Medieval soilder training

[Han Solo]

Just for fun, if you're the chief army instructor in Middle Age China, how would you choose your soilders and formations?

Would you teach them rudimentary kung fu and qing gong?

Or would you concentrate more on basic archery and formation fighting?

Or promote calvary charges?

[CC]

Are you talking about the JY world or the real world?

Real world would have concentration on mounted archers (learn from the Mongols!) and spear formations. From the Ming Dynasty on, start promoting gunpowder weapons. A late Ming Dynasty Imperial Fleet with better cannons and marines armed with firearms would have whooped butt all the way. And a firearm/cannon equipped army would have pushed all the way to Turkey at least.

In the JY world, should have a corp of highly trained guards versed in martial arts. Drill them with formations like the Big Dipper from QZ soothat they can contain elite martial artists and assassins.

In the TVB world, just give up! Quit the job, go spelunking around China and learn deadly martial arts. Eat every single wierd coloured toad/fish/mushroom I come across and make friends with all oversized animals I see. Why train an army when one palm blast takes out half of them?

[Tazzy1972]

in the computer world, just learn to release some virus

[Han Solo]

Talking of Jin Yong world with inputs from real history.

Even the Big Dipper formation cannot stand up to the Mongolian invasion.

So what sort of training would create an incredible army?

[Ken Cheng]

Judging from the relatively small number of competent martial artists even in wuxia fiction (and by "competent", I don't mean people like Kiu Fung or the L/ROCH Greats...I'm thinking more about people like Yeung Teet Sum and Gwok Siu Teen and that level), training men to become proficient martial artists seems to be a labor-intensive and time-consuming process with dubious returns on investment. Having individual troops who fight well is definitely a boon, but probably the combination of battlefield tactics, timing, familiarity with the environment, adequate supplies, war technology, and other factors play a greater outcome in pre-modern warfare than individual martial arts skills.

[Ren Wo Xing]

I'm not so sure how useful the Tian Gang Beidou Zhen would be. It was originally designed by Wang Chongyang as a way his seven disciples could counteract, in concert, Ou Yangfeng; or, in other words, a way for several weaker people to combine their power together to be used against one stronger person. I'm very much in doubt as to if it really would work well on the battlefield.

[TaiHan]

in the computer world, just learn to release some virus

are you talking about people like YK, and GWM who all failed in the end ?

[qiaofeng]

ill use light archer cavalvry, look how strong the mongol army was. and formation wise, ill use zhuge liang's qiankun bagu zhen. its gotta be pretty powerful as hes one of the most brilliant strategist alive, along with sun zi

[Battosai]

Considering how hard it is to be good in kung fu, I'd leave it to specialists, like SEAL or Delta Force. For the rest, I'd make sure they get paid regularly--the biggest bugaboo in any army was the lack of pay and the problems it causes (indiscipline, lack of espirit de corp, etc).

[Battosai]

Judging from the relatively small number of competent martial artists even in wuxia fiction (and by "competent", I don't mean people like Kiu Fung or the L/ROCH Greats...I'm thinking more about people like Yeung Teet Sum and Gwok Siu Teen and that level), training men to become proficient martial artists seems to be a labor-intensive and time-consuming process with dubious returns on investment. Having individual troops who fight well is definitely a boon, but probably the combination of battlefield tactics, timing, familiarity with the environment, adequate supplies, war technology, and other factors play a greater outcome in pre-modern warfare than individual martial arts skills.

It'd be different if we went by wuxia TV/cinema though...

One palm blast, the whole army's a toast, or you can have an invincible duo like in Hero that can fight their way through an army to the emperor's palace.

[charbydis]

I'll order half of them to farm first, to get enough food supplies for war.

Then train them in horse-riding, horse-back combat, archery, setting up traps, and teach them something about which plants are edible or have good water content, just in case they get lost in the wild. I'll also teach them on how to save energy and when to use the most force, and which part of a body is most vulnerable, so they know which parts to protect and which parts to attack.

I want some that can speak some language from an opposing nation (Monglian, Manchurian, Tibetan, Turkish, etc) so they can act as spies.

I prefer a few strong martial arts fighters (10 or 20) to tackle the stronger fighters, or to assasinate the opposing general when the time is right. Preferably with Qing Gong so they can escape faster to get to the target faster.

I guess in real combat, a combination of calvary, foot soldiers, archers and scouts are needed for success. You can expect all of them to be well-trained in martial arts since its going to be too time-consuming, unless they all volunteer. I think formations are pretty important, especially in different terrains, but that's more like the general's job rather than a trainer's.

[Tazzy1972]

or just train them to FART poisonous gases early chemical warfare

[JigSta]

or just train them to FART poisonous gases early chemical warfare

Chances are OYF already had a move like that

[Han Solo]

Regarding charbydis' suggestion, i think that it would be unfair that the soilders be forced to do both manual farming and also fighting. Their fighting efficiency would be destroyed.

My dream scenario would be an elite squad of assassins and spies with good martial arts behind enemy lines, spreading rumors, collecting informations and killing enemies.

Followed by an initial strong strong onslaught with gazillion arrows or cannons (if available), and then foor soilders trained with Yang family spears.

And with HYS, and Wong Yung as military advisers.

[Xiao Feng]

Use chemical warfare like charbydris suggested. Something like the Xi Xia Yi Pin Tang's Bei Su Qin Feng would have been enough to wipe out any army if used strategically.

[charbydis]

Use chemical warfare like charbydris suggested. Something like the Xi Xia Yi Pin Tang's Bei Su Qin Feng would have been enough to wipe out any army if used strategically.

That was Tazzy, not me, but I agree anyway!

To Han solo, the farming part is used to build their patience and endurance to withstand stresses of war. You can learn a lot about preserving strength by carrying heavy buckets (like which position and what parts of body to use), walking a lot will help prolong and stabilize their lungs' max capacity for when they have to run or charge, working in the heat helps get use to the heat of the desert, and it also trains their collaborative effort as a group (some do fertilizing, some do watering, etc). It also picks out which people are more likely to be rash and impatient, so they will be unsuitable for spy work.

[Laviathan]

Regarding charbydis' suggestion, i think that it would be unfair that the soilders be forced to do both manual farming and also fighting. Their fighting efficiency would be destroyed.

During the end of the Han dynasty, Cao Cao already introduced "farmer soldiers", which stimulated supply production. It did not diminish the fighting ability of Cao Cao's forces.

Of course, with martial arts heroes, this might prove difficult.

[rabadi]

How about being a shepherd soldier, instead of a farmer soldier? I bet GJ would have little or no difficulty being a shepherd and a soldier at the same time. I mean, in his youth he must have spent some time tending the sheep in the Mongolian plain, right?

[Han Solo]

I'm wondering if the psychological aspect of a farmer-soldier would be different to the full warrior mentality of a full-time professional soldier.

Further, regarding the chemical weapons, how can you first produce it in massive batch? and how to deliver it? Depending on the wind to do the job seems iffy to me.