The other Greats run the ROCH Mongol gauntlet

[Ken Cheng]

When Gwok Jing singlehandedly fought the Golden Wheel Monk, Wan Hak Sai, Siu Seung Tze, Lui Mor Singh, and Ma Gorn Jor in RETURN OF THE CONDOR HEROES, he put up a valiant fight but was eventually overwhelmed by the extremely uneven odds. The Golden Wheel Monk was quite nearly Gwok Jing's equal, and three of the other four martial artists (except for Ma Gorn Jor, who was weaker) were also extremely formidable. One of the reasons that Gwok Jing was overwhelmed was that he fought his five opponents straight up in a direct confrontation. That's very in line with his personality: direct and upfront.

If the same five Mongol mercenaries had fought the other Greats, however, things might have gone differently.

East Heretic Wong Yerk See: Wong Yerk See was a powerful martial artist and also a master of formations and traps. Gwok Jing tried using the Cheun Jen Sect's 7 Stars Northern Dipper Formation to elude his opponents, but was unsuccessful. Wong Yerk See's knowledge of formations, however, was far more profound than Gwok Jing's. It's possible that if Wong Yerk See had been in the same situation that Gwok Jing was in, he would have escaped unscathed by using formations to confuse his enemies.

West Poison Au Yeung Fung: I could see Au Yeung Fung using poison against his enemies. Au Yeung Fung could call out his legions of poisonous creatures to attack the four weaker martial artists, giving him a free hand to deal with the Golden Wheel Monk. One-on-one, Au Yeung Fung has a 50/50 chance against the Golden Wheel Monk.

South Emperor 1 Deng: Possibly, 1 Deng could use 1 Yeung Finger Technique to take out the four comparatively less powerful fighters before engaging the Golden Wheel Monk. I'm not entirely sure that even 1 Deng could pull this one off, however.

North Beggar Hung 7 Gung: Essentially, his approach to the battle would be very similar to Gwok Jing's (possibly with similar results). Maybe the addition of Beat Dog Stick Technique would throw the fight in his favor...at least enough to escape without significant injury.

Central Mischief Chow Bak Tung: Chow Bak Tung's fighting style is unpredictable and whimsical. He could make short work of the four weaker mercenaries, then take on the Golden Wheel Monk in a battle royal.

Ironically, although Gwok Jing might have been the best pure fighter among the Greats, his personality and fighting style might have made him the most vulnerable to the kind of attack the Mongols used against him.

[SkineePanda]

Both Yang Guo and Huang Yaoshi b!^@&ed-slapped both Xiao XiangZi and Yin Kexi(both of whom became much stronger after 16 yrs) and another flunkie like they were pinballs. There was no effort whatsoever in what they did to the three.

It seems that the only true threat in the gang-up is Jinlun Fawang himself, while each great would have minor problem beating up the others at will.

[Ken Cheng]

Both Yang Guo and Huang Yaoshi b!^@&ed-slapped both Xiao XiangZi and Yin Kexi(both of whom became much stronger after 16 yrs) and another flunkie like they were pinballs. There was no effort whatsoever in what they did to the three.

It seems that the only true threat in the gang-up is Jinlun Fawang himself, while each great would have minor problem beating up the others at will.

I agree that the weaker four pose no threat to any of the Greats without the Golden Wheel Monk's support (even if they were to gang up on the Great), but with the Golden Wheel Monk there, *then* they become dangerous. Fighting the Golden Wheel Monk requires 100% of the Great's attention and energy, which exposes the Great to being attacked by the others. Notably, I think it was Lui Mor Singh, not the Golden Wheel Monk, who drew first blood from Gwok Jing in that battle.

Yeung Gor and Wong Yerk See naturally had it easy because it was two Greats vs. three not-nearly-so-greats.

[SkineePanda]

I don't know. Jinlun Fawang's skills and power is so inconsistent. He matched palms with Guo Jing, suppposedly on the same equal level. Then in one fight, with the combined powers of 4 fighters, he couldn't even break through Guo Jing's defense. Then in another he managed to fight Great after Great after Great(though briefly each).....He just seem to have moody fighting abilities.

