yang and went into seclusion, Sung was still all over the place, the country was still divided (the North still belonged to invaders) and the Mongolians were still a huge threat. He never appeared again and we knew that Sung fell to the Mongolians later on and its people suffered.

    while he, being the hormonally charged emotional stupid boy he is, charges around 'pao niu' (chasing girls)
    Oh no... it's a crime to chase after girls or are you just jealous that he had so many beautiful chicks running after him (he didn't chase after them btw) ?

    and looking for his godfather.
    To find and take care of the only family member he had, who was blind and living on a remoted island is bad ? Make sure you tell your parents that (and better start packing soon).

    Later on, the left MingJiao in the hands of a tyrant, who would sacrifice the lives of countless individuals to fuel his ambitions...
    Where did you get that bullshit from? He was definitely not a tyrant. He used many dirty tricks to reach his goal, but which founding emperor did not ? He didn't sacrifice "the lives of countless individuals". One of the main reasons why Zhu's army won all the time was that they won the hearts of the people, and they did it by trying to save lives as much as they could (also written in HSDS). The main point is that China, thanks to their hard work, was finally united. He could've been a bastard and killed many Ming cult members later on, but HSDS ended there, so everything else is just your own speculation and you have no right to judge what ZWJ "could've done" because HSDS already ended.

    So, why hate on YG alone? ZWJ deserves our contempt even more, does he not?
    ZWJ was a true hero. He managed to suppress his urge to revenge his parents' death (when he was the most powerful fighter and had all the rights to take revenge) and unite wulin as well as all Chinese rebels. He created the foundation to the victory against the Mongolians, driving them out of China and returned China to its people.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    ZWJ couldn't even figure out who he truly loves
    Could you, if you were in his shoes ? It's easy to judge as an outsider.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    ZWJ was a true hero. He managed to suppress his urge to revenge his parents' death (when he was the most powerful fighter and had all the rights to take revenge) and unite wulin as well as all Chinese rebels. He created the foundation to the victory against the Mongolians, driving them out of China and returned China to its people.




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    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    ZWJ was a true hero. He managed to suppress his urge to revenge his parents' death (when he was the most powerful fighter and had all the rights to take revenge) and unite wulin as well as all Chinese rebels.
    I beg to differ: Wuji never wanted to avenge his parents' death...
    對 敵 須 狠 , 斬 草 除 根 , 男 女 老 幼 , 不 留 一 人

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan
    I beg to differ: Wuji never wanted to avenge his parents' death...
    For me, that's another reason to admire Cheung Mo Gei. I'm not Christian, but I've always admired the Christian ethic of mercy and forgiveness. Cheung Mo Gei was not Christian either, but he certainly practiced Christian-like ideals...and that's worth admiring.

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    Senior Member charbydis's Avatar
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    I don't like either. One's too extreme aggressive and one's too passive.

    On why I like ZWJ more, is that he actually thought about other people more than himself, whereas YG is okay when he is alone, but when XLN is in the same room, he goes nuts and starts going all defensive.

    E.g. When the fisherman's oar broke and hit XLN's foot in Lu's Manor, Yang Guo jumped up and started yelling at at him for being deliberate, attacking his ego and leaving no respect for him in front of nearly all his friends and peers, and in front of hid victorious opponent, Prince Huo Du.

    If something had gone and hit ZM's foot, ZWJ would check if she was okay, check too see who did it and why, and if not accidently and the guy was losing the fight, he would help out.

    They both have heroic qualities, but I just don't like either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by charbydis

    On why I like ZWJ more, is that he actually thought about other people more than himself, whereas YG is okay when he is alone, but when XLN is in the same room, he goes nuts and starts going all defensive.

    E.g. When the fisherman's oar broke and hit XLN's foot in Lu's Manor, Yang Guo jumped up and started yelling at at him for being deliberate, attacking his ego and leaving no respect for him in front of nearly all his friends and peers, and in front of hid victorious opponent, Prince Huo Du.

    If something had gone and hit ZM's foot, ZWJ would check if she was okay, check too see who did it and why, and if not accidently and the guy was losing the fight, he would help out.
    Cheung Mo Gei would have definitely gone about things more cool-headedly and politely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    For me, that's another reason to admire Cheung Mo Gei. I'm not Christian, but I've always admired the Christian ethic of mercy and forgiveness. Cheung Mo Gei was not Christian either, but he certainly practiced Christian-like ideals...and that's worth admiring.
    I believe the ability to forgive is Buddhist.

