Hypothetical: Hui Juk tests 6 Yeung Divine Palms, Hong Lung 28 Palms, and MGGPs.

[Banh Mi]

I have a huge problem with this. I'm *always* wary of any one wuxia character becoming too powerful (which is why I'm not too particularly fond of the Janitor Monk, Dook Goo Kau Bai, Gu Long's Siu Yiu Hou, and increasingly now, Hui Juk), especially if they're ahead of an already well-established Greats/Elite class. We already know how powerful that Greats/Elites are. Having characters three times more powerful than that class is already stretching credibility uncomfortably (to me), but when it gets to five times or higher...

This is one of the things I like. Even in real life, you have great people, and you have people that make them look like little girls. I can understand if your qualms are about empirical physical feats like speed and strength and someone is multiple times better. But I'm completely cool with characters that everything combined, skill and experience leaves everyone in the dust in something hard to measure like a fight.

[Ken Cheng]

This is one of the things I like. Even in real life, you have great people, and you have people that make them look like little girls. I can understand if your qualms are about empirical physical feats like speed and strength and someone is multiple times better. But I'm completely cool with characters that everything combined, skill and experience leaves everyone in the dust in something hard to measure like a fight.

I don't like it at all...because the authors lead us to believe that the Greats/Elites are the absolute creme de creme of wulin...lead us to believe that for the course of an entire story, giving us multiple pieces of proof to verify that Great/Elite status. Then, OUT OF NOWHERE come these phantom characters (yeah, I'm looking at you Janitor Monk and Dook Goo Kau Bai) and suddenly, it's "J/K! Those Greats/Elites aren't all that, even though I've given you TONS of evidence that they are! These new guys I just pulled out of my a$$ are the *REAL* bee's knees!"

Well thanks ALOT, JY and GL...looks like I just admired those so-called "Greats/Elites" for nothing, huh?

I *hate* it when they do that!

[person135]

I prefer if their powers (janitor monk or DGQB) were left unknown. A full display like SM did was kinda annoying.

[flamer]

I'm quite comforable with SM actually. It's good to know there are still unknown forces to keep Elites/Greats in check so they won't do whatever they wish, knowing they are already the best.

It's not like SM appeared in and out of DGSD regularly to fix up Elites.

[Ken Cheng]

I'm quite comforable with SM actually. It's good to know there are still unknown forces to keep Elites/Greats in check so they won't do whatever they wish, knowing they are already the best.

They already have each other for checks and balances. Why do they need SuperMonk to come in and do it for them? It reeks of narrative desperation. Having multiple Greats, some "good," others "evil," is adequate to maintain the balance of power. Why arbitrarily stick a deus ex machina to do it? What happens if the deus ex machina goes bad?

[Banh Mi]

I don't like it at all...because the authors lead us to believe that the Greats/Elites are the absolute creme de creme of wulin...lead us to believe that for the course of an entire story, giving us multiple pieces of proof to verify that Great/Elite status. Then, OUT OF NOWHERE come these phantom characters (yeah, I'm looking at you Janitor Monk and Dook Goo Kau Bai) and suddenly, it's "J/K! Those Greats/Elites aren't all that, even though I've given you TONS of evidence that they are! These new guys I just pulled out of my a$$ are the *REAL* bee's knees!"

Well thanks ALOT, JY and GL...looks like I just admired those so-called "Greats/Elites" for nothing, huh?

I *hate* it when they do that!

I see it as the greats are the pinnacle of above average people. They're heavily involved in the story, and they're the guys that you know the protagonist will be equal to by the end of the story.

Then there's the prodigy one above all. Serves more as a plot device, to let you know the world is a really big place. They're not that involved in the story, and you know next to nothing about them, more of a novelty to add colour and flavour to this universe they've created.
I can understand how they are sort of a deus ex machina, but I think they add alot of flavour to the story.

And also, the greats are always meddling. The supreme guys, are enlightened. They're the ones that don't really care for worldly things that much. Dugu reached his sword perfection, had no opponents and like a Musashi, went into seclusion. Sweeper monk, keeps out of people's way but intervenes and enlighten 2 geezers who've been duking it out for decades.

Eastern martial arts has always referred to enlightenment as the goal of martial arts, but it would be a sour wulin if the likes of OYF was enlightenment.

[person135]

i just don't like someone being stronger than the greats, kinda like ken. do we really need a super duper guy to watch over everything? the greats are already legendary class. we don't need someone even more mythical than them. it undermines everything the greats have done. im fine with DGQB, mainly because he is mostly a legend and doesn't appear, while SM has to appear and intervene in their affairs and stuff.

[CC]

Thats one of the main plot points and the gist of DGSD!

You can be super powerful and incredibly talented and such a martial genius that even if DGKB came forward in time and FCY was born 300 years earlier such that both would be extremely pleased to smell your farts, you are still subject to the Samsara and would continue to suffer until you achieve true enlightenment.

You can be a 'Great', but without enlightenment, you are a weak nothing in the big scope of the universe.

[timeless]

A 50 ft LDA, Xu Zhu being immune to a Great level fighter's attacks. He was completely immune; he didn't even feel any of the blows. I believe he was kicked like 10-20 times and he only realized afterwards that he'd been hit.

