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Thread: Do you think there is life after death? And if so, can we prove it?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkcser View Post
    I'm actually quite surprised by this. Where is it commonly held that Christians refers only to Protestants and Catholics are excluded from this group? Is this the typical Roman Catholic definition? Is this the typical Protestant definition?

    It's pretty comical if this is the new definition of Christians. Maybe you should update Wikipedia on this definition since it seems to be incomplete since it makes no mention of Christians being synonymous with Protestants. My guess is most theological definitions also do not equate Christians with Protestants either.

    Oddly enough... tapping the global consciousness... the first definition of "Christian" is not too surprisingly from Wikipedia. Not that Wiki is a particularly reliable source of information but a fairly common one.
    The terms are as well known to Christians and Catholics as Kobe is to basketball fans. Sometimes people do use Christians to refer to Catholics as well but this is exceedingly rare nowadays. Both do fall under the umbrella of Christianity but it's common knowledge to refer to Christians as Protestants and Catholics as Catholics. This is very common knowledge and almost like slang you can say. The term Christian is usually used in North America and UK where the majority are protestants.

    Aside from the term "Christian", there's also many differences between the two.

    - Christians believe that you do not need to go through a priest to communicate with God
    - Catholics have confessions
    - Catholics emphasize a lot on tradition and sainthood
    - Christians don't have the notion of saint-hood and are not as traditional as Catholics.
    - Christians are more "modern" and have things like "Christian Rockbands" and "Christian newsletter and magazines".
    - Catholics believe in holy relics and a more ritualistic
    - The Christian Protestant message is save by grace
    - The Catholic message is save by grace AND works
    - Christians only believe what is in the Bible. Catholics on the other hand have their own philosophical notions such as Purgatory.
    - Catholics have special reverence to Mary, Mother of God. Christians don't have such reverence.
    Last edited by Ghaleon; 06-16-09 at 06:10 PM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BearBearNweather View Post
    I have the same thought too - if there's reincarnation, where do the additional population come from?

    If there's heaven or hell, will it be overpopulated with souls by now?

    If there're reincarnation and retribution in the next life, why does it happen in the next life when no one can even remotely recall his/her previous life? So what's the purpose of retribution?

    I don't know if I do believe in life after death, part of me do but the logical part of me will always wonder. Personally I hope there's no reincarnation.
    Whenever has reincarnation means creation? It just means your soul gets 'recycled'. For example, aside from the present me, I have a previous life and will have a next life, and all are of the SAME SOUL.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guo Xiang View Post
    Whenever has reincarnation means creation? It just means your soul gets 'recycled'. For example, aside from the present me, I have a previous life and will have a next life, and all are of the SAME SOUL.
    i think bearbear was saying that where do the extra souls comes from?

    Population has been increasing. So even if the same souls get reincarnated into the next generation, how do you account for the extra souls being created since population has always been increasing.

    At one point in time China probably had only population of one million. Now China has population in the billions. So doesn't that mean some souls have been created even if we assume reincarnation theory?

    BTW, Buddhism believes that in the ultimate reality there is no soul or ego even though they believe in reincarnation. Extra tidbit

  4. #24
    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkcser View Post
    I didn't realize Catholics were no longer Christians. When did this come about? Does the pope know about this? What about purgatory? What about the day of reckoning?
    I was being specific at addressing the protestants and non-protestants. It's as simple as that. It's probably your misinterpretation that triggers those unnecessary queries.

    I can agree to what Ghaleon posted here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon
    You should do some research beforehand. Christians are usually applied towards Protestants while Catholics are applied towards Catholics. Purgatory is a catholic concept.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    i think bearbear was saying that where do the extra souls comes from?

    Population has been increasing. So even if the same souls get reincarnated into the next generation, how do you account for the extra souls being created since population has always been increasing.

    At one point in time China probably had only population of one million. Now China has population in the billions. So doesn't that mean some souls have been created even if we assume reincarnation theory?

    BTW, Buddhism believes that in the ultimate reality there is no soul or ego even though they believe in reincarnation. Extra tidbit
    Must be from all the pandas and tigers the Chinese has killed. Ironic eh?

    I don't think life has to have a meaning. Things happen, you don't have to find a reason to explain why it happened, but how it happened. And why does life equate to no meaning if there is no 'life' after life? Isn't living itself meaningful? If you don't find meaning in 80 years, what makes you think it will be meaningful in the next 80 or eternity for that matter?



