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Thread: remorse and leniency

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    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    Default remorse and leniency

    Should someone who shows remorse receive some leniency for his crime? I am for quick and cheap capital punishment (hanging, shooting squad, beheading, whatever doesn’t waste taxpayer money feeding him and going to appeals court), so I don’t really care whether the guy feels remorse afterwards or not—I mean, are the people they kill any less dead just cuz he is “sorry” he killed them? If there were mitigating circumstances surrounding the crime, I would favor leniency, but for someone like this guy in the story who shot his parents in cold blood, I don’t think remorse means anything.

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    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090616/...r_s_wife_slain

    ELYRIA, Ohio – A northeast Ohio teen who shot and killed his mother and wounded his minister father was sentenced Tuesday to 23 years in prison for crimes rooted in his obsession with video games with violent themes. Daniel Petric, 17, who could have gotten life without parole, shook his head slightly, sniffled and held back tears but sat down without saying a word when given the chance by Lorain County Common Pleas Judge James Burge.

    Petric's eyes were red from crying when his father, Mark Petric, asked the judge to be lenient and said his son regrets killing his mother and reminds his father often that he is glad his father survived.

    As for his mother, Daniel Petric's frequent comment is "Dad, I miss mom. I miss mom," the father said.

    "He still does not understand why he did something so terrible," Mark Petric told the judge.

    The prosecution disputed the contention that Petric had shown remorse for the crimes and asked for the maximum sentence.

    Besides his father, Petric's sister, grandfather and other family members attended the hearing in Elyria, about 20 miles southwest of Cleveland. Some wiped away tears.

    Petric was convicted of shooting his parents in October 2007 after they took the game "Halo 3" away from him. The judge, who heard the case without a jury, said at the time of the verdict that the teen was so obsessed over a video game that he may have believed that, like the characters in the game, death wasn't real.

    The defense claimed his age and addiction to the game made him less responsible.

    In the video game "Halo 3," players shoot alien monsters that have taken over the Earth.

    Mark Petric, speaking for the family, said a sentence short of life without parole would give his son a second chance.

    "He has severe regret and remorse and guilt," said Mark Petric, who has visited his son weekly in jail and speaks with him by phone several times a week.

    "I see the pain and guilt in his eyes," he said as his son, his head bowed, cried quietly.

    Mark Petric, who has forgiven his son, said he had followed his son's request that his father's congregation be told about his sorrow over the crimes. "He is sorry for causing everyone so much terrible pain," said the father, a minister at New Life Assembly of God in Wellington.

    The defense attorney, James M. Kersey, said Daniel Petric's obsession with video games was so rampant that anyone who got in his way was at risk. He appealed for leniency.

    Anthony Cillo, an assistant Lorain County attorney, said Daniel Petric deserved the maximum sentence and already had received a break because he was under 18 years old at the time of the crimes and ineligible for the death penalty.

    At the trial, Mark Petric testified that his son came into the room and asked his parents: "Would you guys close your eyes? I have a surprise for you."

    The father testified that he expected a pleasant surprise. Then his head went numb from a gunshot.

    His wife, Susan, 43, died of a gunshot wound to the head.

    The prosecution said Daniel Petric then tried to make the shootings look like a murder and attempted suicide. He shoved the gun into his father's hand and said, "Hey Dad, here's your gun. Take it," Mark Petric testified.
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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiang bao View Post
    Should someone who shows remorse receive some leniency for his crime?
    No, absolutely not because most criminals will use this as as excuse for leniency. The punishment should fit the crime with no mercy for anyone.

    I am for quick and cheap capital punishment (hanging, shooting squad, beheading, whatever doesn’t waste taxpayer money feeding him and going to appeals court), so I don’t really care whether the guy feels remorse afterwards or not—I mean, are the people they kill any less dead just cuz he is “sorry” he killed them?
    Agree with you except for the beheading part. I am all for capital punishment such as Hanging, Shooting Squad, Electric Chair, Lethal Injection, ect... but not Beheading. Modern society should not practice it, it belongs to the ancient time.

