The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber 2018

[piyemingo]

Lol, the scene with Zhu Yuanzhang came out of nowhere. Someone mentioned that the cannibalism scene with young ZWJ was cut out so.. here it is?

[wkeej]

Lol, the scene with Zhu Yuanzhang came out of nowhere. Someone mentioned that the cannibalism scene with young ZWJ was cut out so.. here it is?

I think the producer wants the viewer to know that zwj is acquainted with zyz when the former is young. Actually, there is no need. They should make zyz to be more "macho" and general-like. Afterall, he is going to be the Emperor soon.

Cannibalism scene? there is a scene whereby the people wanted to eat zwj and ybh but they were saved.

To think about it, these scenes are not necessary unless the idea is to show people's suffering and hence a movement against the Mongols.

[piyemingo]

ZM looks pretty shaken by the fact that she almost lost her life to Miejue.
She may not be as confident as she appears in front of other people. In fact this is one of those moments where she realizes that she might have miscalculated and overstepped the board.

[aniking_8]

Yang xiao looks like that tvb variety show trio actor, but he really shows his disappointment and letdown. This version, he isn't a cold or flirty pervert, but just someone that have too much pride and the only one that understand him left him out of guilt making him depress his entire life now that his daughter left him too. At the end, if there's an epilogue the entire ming cult will be under fire judging how horrible historical emperor zhu is. I say he's worst than the last Mongol emperor even if there's class system or racism. Anyway, having dejavu and got recommend this from zhejiang. I feel like I'd seen some thing similar in hunan variety. Tvb 96 dgsd cast with hsds zzr 1994. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=STd1TG9WDK0

[aniking_8]

ZM looks pretty shaken by the fact that she almost lost her life to Miejue.
She may not be as confident as she appears in front of other people. In fact this is one of those moments where she realizes that she might have miscalculated and overstepped the board.

I thought her acting makes up for her looks. However, I feel like her real person is like that judging from clips of ashes and other series where she played supporting roles. She doesn't look as good here in her costume design. Anyway, bambi, zzr seems a bit more versatile in other series.

[yanfeng]

Ok, I'm a fan of the trailers but the latest one for Ep 35 is actually a little shocking....

click to show/hide spoilers

ZM declares she's ready to die for WJ and that she was willing to side with WJ against the Mongolian empire. Although to be fair this was under the circumstances that ZM was sure they were all going to die, so she was expressing her gratitude that it would be alongside WJ that she died.

I'm not sure how to take this at all. It seems ... abrupt? OOC? Maybe the stress of

click to show/hide spoilers

a life/death situation

getting to her??

I sincerely hope this is not the start of this sinking into a melodrama! Yikes!

[wkeej]

The slap by Miejue on zzr is a bit artificial.

Again, after all these years, I still find it a bit hard to understand. The need to obey her teacher in bringing glory to Emei bought such a drastic change in zzr's behaviour. Did Guoxiang have this ambition too?

[yanfeng]

Trailer for Ep 36

Ok, this is a real tease... first we get

click to show/hide spoilers

an almost kiss!

but then we get a

click to show/hide spoilers

hysterical ZM over not going back to the mainland??!

[Face palm]

And things were going so well with the cute and flirty!

Gaaaah writers of 1994 HSDS, don't ruin another version for us please!

[aniking_8]

Judging from trailer and opening, zm's dad and zwj gramp will have a different ending. Kabby hui's XZ doesn't stood up that much even with her contacts, but this version made her ascension more dramatic and the sense of threats is exemplify. We get to see different sides of the same coin from sects to Mongol. I see they're trying to fresh out the characters more, but it's becoming less about martial arts with more monologue and character interactions about stress of leading a cult and upbringing/working for Mongol yuan dynasty government .https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H1Ay2a78eQ0

[wkeej]

Ok, I'm a fan of the trailers but the latest one for Ep 35 is actually a little shocking....

click to show/hide spoilers

ZM declares she's ready to die for WJ and that she was willing to side with WJ against the Mongolian empire. Although to be fair this was under the circumstances that ZM was sure they were all going to die, so she was expressing her gratitude that it would be alongside WJ that she died.

I think what she meant is to kill those corrupted Mongol officers and bad soldiers. As what she told zwj at the inn.

