[maxwell]

TIAN LONG BA BU REMAINS TILL TODAY A FAVOURITE OF MINE. DUE TO MY IGNORANCE OF CHINESE I HAVE TO DEPEND ON TRANSLATIONS. I WAS HOPING THAT MING-LEI HUANG WOULD MAKE FURTHER PROGRESS WITH THE TRANSLATION OF TIAN LONG BA BU, SO I DUN HAVE TO RAISE SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS HERE.

I HOPE SOMEONE HERE WILL PROVIDE ME WITH SOME HELP.


1. I READ SOMEWHERE THAT DURING THE SERIALISATION OF TIAN LONG BA BU IN THE MING PAO, JY TOOK LEAVE OF ABSENCE & SOMEONE FILLED IN FOR HIM FOR AWHILE. WAS IT NI KUANG WHO FILLED FOR HIM.
HOW MUCH OF TIAN LONG BA BU THEN WAS WRITTEN BY JY? OR DID HE REWRITE THOSE PARTS BY NI KUANG WHEN HE TURNED THE SERIES INTO A NOVEL?

2. ON TUAN YU'S GUNG FU. TUAN YU INITIALLY KNEW NO GUNG FU. AFTER HE VISITED THE CAVE, HE OBTAINED THE LING POR MEI POH MANUAL.
HOW & WHEN DID HE LEARNT THE LING POR MEI POH STEPS? AFTER THAT EVENT, TUAN YU ATE SOME KIND OF TOAD & CENTIPEDE---WHAT DID THESE CREATURES DID TO HIM---ENDOWED HIM WITH SOME SUPER HUMAN INTERNAL STRENGTH?
AFTER THESE EVENTS, TUAN YU WAS ABLE TO CAUSE A SPECIAL KIND OF WEAKENING EFFECT ON THOSE WHOM HE HAD PHYSICAL CONTACT. FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN THE THIRD ARCH-VILLAIN HELD TUAN YU'S HAND, HE FELT THAT EFFECT...
WHAT TYPE OF GUNG FU WAS IT & WHEN DID TUAN YU LEARNT IT.ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS SCENCES IN THE TVB SERIES WAS WHEN SEVERAL PEOPLE HELD ON TO THE THIRD ARCH-VILLAIN WHO WAS HOLDING TUAN YU'S HANDS FELT THE EFFECT FROM TUAN YU...HOW DID HE MANGE TO LEARN IT SO FAST---IS IT GUNG FU OR INTERNAL STRENGTH?

3. HOW & WHEN DID TUAN YU LEARNT THE LOK MAK SAN KIM GUNG FU? I AM CONFUSED. FIRST HE WAS WITH THE MONKS WHEN GAO MOR CHI VISITED THEM. SUBSEQUENTLY, HE WAS ABLE TO USE THE LOK MAK SAN KIM ON GAO MOR CHI. HOW DID HE LEARNT IT SO FAST? AND WHY IS IT THAT HE CAN ONLY USE THE LOK MAK SAN KIM AT CERTAIN TIMES ONLY & NOT ALWAYS?
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YI YANG TZE & LOK MAK SAN KIM?

4. IN THE CONDOR HEROES, GUO JING LEARNT THE JIANG LUNG 18 JIANG FROM HUNG CHI GUNG IN THE IMPERIAL PALACE. GUO JING NEEDED TO LEARN IT TO BREAK THE WALLS TO ESCAPE, SO HUNG CHI GUNG TAUGHT HIM THE FEW NECESSARY MOVES..(THIS IS ACCORDING TO THE TVB FIRST ADAPTATION--WHICH I PRESUMED IS QUITE FAITHFUL TO THE NOVEL) HOW DID HE LEARNT IT SO QUICKLY..? DID THE BLOOD FROM THE SNAKE HELP HIM TO LEARN IT FAST?

[AresInvincible]

Why are you writing in all caps? Anyway...

1. Jin Yong deleted all the parts written by Ni Kuang, except for *spoiler*when Ah Zi's eyes become blind*spoiler*. So I'd say about 98% of the story of the second and third editions are by Jin Yong.

