[Candide]

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

I see no reason why that's true.

YX was able to use QKDNY against 4 other people who were about his own level at the same time with only the second stage of QKDNY. Surely ZWJ could do better with stage 7?
.

Yang Xiao used his body as a pipe to direct 2 guys' inner energy against the other 2. He didn't redirect it straight back at them. To do so would require higher inner power. ZWJ could only redirect his opponent's energy against himself if the opponent had significantly lower inner power. It's a lot easier to redirect it to someone else, although doing so would require serious concentration. When Wuji was protecting Zhao Min and ZZR while fending off the Xuanming Elders' attacks, he didn't dare to use QKDNY as he would get fire deviation if he tried.

The Murong's Star Shifting Technique is pretty much the same. MRF didn't dare to redirect DCQ's attacks against himself because his inner power was lower than Ding's. Instead, he redirected Ding's attacks on his disciples.

Furthermore, QKDNY is about redirection and maximal usage of your own abilities and potential. Like Tai Chi, a small nudge is able to move mountains; that is, a small force is used to redirect a huge force against itself

The first sentence is correct but the second isn't. QKDNY's general concept is to firstly initiate your own power to the maximum then "NY", or redirect, it. As one could tell, generating your own power is the crucial first step. QKDNY isn't about weak overcoming strong, soft overcoming hard like Taichi. It's about utilising your inner power to the max and crushing the opponent most efficiently.

[Candide]

Originally Posted by nie_feng2002

ZWJ usually has trouble dealiing with opponents with unortodox skills, he had trouble dealing with Zhiruo's 9Yin claws, the persian's sacred fire tablet skill... the xiaoyao sect's skills are much more deadly and unortodox, ZWJ will have trouble dealing with XZ..

ZWJ had no problem with ZZR's White Bone Claws. He blocked them pretty easily, but he was surprised about how good it (or ZZR) was. In the Shaolin fight, if he didn't hold back his palm attacks, ZZR would be mince meat.

ZWJ only had a few problems with the Persians initially. His real problem was that he didn't want to harm them. He held back all of his lethal moves. If he really wanted to kill them, those Persians would have no chance.

That is the same weakness that both ZWJ and XZ had: they never wanted to harm their opponents (except in some cases, like ZWJ v.s Ah 3 and Ah 2, but he didn't want to kill them there either). However, that same weakness allowed them to learn their skills in the first place.

[alpha666]

Hello,
After seeing so many post of zwj, it seems that many people here are so bias again him. Preception is everything. I think he is far more powerful than most people believed.

I would like to point out that this treat is kind of similar to "XF and ZWJ in

terms of internal force" http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...8&page=2&pp=20

Below are translations extract from http//:www.zhaomin.org/forums
sure its base on 1st edition. My hunch is that the fighting scenes and discreptiond do not change much at all in 2nd and 3rd editions unless someone prove it otherwise.

Judging from what I have read so far in that forum, The ZWJ martial and and skill in the novel version are totally different from the so many discreptions many people had of him here

I would say that he is infact the most powerful that all the greats in LOCH , ROCH also DGSD. His internal energy could be on par with Sweeper monk ?

"Xuan Ming Er Lao were ranked as two of Zhao Ming's most capable top fighters, how could it be possible that even below thirty moves each one of them was already injured? Naturally all of Zhao Ming's subordinates became very amazed and dumbfounded. Even Yang Xiao and Wei YiXiao also became very startled and puzzled, knowing that on that day when he met palms with Xuan Ming Er Lao at Mount WuDang, WuJi's martial arts had remotely not reached his skill of today. Who would have expected that in just a few months, his progress was "shen su" (divinely fast).

Actually when Zhang WuJi was staying for a few months at Mount WuDang, while on one side he was taking care of Yu DaiYan's and Yin LiTing's injuries, on the other side he always diligently consulted with Zhang SanFeng about various martial arts' deep and profound difficult problems. Jiu Yang Shen Gong, Gan Kun Da Nuo Yi, plus WuDang's martial technique Tai Ji Quan Jian, the three of them being gradually and harmoniously unified into one single form, this was nearly already the highest level of Wu-xue (martial science)'s boundary. Yang Xiao and Wei YiXiao pondered about this, and then understood the reason, and couldn't help but to admire Zhang SanFeng's knowldege in martial science, whose ability truly deserved to be called by the four characters: "Shen Bu Ke Ce" (Immeasurably Profound)."