[allunderheaven]

I don't think that his kung fu is moody because even though 4 vs 1 against Guo Jing doesn't mean they will win straight away or even in a couple hundred stances because GJ is one of the strongest if not at the time so it would take much longer to waer GJ down. Just because GJ and GWM are said to be equaled doesn't mean adding more fighters mean victory straight away as GJ can hold his own in a disadvantage especially with his L/R technique and he attacked the flunkies with his HL18 palms and Kong Ming Fist which none of them dared to face head on

[JigSta]

GJ had much better techniques than GWM at the time. His knowledge of 9Yin and L/R probably allowed him to fight the most effective way (chi and technique distribution) against his 4 opponents. Ofcourse he was losing by the end, but he held out for quite a awhile.

I think ROCH OYF would go pretty well in that fight. His moves were unpredictable and quite insane, which would probably intimidate all the fighters (including GWM) from fighting him head on. That would give him time to either escape or take the weaker fighters out earlier.

[Ken Cheng]

The way that Gwok Jing approached this fight was darn odd. He started off with a very effective strategy by picking off Wan Hak Sai quickly with a blast of Hong Lung 18 Palms, thereby removing Wan from the equation. Yeung Gor then removed Ma Gorn Jor from the equation (for Ma's protection, really).

The strategy then should have been to pick off Siu Seung Tze and Lui Mor Singh quickly (the two of them were not that much more powerful than Wan Hak Sai) before taking on the Golden Wheel Monk. Somehow, Gwok Jing got away from that strategy and toyed with Siu Seung Tze and Lui Mor Singh for too long. When the Golden Wheel Monk joined the battle in earnest, the three of them were too much even for Gwok Jing to handle.

[TaiHan]

My opinion, GJ was dead even with those 3 fighters combined.

He only being to lose when YG interfered. This also when the 3 begin fighting each other for the title.

[Ken Cheng]

I think that Gwok Jing went about the battle the wrong way by relying primarily on his Hong Lung 18 Palms throughout the battle. Yes, it's Gwok Jing's best and most powerful martial art, but because it relies so much on raw power, Gwok Jing was, in some ways, playing right into the enemy's hands. The Golden Wheel Monk was no match for Gwok Jing in terms of technique, but the monk could give any of the Greats a run for their money in terms of inner power. Lui Mor Singh was also a fighter who relied primarily on power. In that case, I'm surprised that Gwok Jing did not pull out any of his 9 Yum Jen Ging techniques against the weaker fighters. The thing about the 9 Yum Jen Ging fighting techniques is that they are so unusual that most fighters find it difficult to react and defend against them (as we saw with Chow Chi Yerk in HSDS). Gwok Jing should have taken advantage of this quality of the 9 Yum techniques to attack Lui Mor Singh and Siu Seung Tze (but not the Golden Wheel Monk; he's too powerful for that...the only option there is to match force with force and hope that 9 Yum-powered Hong Lung 18 Palms is enough to overcome his Lung Jeung Bor Yeh Gung). I imagine that Gwok Jing could have taken Lui and Siu down quite quickly with the 9 Yum White Bone Claws and/or the Heart-Penetrating Palm. If I were in Gwok Jing's position, I would have tried those techniques on the weaker opponents.

[Candide]

I think you don't understand the situation very well, Ken. GJ could take down the first guy so quickly because it was a surprise attack right at the beginning of the fight. After that, the opponents were a lot more careful (after seeing that) and the GWM immediately got involved. It wasn't easy for GJ to take down the weaker two as the GWM was there to intervene at any time. GJ would have to wait for the chance. If given enough time, I believe he would eventually take down the other two. However, YG intervened and we will never know what would happen

[Ken Cheng]

I think you don't understand the situation very well, Ken. GJ could take down the first guy so quickly because it was a surprise attack right at the beginning of the fight. After that, the opponents were a lot more careful (after seeing that) and the GWM immediately got involved. It wasn't easy for GJ to take down the weaker two as the GWM was there to intervene at any time. GJ would have to wait for the chance. If given enough time, I believe he would eventually take down the other two. However, YG intervened and we will never know what would happen

You're probably right, although I wouldn't count on the Golden Wheel Monk covering for Siu Seung Tze and Lui Mor Singh. If anything, the Golden Wheel Monk would want to see Gwok Jing kill those two so that he (the GWM) alone would win the title of the Greatest Warrior in the Mongol Empire. Nevertheless, I can see the Golden Wheel Monk using Siu and Lui to soften Gwok Jing up a bit or, more likely, distract him so that the Golden Wheel Monk can get some cheap shots in.

[Candide]

Not really. The GWM had to cover for these guys, because if the two got killed too quickly by GJ, GWM would have to take on GJ alone, and that's something he wasn't quite willing to do.

[Dennis Chen]

Jing Lun Guo Shi.