2. Duan Yu learns Ling Bo Wei Bu in the cave where he finds the manual. The toad is the "King of Poison", so when Duan Yu eats it, he becomes immune to all poisons, therefore the centipede does no damage to him at all. The Bei Ming Shen Gong that allows Duan Yu to absorb his enemies' internal strength is on the same manual with Ling Bo Steps. Since many aspects of this technique are related to things Duan Yu already learned, he is able to learn it very quick. However, it's usually other people who touch him that allows him to execute this technique.

3. Duan Yu learns Liu Mai Shen Jian with the monks at Tian Long Temple. Because his internal strength is much greater than any of the monks there (due to him absorbing it from others using Bei Ming Shen Gong), he is able to learn the technique much faster than the monks. However, since he does not know any martial arts, he can't really control when he's able to use Liu Mai Shen Jian. Yi Yang Zhi is much weaker than Liu Mai Shen Jian, due to the fact that it requires lesser internal strength, and uses only 1 finger.

4. Actually...the effect of the red snake in Condor Heroes is the same as the toad in Tian Long Ba Bu. In the novel, Hong Qi Gong teaches Guo Jing 18 palms first because of Huang Rong's cooking, and later to defeat Ou Yang Ke. It takes a really long time for Guo Jing to learn in the novel.

[Laviathan]

Originally Posted by maxwell

4. IN THE CONDOR HEROES, GUO JING LEARNT THE JIANG LUNG 18 JIANG FROM HUNG CHI GUNG IN THE IMPERIAL PALACE. GUO JING NEEDED TO LEARN IT TO BREAK THE WALLS TO ESCAPE, SO HUNG CHI GUNG TAUGHT HIM THE FEW NECESSARY MOVES..(THIS IS ACCORDING TO THE TVB FIRST ADAPTATION--WHICH I PRESUMED IS QUITE FAITHFUL TO THE NOVEL)

Your assumption was not correct: this did not happen in the novel.

[maxwell]

AresInvincible & Laviathan, Thks for the replies.


Some more questions:



1. When u say JY deleted the parts by Ni Kuang--do u mean that JY developed a whole new story line all together using new characters & story plot or do u mean JY uses charaters developed by Ni Kuang and rewrote a new storyline for them? U mentioned that Ah Zhi going blind was a spoiler--that means Ah Zhi was a character already present in Ni Kuang's creation.


2. u mentioned that Tuan Yu was able to learn bei ming shen gung quickly becos of things that he is familiar with---what was he familiar him that enable him to execute such feat i.e. learning the skill so quickly....it probably took wu yah zhi, tian san tung lau, a long time to learn the art

3. what exactly is bei ming shen gung---qi gung or gung fu/ liu mai shen jian/yi yang zhi--qi gung or gung fu...
is yi jen jing the highest from of internal strength in demi-gods and semi-devils...

thks.

[Black Night Sea]

Originally Posted by maxwell

2. u mentioned that Tuan Yu was able to learn bei ming shen gung quickly becos of things that he is familiar with---what was he familiar him that enable him to execute such feat i.e. learning the skill so quickly....it probably took wu yah zhi, tian san tung lau, a long time to learn the art

To learn BMSG, no previous practice of inner cultivation is needed. Which makes it suitable for anybody who wants to learn it. The drawback for someone like Duan Yu, is understanding the more difficult parts. His quick grasp of the main essentials of the skill has got nothing to do with secondary aids of any sort. Learning LBWB on the other hand, is conveyed through coined labelling of the steps (not sure about their derivation). The steps are conveniently referred in the Book of Changes, to which DY has been concentrating since the beginning.

Originally Posted by maxwell

4. IN THE CONDOR HEROES, GUO JING LEARNT THE JIANG LUNG 18 JIANG FROM HUNG CHI GUNG IN THE IMPERIAL PALACE. GUO JING NEEDED TO LEARN IT TO BREAK THE WALLS TO ESCAPE, SO HUNG CHI GUNG TAUGHT HIM THE FEW NECESSARY MOVES..(THIS IS ACCORDING TO THE TVB FIRST ADAPTATION--WHICH I PRESUMED IS QUITE FAITHFUL TO THE NOVEL) HOW DID HE LEARNT IT SO QUICKLY..? DID THE BLOOD FROM THE SNAKE HELP HIM TO LEARN IT FAST?