I don't know how you want to view the inner strength of Qiu Chuji compared to Huang Yaoshi, but the difference between Xu Zhu is greater than that. A palm exchange between Xuanci and Xian Feng left Xiao Feng gasping. I don't think people realize how powerful someone must be for direct hard hitting blows to just bounce off them. The person you're bouncing must be in the realm of 5-10x weaker than you for it to happen.We've seen people at around 30% being able to exchange palm clashes and leaving the stronger person a bit winded; letting it bounce off you unknowingly is on a much higher level.

Where did you said that part where Xf was gasping was to be found?

I do however recall that part when Sm got kaput and spewed blood when he tried to talk... so much for trying to show off who is the big brother of Shaolin. I believe the person who did that to Sm is just as capable of producing the same kind of damage on Xz.

[timeless]

One man's 'enlightenment' is still another man's 'illusion'. An 'enlightened state' of mind reached is still purposed on an Egoistic need to be free, which is a state of mind to escape from the realities of what is and what not is. Man is still end of the day just man, a creature whose days are like grass, here today gone tomorrow.

Since CC's started on religion, i just thought i chip in a bit of philosophising myself.

[person135]

yep. @ timeless, xf was the one who injured sm.

dgqb > sm dgqb can inflict external injuries like no other in JY's stories. no matter how much internal you have, you have, you can't prevent yourself dying if you get your head cut off or something

[Dennis Chen]

Man is energy.

[PJ]

Where did you said that part where Xf was gasping was to be found?

It was actually Reverend Xuanji, not Xuanci, who made Xiao Feng feel short of breath. Here is the quote from novel (chapter 18):

玄寂喝道：“吃我一掌！”双掌自外向里转了个圆圈，缓缓向乔峰推了过来。
他掌力未到，乔峰已感胸口呼吸不畅，顷刻之间，玄寂的掌力如怒潮般汹涌而至。

[person135]

has XZ demonstrated not getting hurt from anyone else other than JMZ? It could just be that XZ's XY martial arts negated JMZ's XY based martial arts. like xwxg vs xwxg

[PJ]

has XZ demonstrated not getting hurt from anyone else other than JMZ? It could just be that XZ's XY martial arts negated JMZ's XY based martial arts. like xwxg vs xwxg

SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan, LOTUS FAIRY Cui Luhua.

[timeless]

Thats one of the main plot points and the gist of DGSD!

You can be super powerful and incredibly talented and such a martial genius that even if DGKB came forward in time and FCY was born 300 years earlier such that both would be extremely pleased to smell your farts, you are still subject to the Samsara and would continue to suffer until you achieve true enlightenment.

You can be a 'Great', but without enlightenment, you are a weak nothing in the big scope of the universe.

Are you aware that Samsara is a concept invented long after the Buddha's death to add to his teachings that are in turn based on the Hindu-based ideas of reincarnation/rebirth/karma as are the western Asian religious ideas that eventually shaped the creation of a Buddhist cosmology that comprises of related beings such as Devas and Asuras that had its partial Indo-Aryanic influences from the likes that includes Zoroastrian inspirations.

[timeless]

It was actually Reverend Xuanji, not Xuanci, who made Xiao Feng feel short of breath. Here is the quote from novel (chapter 18):

玄寂喝道：“吃我一掌！”双掌自外向里转了个圆圈，缓缓向乔峰推了过来。
他掌力未到，乔峰已感胸口呼吸不畅，顷刻之间，玄寂的掌力如怒潮般汹涌而至。

To be more specific, it was the onslaught of Xj's palm power before reaching that affected Xf's propensity to breathe normally- telling us just how powerful Xj's palm skills was- but the fight thereafter is a different matter.

[timeless]

has XZ demonstrated not getting hurt from anyone else other than JMZ? It could just be that XZ's XY martial arts negated JMZ's XY based martial arts. like xwxg vs xwxg

If i may add further that Xz could be consider a true master of Xwxg at least on orthodox mastery unlike Jmz's imperfect know-how of the skill.

[PJ]

Are you aware that Samsara is a concept invented long after the Buddha's death to add to his teachings that are in turn based on the Hindu-based ideas of reincarnation/rebirth/karma as are the western Asian religious ideas that eventually shaped the creation of a Buddhist cosmology that comprises of related beings such as Devas and Asuras that had its partial Indo-Aryanic influences from the likes that includes Zoroastrian inspirations.

We are indeed aware of such a thing that you just said which is not the same thing that I said yesterday as can be found in another thread whose title I forget but which doesn't matter at this point because I'm just writing more words to pad the paragraph so that it can match the paragraph of your size which by the way was only one sentence which I could not help but notice considering the size of that thing and that is exactly why I am writing this big and useless post.

[CC]

Are you aware that Samsara is a concept invented long after the Buddha's death to add to his teachings that are in turn based on the Hindu-based ideas of reincarnation/rebirth/karma as are the western Asian religious ideas that eventually shaped the creation of a Buddhist cosmology that comprises of related beings such as Devas and Asuras that had its partial Indo-Aryanic influences from the likes that includes Zoroastrian inspirations.

I might be aware just like Jin Yong was when he thought up the original plot of Demi Gods and Semi Devils back when he was pondering the plot but before he actually wrote it which is of course before it was published but what you said in no way affects the meaning behind the novel because it is still about how powerful beings do not avoid the Samsara by dint of their abilities and powers alone but in any case I do think that the Buddha would be aware of the Vedic teachings since those do date back to before his time but of course such knowledge of his has no bearing on the fact I was trying to point out.