President Barack Obama - his performance thus far

[jadebunny9]

You and 'lav' have a 'severe list to the left' and are in danger of capsizing and all we'll be able to see is your rear ends bobbing in the water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5qKYfqALE&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMInSfanqg

I'll step aside and let TC have fun with you two, and even he will realize that debating with commited zealots is pointless.

I doubt anyone can be more committed and zealous as TC when it comes to debates. You have to admit that he never backs down.

I am all for a better healthcare system. Half of the doctors here don't deserve all that money for doing squat. I don't care if taxes are higher, since that will at least be better than losing 2 arms and a leg after going to the ER once because the bills are just so high.

[jiang bao]

That's good JamesG. Thanks for proving facts don't mean jack to rightwingers.

[JamesG]

That's good JamesG. Thanks for proving facts don't mean jack to rightwingers.

??? I guess I should have known you wouldn't 'get' the message in the 2nd video at all, did you? It's hard to miss, but you managed to do it. Hopeless, pig-headedly hopeless!

[levendis d'orange]

??? I guess I should have known you wouldn't 'get' the message in the 2nd video at all, did you? It's hard to miss, but you managed to do it. Hopeless, pig-headedly hopeless!

JamesG,

4 years ago, Congress was still in the control of the Republicans. Thanks for linking to those clueless rightwing hackjob of cut and paste video, but I guess jiang bao was right that facts don't mean jack to rightwingers like you.

If you want to have a discussion, then by all means respond to the facts and arguments presented; but if you just want to have a soap box to vent your radical rightwing resentment, then there are plenty of street corners one could do that from.

[JamesG]

JamesG,

4 years ago, Congress was still in the control of the Republicans. Thanks for linking to those clueless rightwing hackjob of cut and paste video, but I guess jiang bao was right that facts don't mean jack to rightwingers like you..

The Democrats held the House 236 to 199 and blocked any attempts to reign in their beloved Fannie and Freddie We all know what followed, don't we....and the 'sinkhole' keeps getting bigger.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=azObP8_4deuI

If you want to have a discussion, then by all means respond to the facts and arguments presented; but if you just want to have a soap box to vent your radical rightwing resentment, then there are plenty of street corners one could do that from.

You can keep your Democrat economics...you'll be paying for it for a very long time.

[Trien Chieu]

The Democrats held the House 236 to 199 and blocked any attempts to reign in their beloved Fannie and Freddie We all know what followed, don't we....and the 'sinkhole' keeps getting bigger.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=azObP8_4deuI

You can keep your Democrat economics...you'll be paying for it for a very long time.

They will pay the price in the long run for Obama popular policy of free handout. Awhile ago, I watched the documentary called IOUSA and it was scary. Big change such as higher taxes, lower spending, higher retirement age, lower benefit, ect... is needed sooner or later. Living beyond the means can't be last forever.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.O.U.S.A.

[levendis d'orange]

The Democrats held the House 236 to 199 and blocked any attempts to reign in their beloved Fannie and Freddie We all know what followed, don't we....and the 'sinkhole' keeps getting bigger.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=azObP8_4deuI



You can keep your Democrat economics...you'll be paying for it for a very long time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...lections,_2004
Elections to the United States House of Representatives for the 109th Congress were held on November 2, 2004. The House of Representatives has 435 seats. It coincided with the reelection of President George W. Bush. As a consequence of this election, the 109th Congress began composed of 232 Republicans, 201 Democrats, one independent (who caucuses with the Democrats), and one vacancy (Democratic Representative Bob Matsui won reelection, but died on January 1, 2005, just three days before the beginning of the 109th Congress.). The Republicans thereby built up their House majority by 3 seats (gaining 8 but losing 5).

You are about as clueless and uninformed as the nonsense youtube videos you regurgitated.

I wonder if you whined this much the last time a White Democrat was in the White House and give America several years of prosperity.