    If there were mitigating circumstances surrounding the crime, I would favor leniency
    Crime is a crime. Criminals should get the same punishment for the similar crime they committed regardless of reasons behind it.

    but for someone like this guy in the story who shot his parents in cold blood, I don’t think remorse means anything.
    That guy was 17 when he committed the crime so he deserves life sentence without perole. If he was 18 or older, then he deserves death penalty.

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    In the case of Daniel Petric:
    1. 无话可形容地不孝
    2. (As my parents would say) 早知道如此,就该当他还小时,将他(如蚂蚁地)捏死!
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    Senior Member Cesare's Avatar
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    I believe in second chances - so definitely no death penalty.
    There are murderers that deserve a bullet in the head and there are murderers who IMHO don't.
    But who am I (or any of us) - to draw the line between a murder and real, real, REAL bad murder.
    As Gandalf once said...
    Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.
    If someone earns their second chance, I'd give it to them. If that counts as leniency, then I guess I'm lenient.

    As for Daniel Petric... I really don't know... I dare not guess if he's an idiot, a madman or a psychopath. In any case - I'd lock him up for now (and think twice before releasing him).
    别想把黑暗放在我的面前
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    It took me a second to realize that you're talking about the "Halo Killer". You really need to use the media sensational name! Otherwise, deranged teen kills parent isn't all that interesting... this seems to be the current version of Rock and Roll made me do it. Horror Movies made me do it. Heck, maybe even people who shoot up abortion clinics will say that the Bible made them do it. Personally I'm holding out for a Harry Potter made me do it.

    In terms of violent content being the cause I posit that Halo isn't violent enough. You shoot the aliens and they fall down. Maybe they're just knocked out or sleeping. Nothing specifically indicates that they're dead or even really hurt. He needs a more realistic game or at least a more gore-heavy one like Fallout. In Fallout you shoot someone, and there's a good chance they'll be dismembered in a bloody rain of giblets. That's a pretty good indication that shooting people will hurt them, something that a 17 year old can readily grasp.

    I apologize for the tangent...
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    You: I survive somehow
    HK47: As do I. It is our lot in life I suppose master. Shall we find something to kill to cheer ourselves up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cesare View Post
    I believe in second chances - so definitely no death penalty.
    There are murderers that deserve a bullet in the head and there are murderers who IMHO don't.
    But who am I (or any of us) - to draw the line between a murder and real, real, REAL bad murder.
    As Gandalf once said...

    If someone earns their second chance, I'd give it to them. If that counts as leniency, then I guess I'm lenient.

    As for Daniel Petric... I really don't know... I dare not guess if he's an idiot, a madman or a psychopath. In any case - I'd lock him up for now (and think twice before releasing him).
    Second chance??
    There is no second chance for the victims. Where is justice for the victims if the murderers get the second chance? In addition, people who commit same type of crime deserve the same type of penalty. Where is fairness if the the justice system gives second chance for some murderers while not for the others? Criminals should get the penalty that is based on the justice system at the time. No mercy for anyone.

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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    in some countries you can get the death penalty for non-murder crimes like robbery. So you guys accept the death penalty for that?

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    Senior Member Cesare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    No mercy for anyone.
    You sound like Vhailor from Planescape: Torment...
    I never keep him in my party when I play the game...
    别想把黑暗放在我的面前
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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cesare View Post
    You sound like Vhailor from Planescape: Torment...
    I never keep him in my party when I play the game...
    that was the most imaginative computer RPG game i ever played haha.

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    Senior Member Cesare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    that was the most imaginative computer RPG game i ever played haha.
    ...and I happen to be one of those poor sods who believe that there are things that can "change the nature of a man" (yes, even for the better)...;-)

    Regarding themes of guilt and remorse, crime and punishment or damnation and redemption, the game is actually pretty much on topic here, I reckon...
    别想把黑暗放在我的面前
    太阳已经生长在我心底
    不再有封闭的畏惧
    奔腾的灵魂飞上天际
    太阳 我在这里

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    Senior Member xJadedx's Avatar
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    I'm with Cesare on this.

