Weapons of choice in JY novels

[Charlieboy]

In JY's world, are skills based on physical weapons inferior to qi-based attacks?

We have great weapons techniques like YG's Heavy Sword, the Dog Beat Stick, Tai Chi Sword, DG9J, the wheels of GLFW and the Wu Family sabre from Flying Fox.

But when push comes to shove, we see that ppl like XF, XZ, JMZ, GJ and the Greats, ZWJ all use palms to settle things whilst Duan Yu uses his qi-based swords. Even the famed wheels of GWM and Yang Guo's Heavy Sword are eventually replaced by the Dragon Elephant palm and the Sad Palm in the finale.

It appears to me that physical weapons only have a limited role when it comes to elite fighters, and the role of weapons seems to play a greater role among the stronger fighters in later novels after HSDS like SPW, Flying Fox and Book and Sword, where maybe the elites of these later eras are much less qi rich.

Guess I see it like the way of DGKB' progression from sword to no-sword, qi being a greater weapon. BTW, does qi have to be released as an attack through a learnt technique like XL18Z or can a XZ just throw out a high 5 and fry someone?

so how do you see the role of weapons in JY novels? Supplements for the weaker qi players, equals to qi-powered guys or superior to any palm? or more likely, not as simple as I make out?

[Ken Cheng]

Some of the most interesting weapons in the Jin Yong canon were those used by the weaker characters. Great Evils # 3 and # 4 from DGSD carried two of the most unique and interesting weapons in wuxia fiction (a big pair of scissors and an iron claw/club, respectively). The Gong Nam 7 Freaks also carried an interesting assortment of weapons that weren't the standard swords/sabres.

As for high-level fighters and weaponry, I think it was said somewhere that at the highest level of martial arts, a hand-held weapon becomes more of a hindrance than an asset. This is probably why Yeung Gor ditched the Heavy Iron Sword and the Golden Wheel Monk ditched his wheels.

[KJ]

Some of the most interesting weapons in the Jin Yong canon were those used by the weaker characters. Great Evils # 3 and # 4 from DGSD carried two of the most unique and interesting weapons in wuxia fiction (a big pair of scissors and an iron claw/club, respectively). The Gong Nam 7 Freaks also carried an interesting assortment of weapons that weren't the standard swords/sabres.

As for high-level fighters and weaponry, I think it was said somewhere that at the highest level of martial arts, a hand-held weapon becomes more of a hindrance than an asset. This is probably why Yeung Gor ditched the Heavy Iron Sword and the Golden Wheel Monk ditched his wheels.

Do we know who said this and how it is considered a hindrance? The top level fighters do seem to prefer palm technique to weapons, but do we know why? Is there a reason given by the experts?

[Ren Wo Xing]

Not necessarily true. In the fight with GLFW, YG was lamenting the fact that he didn't bring his heavy sword.

As you recall, in that last battle, they both initially WERE using weapons; YG with normal sword, and GLFW with his wheels. It wasn't until Yang Guo hit the wheels with his sword (the sword shattering and the wheels flying out of GLFW's hands) that they both resorted to palm and fist attacks.

Consider how in LOCH, Ouyang Feng had his snake-headed staff, and Huang Yaoshi had his jade flute; it seemed that in the truly dangerous situations, they would resort to using them, whereas not the case against weaker opponents. A comment Ouyang Feng made to Guo Jing is especially telling, after Huang Rong tricked him into being captured: "I never carry weapons against those of a lower generation. But I warn you, next time when I come, it will be with my Snake-Headed Staff!" Implying that he's better with it than without.

Or, in the case of Xiao Feng, his XL18Z are awesome indeed, but consider the battle at Jui Xuan Manor. The part where he was doing the most damage the fastest was when he was using the two wheels of the Jui Xuan brothers.

For higher level fighters like the Greats, they don't NEED weapons in order to fight just about anybody else. Nobody could force them to use a weapon save another Great...and if they didn't have a weapon around at the time, chances are considerably high that the other Great wouldn't fight with one either, simply due to needing to maintain their reputation. Carrying them around all the time when they don't need to be used becomes an annoying hindrance. But there's no doubt that they definitely perform better with weapons, than without; if nothing else, because fighting without weapons takes up a lot more internal energy.

[CC]

BTW, does qi have to be released as an attack through a learnt technique like XL18Z or can a XZ just throw out a high 5 and fry someone?

I think with a high enough chi reserve, one can just throw a random *****-slap and kill someone from a distance. Its probably just not the most efficient use.

Consider how Xu Zhu could just flick his finger to throw out chi strong enough to mimic the Flower Massaging Finger Skill. But he was a freak of course.

I think its quite telling that even by the end of ROCH, the Greats (YG and GWM) still were at the stage whereby using weapons gave them a marked advantage. And even JMZ carried a dagger with him!

Possibly, only at the highest peaks of martial arts like 6MSJ does one truly leave weapons behind.

[Zhuge Liang]

Dugu's techniques were advanced but he kept his sword even if he also seemed to possess advanced qi as well.

If a great fighter has the means to use them effectively then i think the Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre are going to be assets.

The Sing Foh Ling's whilst being able to stand up to the HSDS, also had some of the skills inscribed on them.

[letalforever]

hmm i think it depends on the user...like if u train sword art, ure palms won't work like the sword, won't have the range, and the techniques can also be different

[Charlieboy]

I think with a high enough chi reserve, one can just throw a random *****-slap and kill someone from a distance. Its probably just not the most efficient use.

Consider how Xu Zhu could just flick his finger to throw out chi strong enough to mimic the Flower Massaging Finger Skill. But he was a freak of course.

I think its quite telling that even by the end of ROCH, the Greats (YG and GWM) still were at the stage whereby using weapons gave them a marked advantage. And even JMZ carried a dagger with him!

Possibly, only at the highest peaks of martial arts like 6MSJ does one truly leave weapons behind.

I think JMZ carrying a dagger tells us more about his insecurities!

I try to visualise a Heavy Sword YG fighting XF or DY, what can YG do with his sword if XF is firing XL18bombs from 20 feet away or DY zapping at him with his 6msj? All i can see is the Heavy sword possibly deflecting the qi attacks which would help YG conserve qi. But as an all out offensive tool, I can't actually see how it would work out given the distances.

[Homura]

Wonder if weapons are a focusing tool for qi power?

I would expect fighters to let their qi flow into the blade to strengthen the blow. Could this also be used to deflect pure qi attacks? And would it be a more efficient method (qi wise) as opposed to using pure qi to block pure qi?

If it is... I could picture some lightsaber deflection techniques moments...

[Tazzy1972]

lightsabers == 6msj

[kamii]

But in Wuxia can u not just use a blade of grass as a weapon?? Like if u had the qi and the skills?? So u mite not hav to carry a weapon except that a sword would to great damage to a blade of grass!!!

[Guo Xiang]

A weapon is only a media for skills, and for the necessary damage to the opponent. Slapping someone on the face with the edge of the blade is much better than slapping with your hand anyway.

[Homura]

A weapon is only a media for skills, and for the necessary damage to the opponent. Slapping someone on the face with the edge of the blade is much better than slapping with your hand anyway.

How true. Like I always say, you should never hit a man with glasses..... Always use something harder and heavier.