[CC]

[quote=alpha666]Hello,
After seeing so many post of zwj, it seems that many people here are so bias again him. Preception is everything. I think he is far more powerful than most people believed.
QUOTE]

I don't think ZWJ is lousy or that his power is below the Greats. Its just that XZ due to his luck has the benefit of an inner power level which was beyond insane.

[Temujin]

Originally Posted by alpha666

Hello,

Judging from what I have read so far in that forum, The ZWJ martial and and skill in the novel version are totally different from the so many discreptions many people had of him here

I would say that he is infact the most powerful that all the greats in LOCH , ROCH also DGSD. His internal energy could be on par with Sweeper monk ?

"Xuan Ming Er Lao were ranked as two of Zhao Ming's most capable top fighters, how could it be possible that even below thirty moves each one of them was already injured? Naturally all of Zhao Ming's subordinates became very amazed and dumbfounded. Even Yang Xiao and Wei YiXiao also became very startled and puzzled, knowing that on that day when he met palms with Xuan Ming Er Lao at Mount WuDang, WuJi's martial arts had remotely not reached his skill of today. Who would have expected that in just a few months, his progress was "shen su" (divinely fast).

Actually when Zhang WuJi was staying for a few months at Mount WuDang, while on one side he was taking care of Yu DaiYan's and Yin LiTing's injuries, on the other side he always diligently consulted with Zhang SanFeng about various martial arts' deep and profound difficult problems. Jiu Yang Shen Gong, Gan Kun Da Nuo Yi, plus WuDang's martial technique Tai Ji Quan Jian, the three of them being gradually and harmoniously unified into one single form, this was nearly already the highest level of Wu-xue (martial science)'s boundary. Yang Xiao and Wei YiXiao pondered about this, and then understood the reason, and couldn't help but to admire Zhang SanFeng's knowldege in martial science, whose ability truly deserved to be called by the four characters: "Shen Bu Ke Ce" (Immeasurably Profound)."

This quote from HSDS first edition doesn't prove anything and certainly doesn't prove he is even equal with a Great in LOCH/ROCH if they were to tough it out, though we believe he is at least on par.

Sweeper Monk ? Have you read DGSD ? Don't make this ridiculous claim before you read DGSD. And if you did, you may want to re-read meticulously.

If I may compare them, XZ is a walking nuclear bomb capable of blowing up half the earth, while ZWJ is just an earlier stage of an A-bomb capable of blowing up Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[lthlth]

Can someone list some of the incredible things that XZ was able to perform with his inner power?

[qiaofeng]

Originally Posted by alpha666

Hello,
After seeing so many post of zwj, it seems that many people here are so bias again him. Preception is everything. I think he is far more powerful than most people believed.

I would like to point out that this treat is kind of similar to "XF and ZWJ in

terms of internal force" http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...8&page=2&pp=20

Below are translations extract from http//:www.zhaomin.org/forums
sure its base on 1st edition. My hunch is that the fighting scenes and discreptiond do not change much at all in 2nd and 3rd editions unless someone prove it otherwise.

Judging from what I have read so far in that forum, The ZWJ martial and and skill in the novel version are totally different from the so many discreptions many people had of him here

I would say that he is infact the most powerful that all the greats in LOCH , ROCH also DGSD. His internal energy could be on par with Sweeper monk ?

"Xuan Ming Er Lao were ranked as two of Zhao Ming's most capable top fighters, how could it be possible that even below thirty moves each one of them was already injured? Naturally all of Zhao Ming's subordinates became very amazed and dumbfounded. Even Yang Xiao and Wei YiXiao also became very startled and puzzled, knowing that on that day when he met palms with Xuan Ming Er Lao at Mount WuDang, WuJi's martial arts had remotely not reached his skill of today. Who would have expected that in just a few months, his progress was "shen su" (divinely fast).