[Tazzy1972]

think he will let the 2 help him kill gj and then mabe he would kill the 2 himself to cliam the award...

[flyingfox2002]

Easier said than done. I could also say GJ could be the one who could get out of the situation the easiest because he could do left right technique but the fact is, the lackeys were not standing there to let him take them out. GJ and anyone else in ROCH would have to devote nearly all attention to GW because one small mistake against GW and he would be dead.

Golden Wheel was formidable against anyone in ROCH. It wouldn't really matter who the 5 were ganging up on.

[ChronoReverse]

From looking at Athena's summary of chances in ROCH 3rd edition, it seems that GJ did far better since YG faked an internal injury, was carried on GJ's back, and GJ transferred internal energy to help YG in the middle of the battle before GJ got injured.

FUTHERMORE, this is right after GJ spent an entire night helping YG with his faked fire deviation.


Even in the 2nd edition, GJ still spent a lot of internal energy and effort the night before to help YG when YG faked his fire deviation. Frankly, GJ performed amazingly well against the Mongols.

[Laviathan]

From looking at Athena's summary of chances in ROCH 3rd edition, it seems that GJ did far better since YG faked an internal injury, was carried on GJ's back, and GJ transferred internal energy to help YG in the middle of the battle before GJ got injured.

Guo Jing did not do so. He was carrying Yang Guo on his back, and Yang Guo FELT Guo Jing's internal energy and was reminded of how Guo Jing transferred energy to him last night.

But Guo Jing was not transferring energy in the middle of the battle. the energy that Yang Guo felt was the power Guo Jing used for Qinggong and fighting.

[ChronoReverse]

Ah, I was thinking that GJ had become some kind of monster with limitless internal energy. That brings him back down to earth.

Still, exhausting your internal energy during the night and fighting powerful opponents the next day isn't a good way to increase your survival chances.

Just at this time, Fa Wang’s wheels and Xiao Xiang Zi’s short rod attacked. Guo Jing did not manage to snatch away the golden dragon whip with his first pull and he shouted out; a surge of great chi went through the whip into Yin Ke Xi. Yin Ke Xi felt as if a metal hammer struck his chest heavily, his eyes saw stars and he threw up a mouthful of blood. Guo Jing let go of the whip and blocked the attacks. Yin Ke Xi knew that he had suffered a severe injury and he pulled back slowly. He sat down on the floor and circulated his chi through his ‘dan tian’ and held back the urge to vomit blood.

Good grief, GJ didn't blast this guy at all. He sent such a huge surge of internal energy through the whip that the poor guy was severely injured.

Also interesting is how Ma Guang Zuo is so much inferior to GJ and the rest of the fighters that if he had continued to participate in the fight, even with his brute strength, he'd contribute nothing and just get himself injured or killed.

[ChronoReverse]

The way that Gwok Jing approached this fight was darn odd. He started off with a very effective strategy by picking off Wan Hak Sai quickly with a blast of Hong Lung 18 Palms, thereby removing Wan from the equation. Yeung Gor then removed Ma Gorn Jor from the equation (for Ma's protection, really).

The strategy then should have been to pick off Siu Seung Tze and Lui Mor Singh quickly (the two of them were not that much more powerful than Wan Hak Sai) before taking on the Golden Wheel Monk. Somehow, Gwok Jing got away from that strategy and toyed with Siu Seung Tze and Lui Mor Singh for too long. When the Golden Wheel Monk joined the battle in earnest, the three of them were too much even for Gwok Jing to handle.

Not at all.

GJ had the absolute best idea in fact. He had planned to dash south (towards Xiang Yang) and then suddenly escape from the north. This is because the khan would obviously place troops to stop him from going south back to the city. This trick would put the troops off-balance and allow GJ and YG to escape.


That is, if YG wasn't trying to kill GJ too.


If YG hadn't tricked GJ into coming back for him, GJ would've gotten clean away. Not only that, if YG wasn't there, then YG wouldn't have saved Ma Guang Zuo meaning that GJ would've taken out two of the mongols and escaped from the last three.

[TaiHan]

Ah, I was thinking that GJ had become some kind of monster with limitless internal energy. That brings him back down to earth.

Still, exhausting your internal energy during the night and fighting powerful opponents the next day isn't a good way to increase your survival chances.

now that is a scary thought, I usually don't pay attention to the time of the day or anything when reading.
It is crazy that GJ not full could actually take on 3 fighters without begin put at a disadvantage. Must be 9 Yin and its wonder of energy insignificant in the battlefield.