No. Quanzhen inner cultivation helped him learn it fast and the set of palms were very straightforward. In this respect the technique has much in common with his simple-minded personality, and free of complicated transformations or patterns characterized in Huang Yaoshi’s style. I believe JY mentioned there’s no bounds to this palm technique, and this is more or less confirmed when its exploited by the 9 Yin Manuscript and drawn from Xiao Feng’s genius.

[Laviathan]

Originally Posted by maxwell

2. ON TUAN YU'S GUNG FU. TUAN YU INITIALLY KNEW NO GUNG FU. AFTER HE VISITED THE CAVE, HE OBTAINED THE LING POR MEI POH MANUAL.
HOW & WHEN DID HE LEARNT THE LING POR MEI POH STEPS? AFTER THAT EVENT, TUAN YU ATE SOME KIND OF TOAD & CENTIPEDE---WHAT DID THESE CREATURES DID TO HIM---ENDOWED HIM WITH SOME SUPER HUMAN INTERNAL STRENGTH?
AFTER THESE EVENTS, TUAN YU WAS ABLE TO CAUSE A SPECIAL KIND OF WEAKENING EFFECT ON THOSE WHOM HE HAD PHYSICAL CONTACT. FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN THE THIRD ARCH-VILLAIN HELD TUAN YU'S HAND, HE FELT THAT EFFECT...
WHAT TYPE OF GUNG FU WAS IT & WHEN DID TUAN YU LEARNT IT.ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS SCENCES IN THE TVB SERIES WAS WHEN SEVERAL PEOPLE HELD ON TO THE THIRD ARCH-VILLAIN WHO WAS HOLDING TUAN YU'S HANDS FELT THE EFFECT FROM TUAN YU...HOW DID HE MANGE TO LEARN IT SO FAST---IS IT GUNG FU OR INTERNAL STRENGTH?

Originally Posted by AresInvincible

2. Duan Yu learns Ling Bo Wei Bu in the cave where he finds the manual. The toad is the "King of Poison", so when Duan Yu eats it, he becomes immune to all poisons, therefore the centipede does no damage to him at all. The Bei Ming Shen Gong that allows Duan Yu to absorb his enemies' internal strength is on the same manual with Ling Bo Steps. Since many aspects of this technique are related to things Duan Yu already learned, he is able to learn it very quick. However, it's usually other people who touch him that allows him to execute this technique.

Originally Posted by maxwell

2. u mentioned that Tuan Yu was able to learn bei ming shen gung quickly becos of things that he is familiar with---what was he familiar him that enable him to execute such feat i.e. learning the skill so quickly....it probably took wu yah zhi, tian san tung lau, a long time to learn the art

Originally Posted by Hanky Panky

To learn BMSG, no previous practice of inner cultivation is needed. Which makes it suitable for anybody who wants to learn it. The drawback for someone like Duan Yu, is understanding the more difficult parts. His quick grasp of the main essentials of the skill has got nothing to do with secondary aids of any sort. Learning LBWB on the other hand, is conveyed through coined labelling of the steps (not sure about their derivation). The steps are conveniently referred in the Book of Changes, to which DY has been concentrating since the beginning.

No, no, no...

Duan Yu was able to learn Beiming Shengong because he had no previous internal martial arts training before, and thus lacked an internal power foundation. The first step (and most important part) of Beiming is to get rid of one's original internal power, making one's body a vacuüm in order to absorb the energy of others. If the previous power is not erased completely, the practitioner will surely die in the training process. Duan Yu, being a complete beginner, had no internal power to begin with, so it was easy for him to train this method. An experienced martial artist like for example Murong Fu, would have great trouble training Beiming.

Also, Duan Yu merely learned a small part of Beiming Shengong before the manuel got burned. He has only opened the energy channels of his thumbs. So, he can only ACTIVELY absorb other people's powers through his hands. He could also passively absorb energy when struck in the chest (near the solar plexus) because that's a natural energy channel.

Hope this answers the issue...

[maxwell]

thks very much laviathan & hanky panky...very informative replies.