How far into the Ming Dynasty do you believe the story of SPW occurs?

THE SMILING PROUD WANDERER evidently took place during the Ming Dynasty. The presence of the Mo Dong Sect and Ngor Mei Sect, but complete absence of Mongolian or Manchurian authorities is sufficient evidence of that. Unlike other Jin Yong stories, however, SPW featured no specific historical personages or events that pegged the story down to a specific time period. The story of SPW could have taken place at any time during the Ming Dynasty's nearly three-hundred-year history.

That said, are there any clues in the story that might give us a hint of *approximately* what part of the Ming Dynasty SPW took place in? Which period of the Ming Dynasty do you believe the story took place during?

I think Jin Yong wanted this to be up in the air though firmly somewhere during the Ming Dynasty.

As Du gu seeking a win notes here:

http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showpost...95&postcount=9

The 'Fang' name doesn't appear anywhere in poem that is used to give generational names to monks.

I honestly believe that Jin Yong intended XAJH to be more allegorical than his other stories and therefore left out any historical facts/aspects in his story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dirt

I think Jin Yong wanted this to be up in the air though firmly somewhere during the Ming Dynasty.

As Du gu seeking a win notes here:

http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showpost...95&postcount=9

The 'Fang' name doesn't appear anywhere in poem that is used to give generational names to monks.

I honestly believe that Jin Yong intended XAJH to be more allegorical than his other stories and therefore left out any historical facts/aspects in his story.

---

It was indeed different. I've always thought that SPW was the one Jin Yong story that was closest in character to a Gu Long story.

Jin Yong might have written SPW ignoring the existence of the Trilogy (e.g. when Wudang was created). We can think of SPW as a parallel universe to Trilogy, with DGSD being the ancestor of both.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PJ

Jin Yong might have written SPW ignoring the existence of the Trilogy (e.g. when Wudang was created). We can think of SPW as a parallel universe to Trilogy, with DGSD being the ancestor of both.

---

I like that idea and partly believe it myself. While there's a clear lineage between DGSD and SPW, throwing the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY in between seems to screw it up.

It would also explain why Dook Goo Kau Bai's sword theories seem so different in ROCH and SPW.

Pour Illustracion:

$this->handle_bbcode_url(str_replace('\"', '"', 'http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5296&stc=1&d=128872072 5'), '')

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PJ

Pour Illustracion:

$this->handle_bbcode_url(str_replace('\"', '"', 'http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5296&stc=1&d=128872072 5'), '')

---

Neat. It forms a cross too. Hmmm...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ken Cheng

I like that idea and partly believe it myself. While there's a clear lineage between DGSD and SPW, throwing the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY in between seems to screw it up.

It would also explain why Dook Goo Kau Bai's sword theories seem so different in ROCH and SPW.

---

The Hua-shan sect also differed drastically in terms of martial arts curriculum, customs etc. between HSDS, SPW and Crimson sword. It's as if they were three separate sects.

did SPW AND ODE go by other title names??

im lookn for it

Given the bad reputation of the imperial officials, I'd guess it was no earlier than late Wanli.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dirt

I think Jin Yong wanted this to be up in the air though firmly somewhere during the Ming Dynasty.

As Du gu seeking a win notes here:

http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showpost...95&postcount=9

The 'Fang' name doesn't appear anywhere in poem that is used to give generational names to monks.

I honestly believe that Jin Yong intended XAJH to be more allegorical than his other stories and therefore left out any historical facts/aspects in his story.

---

JY didn't base the names of the monks in HSDS on the Shaolin lineage poem either, as the words Du and Kong can't be found in the poem even though the Du monks and Kong monks must have been born a long time after the poem was written. So, using Fang Zheng's generation name to say that XAJH is set in a different universe than that of the Eagle Trilogy is kind of a weak argument. But I agree that its time setting should be at some point towards the end of the Ming dynasty.

cant be within 2 generations of hsds, or else they wouldve known about zwj etc...

i assume a geration is 18-25yrs or even shorter since ppl back in those days married around 15-17 right?

explains why ming cult deceased....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dai Hiep

cant be within 2 generations of hsds, or else they wouldve known about zwj etc...

i assume a geration is 18-25yrs or even shorter since ppl back in those days married around 15-17 right?

explains why ming cult deceased....