Actually when Zhang WuJi was staying for a few months at Mount WuDang, while on one side he was taking care of Yu DaiYan's and Yin LiTing's injuries, on the other side he always diligently consulted with Zhang SanFeng about various martial arts' deep and profound difficult problems. Jiu Yang Shen Gong, Gan Kun Da Nuo Yi, plus WuDang's martial technique Tai Ji Quan Jian, the three of them being gradually and harmoniously unified into one single form, this was nearly already the highest level of Wu-xue (martial science)'s boundary. Yang Xiao and Wei YiXiao pondered about this, and then understood the reason, and couldn't help but to admire Zhang SanFeng's knowldege in martial science, whose ability truly deserved to be called by the four characters: "Shen Bu Ke Ce" (Immeasurably Profound)."

those comments are based on the context of hsds. there arent many good fighters there. the only ones that are close to a great level are zhang sanfeng, yang jie jie and zhang wuji. the others are miles away. n the dgsd fighters are even more powerful. sweeper monk KOed 2 top fighters in 1 move. n any of those 2 can easily waste zhang wuji. ill bet my left nut that sweeps can ko zhang wuji in 1 move with his little pinky finger and zhang wuji cant do anything except freeze in terror. u can even throw in zhang sanfeng n yang jiejie into the equation and the result would be the same. and no, im not joking, hes that godly

[Black Night Sea]

Below are translations extract from http//:www.zhaomin.org/forums

I don’t know the rules of this site, but wouldn’t you have to get permission to use somebody else’s translation esp. for usage on other websites?

His internal energy could be on par with Sweeper monk ?

If they ever get to lock horns, it would be an insult on Sweeper himself if he bothers to even lift a finger on an unworthy opponent.

Jiu Yang Shen Gong, Gan Kun Da Nuo Yi, plus WuDang's martial technique Tai Ji Quan Jian, the three of them being gradually and harmoniously unified into one single form,

This is not the same thing as when GJ pulled out ideas that matches his Taoist doctrine, to aid his XL 18 Palms. QKDNY (a weird Persian art) and Taichi Fist (soft counter firm martial art and philosophy) don’t come together very well.

this was nearly already the highest level of Wu-xue (martial science)'s boundary.

Not mentioned in 2nd edition.

[superboy]

Originally Posted by alpha666

Hello,
After seeing so many post of zwj, it seems that many people here are so bias again him. Preception is everything. I think he is far more powerful than most people believed.

I would like to point out that this treat is kind of similar to "XF and ZWJ in

terms of internal force" http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...8&page=2&pp=20

Below are translations extract from http//:www.zhaomin.org/forums
sure its base on 1st edition. My hunch is that the fighting scenes and discreptiond do not change much at all in 2nd and 3rd editions unless someone prove it otherwise.

Judging from what I have read so far in that forum, The ZWJ martial and and skill in the novel version are totally different from the so many discreptions many people had of him here

I would say that he is infact the most powerful that all the greats in LOCH , ROCH also DGSD. His internal energy could be on par with Sweeper monk ?

"Xuan Ming Er Lao were ranked as two of Zhao Ming's most capable top fighters, how could it be possible that even below thirty moves each one of them was already injured? Naturally all of Zhao Ming's subordinates became very amazed and dumbfounded. Even Yang Xiao and Wei YiXiao also became very startled and puzzled, knowing that on that day when he met palms with Xuan Ming Er Lao at Mount WuDang, WuJi's martial arts had remotely not reached his skill of today. Who would have expected that in just a few months, his progress was "shen su" (divinely fast).

Actually when Zhang WuJi was staying for a few months at Mount WuDang, while on one side he was taking care of Yu DaiYan's and Yin LiTing's injuries, on the other side he always diligently consulted with Zhang SanFeng about various martial arts' deep and profound difficult problems. Jiu Yang Shen Gong, Gan Kun Da Nuo Yi, plus WuDang's martial technique Tai Ji Quan Jian, the three of them being gradually and harmoniously unified into one single form, this was nearly already the highest level of Wu-xue (martial science)'s boundary. Yang Xiao and Wei YiXiao pondered about this, and then understood the reason, and couldn't help but to admire Zhang SanFeng's knowldege in martial science, whose ability truly deserved to be called by the four characters: "Shen Bu Ke Ce" (Immeasurably Profound)."