    People try to explain things they don't understand using supernatural as the source. Why can't we just accept we don't know why instead of making untested claims. Just because some people who survived near death experiences saw a tunnel of light doesn't equate to there being a heaven. Just because some people experience flashes of past memory doesn't mean those people are waiting for them behind St Peter's gate.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    i'm just not comfortable with the notion that there is nothing after death.

    Let me ask you, why does there have to be no afterlife? huh? Just because some people survived near death experiences doesn't mean they haven't experienced anything spiritual. That's the argument in the reverse.

    Why does everything have to be scientifical? Why can't people have their own faith? Why does everything have to be proven in order to believe it?

    You're too leaning against the other extreme. I'm not saying i believe in near-death experiences. But at least i'm open to the idea. You're already close-minded to it. You're a Scully. That's what you are The other extreme is a Mulder. I think a balance between Scully and Mulder is the best.
    Last edited by Ghaleon; 06-16-09 at 11:50 PM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    i'm just not comfortable with the notion that there is nothing after death.

    Let me ask you, why does there have to be no afterlife? huh? Just because some people survived near death experiences doesn't mean they haven't experienced anything spiritual. That's the argument in the reverse.

    Why does everything have to be scientifical? Why can't people have their own faith? Why does everything have to be proven in order to believe it?

    You're too leaning against the other extreme. I'm not saying i believe in near-death experiences. But at least i'm open to the idea. You're already close-minded to it. You're a Scully. That's what you are The other extreme is a Mulder. I think a balance between Scully and Mulder is the best.
    Kudos, Ghaleon! You pwned with this! I agree.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member xJadedx's Avatar
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    I'm not going to argue religion extensively on the Internet - it will go nowhere. At any rate though, whether or not someone believes or does not believe is up to them, and it's perfectly fine as long as they do so for good reasons, i.e. don't just be an atheist because you read a Richard Dawkins book or don't just be religious because your parents are too and it's in your family. The issue of believing (or not believing) should be up to the individual to explore and find out on their own. I don't think anyone should believe or not believe without truly thinking about it for themselves.

    As to the topic - the answer is no one knows. If we know about what happens after death, then the whole science versus religion debate would not exist. You can't scientifically test for what happens after death (other than the physical form of decomposing, of course). It really is in the end, a matter of "faith." You may believe that something happens, and you may believe that nothing happens. But as of now, no one (scientists or religious people who are still alive) can know for sure.

    But does it really matter? I'm religious, so part of me believes that something happens after death. But what I believe happens is constantly changing, because I am exploring my faith and the meaning of my beliefs.

    But the most important thing is, no matter what happens after death - you are alive now, and should make your life as meaningful to you as possible. For me, I just want to live my life up to my own expectations and hope that I won't have any regrets when I die. Who knows, maybe that itself is "heaven."
    Last edited by xJadedx; 06-17-09 at 12:54 AM.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    i think bearbear was saying that where do the extra souls comes from?

    Population has been increasing. So even if the same souls get reincarnated into the next generation, how do you account for the extra souls being created since population has always been increasing.

    At one point in time China probably had only population of one million. Now China has population in the billions. So doesn't that mean some souls have been created even if we assume reincarnation theory?

    BTW, Buddhism believes that in the ultimate reality there is no soul or ego even though they believe in reincarnation. Extra tidbit
    I see.

    Then how about this? The extras may have come from the animals we've killed so far in life, including the ones we drove into extinction.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    i'm just not comfortable with the notion that there is nothing after death.

    Let me ask you, why does there have to be no afterlife? huh? Just because some people survived near death experiences doesn't mean they haven't experienced anything spiritual. That's the argument in the reverse.

    Why does everything have to be scientifical? Why can't people have their own faith? Why does everything have to be proven in order to believe it?

    You're too leaning against the other extreme. I'm not saying i believe in near-death experiences. But at least i'm open to the idea. You're already close-minded to it. You're a Scully. That's what you are The other extreme is a Mulder. I think a balance between Scully and Mulder is the best.
    You are not comfortable with the notion so you seek meaning and comfort from something that can't be proved.

    I never said there was no afterlife, I said I don't know rather than saying there isn't or is as oppose to some posters on this forum, by flawed 'evidence'. Ditto with near-death experiences. So make false assumptions and attack a strawman. You are not qualified to judge how open minded I am based on one post that you misinterpreted into not agreeing with you even though the second part was addressed to you.