---

Chu Yeun Cheung (the first Ming Emperor) forced the original Ming Cult to disband, but it reconvened as SPW's Sun Moon Cult

Looking through the history books, there was another substantial period when the entire Ming court was discredited enough to warrant such hostility from the commoners in wulin. The Zhengde/Jiajing/Longqing era, just before early Wanli, was pretty bad too. Late Wanli would also be just as bad, but any later than that and we're into the short reigns of Taichang, Tianqi and finally the tragic reign of Chongzhen. It's unlikely that it's set in those three reigns, as by then the Manchu threat was known, and the wulin would most likely have had some mention of the foreign tribes harassing the borders and so on. As there was no mention whatsoever of the Jurchens, I'd guess that it was late Wanli, because by that time things were really really bad. Early Wanli (the first half of Wanli's reign was good) saw a lot of repair of damage done by the previous three inept reigns, and the people's morale was quite high, so it shouldn't be during then.

Unlike the majority of Jin Yong's wuxia stories, the exact historical setting of THE SMILING PROUD WANDERER is not explicitly clear. We know that it is set in the Ming Dynasty because the Mo Dong Sect and Ngor Mei Sect are already well-established in wulin, but there is no hint of Mongolian (Yuan) or Manchurian (Qing) overlords. Thus, how far into the Ming Dynasty do you reckon the story of SPW was set? Do you think it is set closer to the beginning of the dynasty, perhaps just a few decades after the end of HSDS, or do you think it is set closer to the dynasty's end, perhaps a generation or two before the events of SWORD STAINED WITH ROYAL BLOOD?

My feeling is that because there is no reference to a recent occupation by Mongols within the lifetime of any of the characters (including the oldest among them), and no hint at a Manchurian menace, the story likely takes place near the halfway mark of the dynasty, perhaps during the late 1400s or early 1500s.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ken Cheng

Do you think it is set closer to the beginning of the dynasty, perhaps just a few decades after the end of HSDS, or do you think it is set closer to the dynasty's end, perhaps a generation or two before the events of SWORD STAINED WITH ROYAL BLOOD?

My feeling is that because there is no reference to a recent occupation by Mongols within the lifetime of any of the characters (including the oldest among them), and no hint at a Manchurian menace, the story likely takes place near the halfway mark of the dynasty, perhaps during the late 1400s or early 1500s.

---

It can't be the beginning because the Five Mountain Sword Sects Alliance has already been well established by SPW. A couple hundred years in sounds more right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PJ

Pour Illustracion:

$this->handle_bbcode_url(str_replace('\"', '"', 'http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5296&stc=1&d=128872072 5'), '')

---

Nah. It should be:

DGSD
Trilogy
Ode to Gallantry or SPW (it is more likely that Ode to Gallantry comes first) or The Deadly Secret
DOMD
Book and Sword
FFOSM

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stance

It can't be the beginning because the Five Mountain Sword Sects Alliance has already been well established by SPW. A couple hundred years in sounds more right.

---

I reckon early 1500s...probably no later than mid-1500s. In the first episode of SPW '84, Ngok But Kwun mentioned that the Five Mountains Sword Federation had been in conflict with the Demon Sect (Sun Moon Sect) for "100 years," which apparently post-dated the end of HSDS and the founding of the Ming Dynasty by at least several decades. The Ming Dynasty started in CE 1368 and ended in CE 1644, so early to mid-1500s seems ideally suited for the story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trien Chieu

Nah. It should be:

DGSD
Trilogy
Ode to Gallantry or SPW (it is more likely that Ode to Gallantry comes first) or The Deadly Secret
DOMD
Book and Sword
FFOSM

---

Deadly Secret comes after DOMD - the third edition refers to the death of Wu Liuqi, which occurred in DOMD. It is uncertain where it is relative to Book and Sword and Flying Fox though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doc Kwok

Deadly Secret comes after DOMD - the third edition refers to the death of Wu Liuqi, which occurred in DOMD. It is uncertain where it is relative to Book and Sword and Flying Fox though.

---

Oh. I watched the series Lin Shing Kuet with Roger Kwok as the main lead. All the costumes is in Ming Dynasty. The same for Mainland China adaption even though I haven't watched it.