[levendis d'orange]

They will pay the price in the long run for Obama popular policy of free handout. Awhile ago, I watched the documentary called IOUSA and it was scary. Big change such as higher taxes, lower spending, higher retirement age, lower benefit, ect... is needed sooner or later. Living beyond the means can't be last forever.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.O.U.S.A.

It'll be just like Canada. So why do you hate Canada so much, TrienChieu? I think you should move to Somalia if you dislike Canada that much.

[jiang bao]

Given TC's attitude toward black people, doubtful he'd ever set foot on Africa.

As for JamesG... well, I can only guess he thought 2008 was four years ago.

[Trien Chieu]

It'll be just like Canada. So why do you hate Canada so much, TrienChieu? I think you should move to Somalia if you dislike Canada that much.

I love Canada. When did I say "I hate Canada"? Perhap you should move to Somalia.

Given TC's attitude toward black people, doubtful he'd ever set foot on Africa.

As for JamesG... well, I can only guess he thought 2008 was four years ago.

jiang bao, you should either join the NAACP and follow people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and/or move to africa yourself if you think black people = saint.

[JamesG]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...lections,_2004
Elections to the United States House of Representatives for the 109th Congress were held on November 2, 2004. The House of Representatives has 435 seats. It coincided with the reelection of President George W. Bush. As a consequence of this election, the 109th Congress began composed of 232 Republicans, 201 Democrats, one independent (who caucuses with the Democrats), and one vacancy (Democratic Representative Bob Matsui won reelection, but died on January 1, 2005, just three days before the beginning of the 109th Congress.). The Republicans thereby built up their House majority by 3 seats (gaining 8 but losing 5).

You are about as clueless and uninformed as the nonsense youtube videos you regurgitated.

Poor baby......the cause and effect part of the video was beyond your minds scope and all you got was Nancy P's butt-covering harangue of the Financial Industry. [Look at what they did and not at what we did].
The House seat numbers I used were wrong [I re-checked the site I got them from and they had them reversed].

I wonder if you whined this much the last time a White Democrat was in the White House and give America several years of prosperity.

Couldn't care less who is in powere [ unless they are TFIs[hey are dangerous]. I distrust them all. Once you've seen a few dozen of them, over the years, telling outright lies to protect their seats, you'll distrust them too. Until then, enjoy your comfy little dream world.

[Trien Chieu]

I also don’t like the cash-for-clunkers program.

That is the popular policy of free handout.

[jiang bao]

I love Canada. When did I say "I hate Canada"? Perhap you should move to Somalia.

The point is lost on you that what orange is saying is that the system in place in your home country is the very kind of system you are against.

jiang bao, you should either join the NAACP and follow people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and/or move to africa yourself if you think black people = saint.

I don't think black people are saints. I've mentioned several times in previous threads in which I've argued with you that I've been victimized by black criminals a number of times when I was younger, and I grew up in the ghetto. I still live in an neighborhood with a lot of blacks. I've seen the ugly and the good. I just don't hold a racist attitude towards them, unlike you.

I am glad the rightwing has you and JamesG to represent it. Perfect example of what the rightwing is about, both of ya.

[jiang bao]

That is the popular policy of free handout.

The point of the cash for clunkers program is to 1) stimulate consumer demand, 2) lessen energy usage, and 3) help the struggling auto industry.

In my opinion, it is not a wise program because it is only a temporary fix, and changes nothing in the long run. The spending should be done on alternative energy programs. By the time oil shortage becomes a real problem, it'd be too late to build the renewable energy infrastructure. Of course, all you see is a "handout" program.

I could go on to explain why government subsidies are necessary to guide corporate and consumer behavior, but it'll be lost on you, so I won't waste my time. Just try to understand that there's always reason behind government programs.

[JamesG]

The point of the cash for clunkers program is to 1) stimulate consumer demand, 2) lessen energy usage, and 3) help the struggling auto industry.

In my opinion, it is not a wise program because it is only a temporary fix, and changes nothing in the long run. The spending should be done on alternative energy programs. By the time oil shortage becomes a real problem, it'd be too late to build the renewable energy infrastructure. Of course, all you see is a "handout" program.