    There are more than a few parallels between the teachings of Buddha and the teachings of Christ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Chen
    I believe the ability to forgive is Buddhist.

    There are more than a few parallels between the teachings of Buddha and the teachings of Christ.
    Ultimately, most of the world's great religions share a common core of teaching compassion. What's sad is that throughout history, people have abused religion to justify very discompassionate behavior...and that's really too bad.

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    Senior Member SkineePanda's Avatar
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    ZWJ's too damn nice(but not too pansy like Duan Yu). Like the super nice guy that you hate to hate. So it's kinda hard to say something bad about him.

    One thing I hate about him is that he's too soft and forgiving sometimes. Like against Song Qingshu, just kill the bastard. He been eyeing your girl, murdered your seventh uncle and all of Wudang wants him dead. Satisfy the masses and kill him. Even Z3F was no exception.

    Xuanming Elders: he should spare no effort in hunting these two down.

    Miejue: he should've b!tched-slapped her like Jet Li did in the movie version

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    Senior Member rabadi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan
    I beg to differ: Wuji never wanted to avenge his parents' death...
    In the 1st edition, the youngster ZWJ *probably* wanted, but as he grew up he let it go. That's why I suggested what if ZWJ was evil in Xiao Feng's thread Yang Guo evil?

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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkineePanda
    ZWJ's too damn nice(but not too pansy like Duan Yu). Like the super nice guy that you hate to hate. So it's kinda hard to say something bad about him.

    One thing I hate about him is that he's too soft and forgiving sometimes. Like against Song Qingshu, just kill the bastard. He been eyeing your girl, murdered your seventh uncle and all of Wudang wants him dead. Satisfy the masses and kill him. Even Z3F was no exception.

    Xuanming Elders: he should spare no effort in hunting these two down.

    Miejue: he should've b!tched-slapped her like Jet Li did in the movie version
    Him being extremely nice and forgiving is the main reason I like him.
    I like the fact that he values life a lot and not take the active role in hunting down people and exacting punishment/revenge on them.

    I know it'll be very gratifying for both viewers and readers to see him b!tched-slapped Mi Jue , but he can't do that, because Mi Jue is his elder and Er-
    Mei and Wu Dang always have a respectful relationship.
    Last edited by kidd; 10-28-04 at 06:58 AM.

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    Senior Member Yeung Gor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    For me, that's another reason to admire Cheung Mo Gei. I'm not Christian, but I've always admired the Christian ethic of mercy and forgiveness. Cheung Mo Gei was not Christian either, but he certainly practiced Christian-like ideals...and that's worth admiring.

    Mercy and forgiveness isn't only christain ethic. Buddhist views are the same as well as in many other religions.

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    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    ZWJ was a true hero. He managed to suppress his urge to revenge his parents' death (when he was the most powerful fighter and had all the rights to take revenge) and unite wulin as well as all Chinese rebels. He created the foundation to the victory against the Mongolians, driving them out of China and returned China to its people.
    Yeah but neither Gj or Yg had the means or support which WJ did to force mongo's out of china at the time.

    He could've been a bastard and killed many Ming cult members later on, but HSDS ended there, so everything else is just your own speculation and you have no right to judge what ZWJ "could've done" because HSDS already ended.
    I think people should think this way about Yg as well. For all we know he could have fell of a cliff and died after giving Gj the HIS. I could never picture YG purposely letting his own friends and family(technically but not by blood)die. Even for a life of seclusion with XLN. It just went against his character even the one of a young hot headed YG.
    wow..04-08....4 years just like that..time flies..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide

    Where did you get that bullshit from? He was definitely not a tyrant. He used many dirty tricks to reach his goal, but which founding emperor did not ? He didn't sacrifice "the lives of countless individuals". One of the main reasons why Zhu's army won all the time was that they won the hearts of the people, and they did it by trying to save lives as much as they could (also written in HSDS). The main point is that China, thanks to their hard work, was finally united. He could've been a bastard and killed many Ming cult members later on, but HSDS ended there, so everything else is just your own speculation and you have no right to judge what ZWJ "could've done" because HSDS already ended.

    .
    When roch ended china was in peace as well becos yg killed the mongol emperor which then led to yrs of internal conflict, so what r u on.

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    WTF? Zhang Wuji, along with Duan Yu (and perhaps Chen Jialuo) are the two/three most hated upon characters in all of JY canon! hehe

  20. #20
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeung Gor
    Mercy and forgiveness isn't only christain ethic. Buddhist views are the same as well as in many other religions.
    Please refer to Post # 12 in this thread.

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