ZWJ's internal energy is very powerful, however, it still won't be much a match against XZ's. On ZWJ being more powerful then the Greats of ROCH, i just don't know. I do think that his internal energy is probably considerably more robust. Yet, i'm not sure if he can beat the Greats with many decades of battle experiences and geniuses of their era. YG's and GJ's internal energy can probably be considered on par with ZWJ's. Even Z3F had doubts that he may not had reach GJ's level yet, though that part is deleted in the 3rd edition due to corrections in the orders of events. The Greats of DGSD is probably not below does of ROCH. ZWJ probably won't be able to devastate XF with just power since he too has a considerablly large amount of sheer power and battle instinct. Yet, Sweeper Monk finished his dad and MRF's, which is relatively his level with one move. One of them are more capabe then two yuan ming elders, so ZWJ cannot come close to compare to this all powerful being of JY's world.

[Faustus1982]

This thread is going OT from XuZhu vs ZWJ to Sweeper vs ZWJ....

[CC]

People who doubt sweeper monks ability should just go read the damn chapters 41-43 or shut up.

[Han Solo]

CC, r u planning to finish up the shaolin battle translations?

[CC]

Originally Posted by Han Solo

CC, r u planning to finish up the shaolin battle translations?

Will take a lot of time. Too much talking (MRF/MRB, abbot admitting crimes, XZ's mummy wailing away etc etc) from the point I left off till sweeper appears.

[superboy]

Originally Posted by CC

Will take a lot of time. Too much talking (MRF/MRB, abbot admitting crimes, XZ's mummy wailing away etc etc) from the point I left off till sweeper appears.

Awww...., but those are like some of the most interesting parts in the book. The big revelation.

[CC]

Originally Posted by superboy

Awww...., but does are like some of the most interesting parts in the book. The big revelation.

There is also the 3rd edition coming. I'll wait for after it is published.

[miette]

Originally Posted by CC

People who doubt sweeper monks ability should just go read the damn chapters 41-43 or shut up.

Or watch the TV serials. Actually those adaptations made the monk's abilities more god-like than Jin Yong did in the novel. Both TVB's and CCTV's Sweeper Monks remained unharmed after being struck by XF. In the novel, Sweeper (at least) broke some ribs and spat blood, which was more credible, after all, how could one be at the receiving end of XF's powerful blow and not sustain any injury?

OT: I wonder what happened to Sweeper after that day? No mention was made of the monk after XF took DY away to recuperate in his late foster parents' farmhouse. Perhaps he died shortly after that? After all, he was wounded, and for a man of his age, broken ribs and throwing up blood are a serious affair, however highly skilled he might be.

[PJ]

In DGSD 1982, Sweeper Monk was killed by Murong Bo and Jiumozhi, in a fair martial arts combat.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally Posted by PJ

In DGSD 1982, Sweeper Monk was killed by Murong Bo and Jiumozhi, in a fair martial arts combat.

That was the point where an otherwise entertaining, well-made, and fairly accurate adaptation jumped the shark, made a sharp left, and disappeared into TVB fantasy lala-land.

[miette]

Originally Posted by PJ

In DGSD 1982, Sweeper Monk was killed by Murong Bo and Jiumozhi, in a fair martial arts combat.

Yes, I forgot about this version. Quite hilarious to watch for someone who has read the novel. One of the comics published in HK gave a similar fate to Sweeper Monk too, something about him being struck in the back in a sneak attack by MRB or MRF.

[Whsie]

If you were to tell me to choose who has higher internal energy, it's likely Xu Zhu. But if you say long term wise, ZWJ because his 9 Yang improves fast and according to Jin Yong himself at 3rd point of view, said 9 Yang is strongest inner kung fu. However, Xu Zhu cheated with 70 years of internal energy given to him. However, if you say ZWJ and Xu Zhu's kung fu, I say ZWJ's kung fu is stronger, but Xu Zhu gets it all back with his enormous internal energy. To be honest, according to original HSDS, ZWJ reached level of GJ and his master at age 20. So...., his internal energy shouldn't be a million mile away, but I'll give it 2 levels behind. QKDLY may be ZWJ's secret weapon. At 7th level, I really think he can hold off Xu Zhu because remember. When he fought the 3 monks (and if you add the 3 internal energy together, I think it'll be higher than ZWJ) he was able to hold it off, so why not Xu Zhu? And, I remember reading though ZWJ wasn't able to combine the 3 top level kung fu in one, but I remember that at times, ZWJ was able to mix them together. I remember once reading ZWJ was fighting and used Tai Chi but he mixed Tai Chi with 9 Yang, increasing the power dramtically. I also once remember somewhere ZWJ mixing Tai Chi and QKDLY.