    What is close minded when it comes to faith and religion? Does announcing yourself to one religion without adequate exposure to other religions count as close minded? Does dismissing scientific (not scientological) facts without trying to understand them, and prefering thousand year old message, untested, written by men count as close minded? You suggest sit somewhere in the middle is best, which itself is arbitrary point, does that make that person lacking enough faith as well as being indecisive in the face of evidence?

    I am not the one uncomfortable defending my opinions with science. It's those who get lost trying to defend their theories with the bible and have to bring out their trump card FAITH. I am just saying there is nothing wrong with not knowing something. Why must I be so scientific? Because science isn't afraid of being proven wrong and have its hypothesis tested.
    Last edited by yittz; 06-17-09 at 12:49 AM.
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  11. #31
    Senior Member remember_Cedric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yittz View Post
    I am not the one uncomfortable defending my opinions with science. It's those who get lost trying to defend their theories with the bible and have to bring out their trump card FAITH. I am just saying there is nothing wrong with not knowing something. Why must I be so scientific? Because science isn't afraid of being proven wrong and have its hypothesis tested.
    Any further elaboration? I wouldn't call Faith, a trump card when people had given it a chance (i.e keeping an openheart), to believe. The meaning of Faith, in dictionary itself, is clear, isn't it?
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  12. #32
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    to be really honest, i'm freaked out if NOTHING HAPPENS after you die.

    However I believe that there is a higher purpose in existence. When you die, something does happen. That's what i personally believe. Because if it isn't so, then life would be pretty MEANINGLESS.
    Live a good life while you're alive, and you won't have to worry about death.
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    Senior Member rosely's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkcser View Post
    I can only assume that this post meant to be sarcastic, and is poking fun at the idea of believing something simply because there's a written/filmed account of it... without any need for empirical evidence.

    btw: Did you notice that in all cases of ascension in SG, the body of the deceased/ascended is converted into a glowing energy being much like in SW? Oma Desala's quote regarding letting go was really nice "The universe is so vast, and we are so small, the only thing we can truly ever control, is whether we are good, or evil." I was disappointed that DJ didn't ascend for the third time...
    Well, pardon my french, I forgot to put ARTS at the end of my previous posts LOL. Anyway, what do you expect we are gonna talk here. It will be and endless argument. Coz there is nobody who died and return from the afterlife to tell us how is things there.

    The afterlife is something that need faith to believe. Well I believe in it a 100 percent based on the energy cannot be destroyed fact, even without that fact I still believe in it. Because life is something so precious, so big and meaningful to just ended like that when we died.

    Anybody who don't believe it, I guess, I don't even care what you believe LOL. It's your own life. If you really want a scientific experiment before believing in something that even cannot be explained with scientific experiment LOL, be my guest, jump over building, cut your carotid artery and see for yourself if there is life after death. And if you manage to force-ghost yourself back to the world of the living, well welcome back and tell us all about it.

    For me, there are still lots of things I want to do, need to balance all the bad things I do with good things so that I'll be prepared when my numbers is up, so I'm gonna skip those experiment, thank you very much.

    I was disappointed that DJ didn't ascend for the third time...
    Well if DJ ascended, he will be stucked with the prime directive of never interfere with the world of the living, means he will be out from the story and only have recurring roles, which I think is not what the writers intended for him .
    Last edited by rosely; 06-17-09 at 07:37 AM.

  14. #34
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remember_Cedric View Post
    Any further elaboration? I wouldn't call Faith, a trump card when people had given it a chance (i.e keeping an openheart), to believe. The meaning of Faith, in dictionary itself, is clear, isn't it?
    How is it not a trump card? You can't 'win' against someone who brings out the faith arguement. What's the point of presenting logic and facts and evidence, when the other person reply with you haven't given faith enough chance, you don't have an 'open heart' to believe, your mind is too rigid etc. etc. How do you know if other people haven't given it enough chance? What equates to sufficient chance? Is it only sufficient when one end up believing in that religion? Do you have enough faith or 'open heartedness' to give science a go, or other religions for that matter?

    What makes you think people who argue with scientific facts lack faith? Such a vague term. I am using it in the context of believing without question rather than only believe when accompanied by overwhelming evidence.
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    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosely View Post
    The afterlife is something that need faith to believe. Well I believe in it a 100 percent based on the energy cannot be destroyed fact, even without that fact I still believe in it. Because life is something so precious, so big and meaningful to just ended like that when we died.
    The soul is energy? Wait, the soul exists? Yeah the debate never ends...