Great to learn that zwj can do something useful when he retire. He noted that he can be a doctor. I have not thought of that.

[yanfeng]

Hmmmm... I don't think she meant just the bad soldiers, but we'll see more next Friday!

Oh and yes, I agree at some point the drama may get to be a little more focused on the politics which I don't object to (most versions tackle it well and fuse it into the story itself), but the 1994 version somehow took the last 5-10 episodes entirely to be about Zhu Yuan Zhang with very little about characters we cared about so it was jarring and awkward that it hardly linked up to the rest of the story.

[yanfeng]

Urg... from the C-fans speculation this is going to turn into a Qiong Yao novel! [Bangs head against wall] Noooooo!

But the one good point is that they only have about a dozen or so episodes left after next week and tons of plot to get through, so if we're lucky they wouldn't be able to make this into a drawn-out romance tragic novel.

(I feel a little sad for the good actors and actresses and the hard work they put into this!)

Not that I have anything against melo's, they are entertaining in their own right (I've seen a fair share!) but this is HSDS! I like my angst, but I even more like my characters cool and somewhat rational and mostly consistent... which tends NOT to happen in a melo.

[The Mighty Bob]

Took me a bit longer than I said it would but I wrote down some of my thoughts regarding last week's episodes i.e. Battle of GMD:

Before I thought Zhu'er was by far the cutest girl. But now that XZ appears, holy smokes she is insanely cute. The coloured contact lens look a little weird but it's whatever and I understand what they are trying to do with it. My issue with XZ is a lack of development between her and ZWJ when they get trapped in the dungeon. The whole sequence feels rushed and it feels like there's no connection/chemistry between the two. What previous adapations did better with this was when they made XZ "ugly" or crippled which leads to a much stronger plotline because XZ realised ZWJ is willing to help her regardless of her looks. It makes their connection way more complex and it also gave a nice hark back to ZWJ's mum's phrase of "the prettier the lady, the more deceitful she is". It's a shame because this XZ is soooooooooo cute.

I know they develop Yang Buhui later on so I'm gonna keep it short and write more on my review next week. I think she looks a bit like Gyuri from Kara.

Moving onto Cheng Kun, I feel like this adapation's CK lacks a certain something. I'm not sure what it is entirely, maybe it's that mad look in his eye or maybe it was with how he was written. I think they made him younger and less evil by changing the sequence of events where before he takes in XX and breeds XX into a 4 protector and then plans the killing of his family. Whereas here, XX just magically becomes a protector and he does the XX family kiling act spontaenously. Just lacks a bit of that meglomaniac I want revenge at all costs from before which I thought helped his character. This issue is further emphasised when they stumble upon Yang DingTian + his wife's skeleton corpse. A better CK would not have let his lover's skeleton rot away with YDT and I thought that was a really big mistake from the writers.

Something that I actually really liked is how they used the Mongols to spread propoganda about Ming cult being evil which then develops the hatred in the 6 cults. Thought that bit of writing was sharp and I liked how it then allows ZWJ to make Ming cult more righteous in the eyes of JiangHu later on when they learn more about Ming Cult's actual values and stuff

I liked how they actually made it into a battle with lots of peons battling and dying. Actually feels like there's an actual battle instead of the 1vs1s later on which is what the past adapations did. Not entirely sure how Ming cult spawns a whole new group of peons after the battle when apparently most of them died trying to protect the main bit but whatever that's minor.

Interesting that they explicitly show ZZR deciding not to kill anyone and only hit the random peons. Especially with the whole Ding MinJun realising it and the rivalry between them. I think it's a nice setup to the eventual dark-ZZR when she goes on a killing spree so we can see the contrast between the two and how much MieJue ****s her up.

They made the eagle king actually not useless. Felt like past adapations they had him with a bunch of swagger and arrogance but nothing to back it up cause everyone beats up on him but here he feels strong and acts like a hero. Really liked how they gave him screentime to show he ain't a pleb.

Thought it was as bit weird that Yang Xiao recognised 9 Yang instead of Qian Kun Da Nuo Yi (however you spell it) because he studies the latter himself, and I thought 9 Yang was kinda a hidden thing between Shaolin, Wudang and Guo Xiang. Also a missed opportunity from the writer's to let the viewers know how strong ZWJ's is compared to YX with the whole "Oh shit he's level 7 and I spent 10 years getting to level 2".