I could go on to explain why government subsidies are necessary to guide corporate and consumer behavior, but it'll be lost on you, so I won't waste my time. Just try to understand that there's always reason behind government programs.

The job of the government is to serve the people, not to mold the people to suit a political agenda. The far left wants to get the people hooked on government hand-outs [guidance according to you] and therefore subservient to the government. Get em hooked on subsidies and you can control them. They've done it with minorities for decades. The 'Nanny state' is your worst enemy. Do you really want to end up like the UK?

[jiang bao]

The job of the government is to serve the people, not to mold the people to suit a political agenda. The far left wants to get the people hooked on government hand-outs [guidance according to you] and therefore subservient to the government. Get em hooked on subsidies and you can control them. They've done it with minorities for decades. The 'Nanny state' is your worst enemy. Do you really want to end up like the UK?

For god's sake, the "far left" isn't the only party that uses subsidies. When left on their own, corporations will always maximize self interest at the expense of public good. That's human nature. The Adam Smith invisible hand idea is idiotic, just as the communist idea of utopian selfless society is idiotic too. Some degree of government intervention is required.

The list that orange gave of past "bailouts" that occurred during both Democratic and Republican presidencies, which you as usual pooed pooed as "smoke and mirrors," is to show you that government has always intervened when the so-called market can't get the work done.

If the Fed and the Treasury didn't intervene last fall, the magnitude of the failures of banks like Citigroup and Bank of America would have been disastrous. No one really knows how much in credit default swaps would have become due on the failure of major corporations. Whatever the amount, it would have crippled the whole economy.

[JamesG]

For god's sake, the "far left" isn't the only party that uses subsidies. When left on their own, corporations will always maximize self interest at the expense of public good. That's human nature. The Adam Smith invisible hand idea is idiotic, just as the communist idea of utopian selfless society is idiotic too. Some degree of government intervention is required.

The list that orange gave of past "bailouts" that occurred during both Democratic and Republican presidencies, which you as usual pooed pooed as "smoke and mirrors," is to show you that government has always intervened when the so-called market can't get the work done.

If the Fed and the Treasury didn't intervene last fall, the magnitude of the failures of banks like Citigroup and Bank of America would have been disastrous. No one really knows how much in credit default swaps would have become due on the failure of major corporations. Whatever the amount, it would have crippled the whole economy.

If the Government agencies like the Fed, the Treasury and the SEC hadn't had their heads up their butts and their mouths shut, most of the problems could have been prevented. Makes you wonder if political interference was involved.

[jiang bao]

If the Government agencies like the Fed, the Treasury and the SEC hadn't had their heads up their butts and their mouths shut, most of the problems could have been prevented. Makes you wonder if political interference was involved.

So now you say there wasn't ENOUGH government intervention?

There’s no denying that the government f’ed up. Politicians/regulators fell asleep at the wheel (possibly with encouragement from lobbyists and special interest people in the form of payment/favors). The govt promoted easy credit after the 9-11 attacks but never bothered to scrutinize what the easy credit led to happening in the financial markets. But what’s done is done. The most important thing at the time was to prevent the onset of a depression, which was a probable event had a few more major banks collapsed. The chain reaction would have been a disaster.

Most businesses will push the rules to the limit to maximize their profits. There’s no such thing as the invisible hand magically making businesses act ethically in a free market with no government intervention.

Here’s another example of businesses screwing people over:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/yo...t.html?_r=1&hp

[jiang bao]

http://factcheck.org/2009/07/mislead...h-care-claims/

Factcheck.org debunks some false Republican claims.

[JamesG]

http://factcheck.org/2009/07/mislead...h-care-claims/

Factcheck.org debunks some false Republican claims.

I suspect the height of the 'manure pile'
is about the same on both sides.
I did read the stuff on the link you posted, now here's one for you:
http://www.ilovefreedom.com/?p=284