    The truth is - nothing you do to the murderer will change what already happened - the victim is still dead. The supposed justice by means of capital punishment in the end to me, seems like nothing more than basic primal desire to want to shed blood for something lost, I guess the eye for an eye concept.
    I sometimes find it ironic that those who heavily condemn the murderers for their brutal crimes of taking a life have no problem dealing out the "death" penalty themselves. For me, I don't think that any human being (or panel of human beings) has the right to deal out life or death to another human being, even if that person is the lowliest scum on earth.
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    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    It's not really a matter of avenging the victim, but it's a matter of practicality. Why waste money feeding a murderer or waste time with appeals and stuff?

    It's ridiculous that it takes many yrs to put an inmate on death road to death.
    What are you fighting for? Just mix them into pissing beef balls, stupid.
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    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
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    Hm...this is a very hard topic to debate... I would support the death penalty depending on the circumstances and situation. IN this case, I am not too sure... I think I would sound like a cruel person if I said that Petric deserved the death penalty. But then again, he did NOT just kill anyone. He killed his own mother!! The one that gave life to him, took care of him and sacrificed sooo much for him. For all that she did for him, she just gets a shot to the head?? I can't believe that... How can he live with himself after killing his own mother??? If it were me, I would not even want to live on the face of this earth anymore...I really hate and despise unfilial kids...
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    Senior Member xJadedx's Avatar
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    I guess the fate of a human life just never seemed as a "practicality" issue for me.
    Like I said before in older threads, I'm against capital punishment for various reasons. So if I have to continue to pay taxes so that we won't have to introduce the capital punishment in Canada simply for "practicality" reasons, then I'll keep paying those taxes.
    Because I'm somewhere in between,
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    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
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    I also want to say that about criminals that claim to show remorse and leniency, they can just be putting on an act so that people will give them some mercy. But who really knows deep down if they are truly sorry for what they did?? A lot of criminals are good at acting...
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    Senior Member Ghaleon's Avatar
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    i agree with jaded. it's basically an eye for an eye. there are larger issues here like moral issues. how can tax money issues outweigh the moral issues?

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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiang bao View Post
    It's not really a matter of avenging the victim, but it's a matter of practicality. Why waste money feeding a murderer or waste time with appeals and stuff?

    It's ridiculous that it takes many yrs to put an inmate on death road to death.
    As much as I don't like paying tax for them, it's not about practicality. A lot of people don't contribute to society, do we cull them too?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    in some countries you can get the death penalty for non-murder crimes like robbery. So you guys accept the death penalty for that?
    Yes. I support death penalty for such case. In Singapore, death penalty is automatically given to drug dealers and I think it's good. I simply have no sympathy for criminals, period. Society is so much better without those trash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded WenEr View Post
    I'm with Cesare on this.

    The truth is - nothing you do to the murderer will change what already happened - the victim is still dead. The supposed justice by means of capital punishment in the end to me, seems like nothing more than basic primal desire to want to shed blood for something lost, I guess the eye for an eye concept.
    That is the price the murderers should pay for their crimes. If you don't punish the murderers, where is justice for the victims? Society would be in chaos if criminals don't get the harsh punishment for the crime they committed. Do you want to live in lawless society where criminals like sudan where criminals can do what ever they want?

    I sometimes find it ironic that those who heavily condemn the murderers for their brutal crimes of taking a life have no problem dealing out the "death" penalty themselves. For me, I don't think that any human being (or panel of human beings) has the right to deal out life or death to another human being, even if that person is the lowliest scum on earth.
    These people care about the lives of the innocent people, not the lives of murderers. If you got it your way, we will go back to the dark age.

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