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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    The soul is energy? Wait, the soul exists? Yeah the debate never ends...
    Good question. I think that if you treat the "soul" as some invisible "form", that the soul can be regarded as energy. From a scientific viewpoint, energy cannot be destroyed. In other words, this "energy" is flowing around. I think I can accept to this point. The question is that how/why this energy finds you for "rebirth". Can someone provide some thoughts on this?

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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosely View Post
    Well, pardon my french, I forgot to put ARTS at the end of my previous posts LOL. Anyway, what do you expect we are gonna talk here. It will be and endless argument. Coz there is nobody who died and return from the afterlife to tell us how is things there.

    The afterlife is something that need faith to believe. Well I believe in it a 100 percent based on the energy cannot be destroyed fact, even without that fact I still believe in it. Because life is something so precious, so big and meaningful to just ended like that when we died.

    Anybody who don't believe it, I guess, I don't even care what you believe LOL. It's your own life. If you really want a scientific experiment before believing in something that even cannot be explained with scientific experiment LOL, be my guest, jump over building, cut your carotid artery and see for yourself if there is life after death. And if you manage to force-ghost yourself back to the world of the living, well welcome back and tell us all about it.

    For me, there are still lots of things I want to do, need to balance all the bad things I do with good things so that I'll be prepared when my numbers is up, so I'm gonna skip those experiment, thank you very much.



    Well if DJ ascended, he will be stucked with the prime directive of never interfere with the world of the living, means he will be out from the story and only have recurring roles, which I think is not what the writers intended for him .
    See faith arguement *yawn*

    Soul is energy? Where did you get that from? If energy cannot be destroyed, explain the creation of souls, so energy can only be created but not destroyed? This 'supports' reincarnation, but not other forms of afterlife. You originally called your arguement scientific, yet proceeds to say science can't prove nor disprove afterlife after a tiny squeeze.

    Lol why would someone who don't believe in afterlife kill themselves in the hope to prove themeselves wrong? This defies logic. Ditto with the fact that you claim it can't be scientifically proven. They are not the ones feeling uncomfortable and insecure about 'lack of meaning' to life.

    You guys knew this will lead to a religious debate, if you strayed away from the original reincarnation talk.
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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej View Post
    Good question. I think that if you treat the "soul" as some invisible "form", that the soul can be regarded as energy. From a scientific viewpoint, energy cannot be destroyed. In other words, this "energy" is flowing around. I think I can accept to this point. The question is that how/why this energy finds you for "rebirth". Can someone provide some thoughts on this?
    First lets not assume soul isn't an outdated term with a vague definition. Second how does soul equate to energy. Third how do you know 'soul energy' isn't converted into some other form of energy upon death that cannot be converted back to 'soul energy' upon death. Fourth what's the relevance even if it is converted to another form of soul energy death?
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  19. #39
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej View Post
    Good question. I think that if you treat the "soul" as some invisible "form", that the soul can be regarded as energy. From a scientific viewpoint, energy cannot be destroyed. In other words, this "energy" is flowing around. I think I can accept to this point. The question is that how/why this energy finds you for "rebirth". Can someone provide some thoughts on this?
    The very existence of soul is questionable at best, the notion of soul being energy even more so.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Philosophically, i'm more in line with Descartes' Soul and Body duality. Soul is everything that makes up you - your consciousness, your emotions, your personality, your aura, your free will , etc..

    The closest science has to analyzing free will is neuroplasticity. In neuroplasticity your brain re-wires itself after you will something. So it's not a cause-and-effect relationship but rather a willed action. Science knows that the 'soul' is an icky area. so most scientists don't even bother with the soul and only believe in the body.

    But how the body generates consciousness and how we feel moody when we listen to sad songs is stilll a mystery. There are some esoteric studies that tries to find the frequency of sadness or the frequency of joy within the heart.

    Check this out -

    The Frequency of Healing (Solfeggio frequency 396 Hz )

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppeN8gmk-JU

    Music has been used for healing since the dawn of mankind. How music resonates within us is a huge area that has yet to be explored or understood properly.

    Back to the soul and body issue, Descartes believes that the third eye is actually the seat of free will. Even more esoteric, some people believe in chakras. Locating in a body along the spine are energy centers called chakras. The third eye is but one of the chakras. It is believed each of the chakras contribute to aspects of our soul. For example the heart chakra is the energy center responsible for our emotional states of being while the third eye chakra is the energy center of the soul responsible for higher consciousness and free will.

    P.S. I wrote a paper on Descartes and his Body and Soul duality for philosophy class. That's how i got all this esoteric info
    Last edited by Ghaleon; 06-17-09 at 02:07 PM.

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