As for the first few fights, it was surprisingly epic. I thought the pillar stuff was dumb af, I forgot how evil Shaolin are in this story and slow mo yada yada you heard it before. The whole ZWJ getting a branch from a cherry blossom to demean the other 4 fighters felt a bit out of character because he's trying to ease the tension not rile them up. Other than that it was good entertainment.

The fight with E'Mei was dumb af tho, the whole dancing on the ceiling and then the rest of E'Mei saying **** it we'll 20 v 1 him in the middle of ZWJ and MieJue's fight was stupid af. Really didn't like that. But the big problem imo, was ZZR. I'm a soft touch, I cry at anything, but I did not cry when ZZR stabbed MJ. This is one of the iconic scenes, it's absolutely crucial they get this right because it's the first step to ZZR's downfall but I just didn't feel the emotion or sadness. I didn't cry for this scene. I felt like the director even tried to make the scene more emotional by throwing a cutback to young ZZR taking care of ZWJ but it didn't move me at all. I think the problem was the stiff acting of ZZR though and she looks really weird. Like there's something off about her here. Really really disappointed that I couldn't cry at this scene.

Side note: it was funny af when Eagle king was bigging up his sword and then Yitian just breaks it instantly.

And then it's the scene with Wudang where I did tear up a little when ZWJ admits who he is. I quite liked the added screentime between Song QingShu and his dad though. Past adapations really missed the familial connection between the two but you could see the development of Song 1's disappointment from the earlier flashback of SQS bullying ZZR as a kid up till now. The whole daddy issues of SQS leading to his downfall is done very well here. A lot of good setup in this series imo. Shame the whole battle ends kinda abruptly though, missed a mark in terms of emotional value here imo.

The introduction of ZM was weird imo. Like did she honestly set it up so her Mongol archers shot at and killed other mongols? Seemed off. As for ZM, I guess it's better I save it till next week when we get a bigger chunk of ZM screentime. First impressions, girl is pretty so that's a good start for me.

Sorry for spam, tl;dr I want to cry more, series adds good background and character development. I'm a fan of pretty ladies. Hit me up with any discussion.

[piyemingo]

Yeah! It's turning into melodrama. You know what modern melodrama is like? First the guy hurts the girl, then something happens and it's the girl's turn to hurt the girl (2x the angst!). Gosh we only have 20+ ep left so I don't want the remaining of it to be just another angsty romantic show.

[aniking_8]

The last few episodes arent as enjoyable after the exciting brightness peak episodes, which was a surprise. the camera angles, transition cuts/edits, and wudang battle wasn't that spectacular despite giving the #3 more personality and screen time. It was kind of a waste. They skipped a few martial art conversation between yang xiao, z3f, and possible xiexun judging from previews. XM elders didn't age at all in the twenty years. The young casts get an upgrade via mustache, but no wrinkle or white hair.
On the side note, My interpretation and feeling for the series changes after each adaption and as I grew older. Back when I was a kid, I always thought being a powerful leader is cool and all, but with added context of the story and more experience in life. It's stressful, so I can see why most protagonist rather live free and travel without baggage liability and fear of retaliation from vengeful foe. It's the mindset that matters. Would you seek revenge if you have the power or learn to forgive? It have a lot to do with personal pride, insecurity, frustration, what you owe, etc and superstition/brainwashing when comes to cult/religion that bring people back to "normal". Whatever it makes you feel at ease without harming other, but definitely not for people that wants thrill and excitement.

[aniking_8]

Speaking of melodrama, the official trailers and next week previews shows more hate from xiexun against Mongol princess as well as losses of possibly family members from the hero and heroine in upcoming war, so I can see the director and scriptwriter is aiming for more romance stuff to fill up the time. I enjoyed zzr childhood parts to give context to why zwj is always so lient and forgiving towards her because he owes her his life and the life of her dad. However, the extra bits with love triangle, idk if they can execute it good. XZ is Definitely very forgettable here compares to yang buhui, but looks like they'll give a her more depressing farewell. I think the main trio acting is fine so far. It's passing compares to 09.

[piyemingo]

Anyway, Vietnam facebook throws out another theory. ZM dad and ZWJ grandpa died together at the end in a battle. ZM left ZWJ and returned to Mongolia. ZWJ resigned from Ming sect and went on a search for ZM. He threw her handkerchief and it magically flew to where she is. The end.

[piyemingo]

The last few episodes arent as enjoyable after the exciting brightness peak episodes, which was a surprise. the camera angles, transition cuts/edits, and wudang battle wasn't that spectacular despite giving the #3 more personality and screen time. It was kind of a waste. They skipped a few martial art conversation between yang xiao, z3f, and possible xiexun judging from previews. XM elders didn't age at all in the twenty years. The young casts get an upgrade via mustache, but no wrinkle or white hair.
On the side note, My interpretation and feeling for the series changes after each adaption and as I grew older. Back when I was a kid, I always thought being a powerful leader is cool and all, but with added context of the story and more experience in life. It's stressful, so I can see why most protagonist rather live free and travel without baggage liability and fear of retaliation from vengeful foe. It's the mindset that matters. Would you seek revenge if you have the power or learn to forgive? It have a lot to do with personal pride, insecurity, frustration, what you owe, etc and superstition/brainwashing when comes to cult/religion that bring people back to "normal". Whatever it makes you feel at ease without harming other, but definitely not for people that wants thrill and excitement.

Agree with you. I also find myself starting to relate the story to my experiences in life, although the story is all ancient and jianghu setting. For ZWJ it was like, "lol this is gonna get you kicked out in real life".

However, in retrospect, when Jin Yong wrote all these stories, they were a blast because it helped people at that time escape from the real life and re-introduced moral values that were thought to be lost to "modern" (at that time) life. I guess, to keep up with that tradition from Jin Yong, one has the right to expect our main hero to be a little idealistic and yet still manage to lead and inspire others.

Sunmary of my views towards Jin Yong stories is like: (young) omg this is so cool --> (a little older) lol this is so idealistic and unreal --> (much older) start to appreciate the moral characters in there and how hard it is to remain like them.

P/S: love this forum. You all bring in meaningful discussions and fun tidbits. Let'a enjoy our journey together til last ep! Be it epic and melodramatic, we can all complain together

[yanfeng]

@The Mighty Bob, I think you hit on one thing I do like about the writing- they don't gloss over the killings from Ming Sect, it's clear that ZWJ struggles mightily when (sequentially) Ming Sect members come to him saying how they killed innocent cart drivers and or even fellow-sect-members as means to get at the Mongols.

Collateral damage is not trivial just because the characters are "non-player characters". This makes for a much greater Ming Sect (by modern standards) and it's heartening.

Re: Melo. A large majority of c-fans are also upset at the melo, half of them complaining that this is wuxia not primarily a love story, the other half (who I agree with) annoyed at what they did to ZM's character and the plot to ensure more angst.

A funny minority just complain that ZWJ is so wooden through the passionate declarations... of the boat scene comments go:
"I was really anxious watching the boat scene. Just hug her already?! Gods what does it take?? She's all over the ground and you're just standing there?! For f---'s sake hug her!"

Ah well, since we can't do anything about the script I guess our options are not watch or watch and try to find some humor in it all?

[piyemingo]

Someone wrote this...

Yinli - big wife
* First one that ZWJ officially proposed. Even though they did not have official wedding and marriage certification, when he thought she was dead, her tombstone was written as, "Beloved wife Yin Li. Made by husband ZWJ".

ZZR - second wife
* Only one with proper wedding with ZWJ. Although it was interrupted by ZM, everyone attending agrees that the formalities just need to be completed afterwards.

ZM - secret girlfriend
* No wedding according to ZWJ's promise to ZZR. Of course, no wedding doesn't mean no children, said ZWJ. Thus, it fulfills the definition of "xiao san".

XZ - secretary
* Whole-heartedly contend with just being alongside ZWJ, helping him in daily matters. Don't even ask for children or wedding. Almost like secretary-boss relationship. Of course any boss may some day find it tiring to deal with all the wives and girlfriend, and turn to secretary instead. Doesn't rule out the risk that the wives will band together and take revenge on the secretary.
Hence, XZ's decision to resign and switch company is wise.