Hong Lung 18 Palms - powerful, but not *particularly* lethal martial art?

Hong Lung 18 Palms is rightly lauded as one of the most powerful martial arts ever described in Jin Yong's canon. Users of Hong Lung 18 Palms were typically among the most powerful martial artists of their era, and the skill was considered an elite martial art.

As far as its kill record, however, surprisingly...there's only one confirmed fatality from Hong Lung 18 Palms: Ah Chu at the hands of Kiu Fung in DGSD. Other than perhaps the anonymous fighters Kiu Fung killed at Tsui Yin Manor, nobody else was really ever *killed* by Hong Lung 18 Palms.

The reasons for this are various: first, Hong Lung 18 Palms was typically used against high-caliber (i.e. Greats-level) fighters who could match it with their own martial arts. Second, the users of Hong Lung 18 Palms were typically good-hearted, virtuous men who avoided killing unless it was absolutely necessary or warranted.

Still, it's surprising that this feared and lauded martial art has only one confirmed kill in the entire Jin Yong canon when the skill is featured in no fewer than four Jin Yong novels.

You answered the question for yourself. XL18Z is absolutely lethal. But anything will look more normal if you have no killing intent or are using it against people as good or better than yourself.

But there's a reason why XL18Z may be the most feared of all the palm techniques in the JY universe.

If we think about it, what other elite MA managed a kill in JY's world. (if you take out instances such as Juxian Manor and misc people H7G killed).

I think its just that the people with XL18Z and other elite MAs are so good that they dun seek to kill or they dun get much fight anyway.

Ditto that comment on all elite arts.

I can't recall Yiyangzhi or Dog beating stick or Sad Palms (Goldie wouldn't have died if not for trying to save Guo Xiang after that incident) or Tan Zhi Shen Tong or 6MSJ killing any elite fighter either.

The only elite art which IIRC, scored a KO on another elite was DG9J on DFBB. And that was a cheating backstab so it doesn't really count.

Tanzhi Shentong killed Huodu.
Think that's about it.

Huo Du wasn't "elite." The fact of the matter is that Jin Yong doesn't depict elite guys dying very often, and if he mainly depicts XL18Z against elite fighters, then obviously, by proxy, it's not going to do much killing.

But since it is the best yang palm in the Jin Yong universe, I think it's pretty safe to assume it's lethal as all get out.

You know, its funny how XF at Ju Xian Zhuang kills 1st Class Elite fighters with unamed kicks and fists using 1 blow or so but when he uses a FULL POWER strike of XL18Z's most Lethal Stance, a girl with virtually no kung-fu survived a while longer?

When Ah Zhu looked at Yi Jin Jing she "subconsciously" understood some of the Sanskrit teachings in it or the pictures or whatever. Then when she decided to get killed to save XF from the Duan clan she was obviously enlightened. So because of her enlightenment, the power of YJJ protected her from XL18Z long enough to talk and have a dramatic death!

Alternatively, tian yi, tian yi ah.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by K2Grey

When Ah Zhu looked at Yi Jin Jing she "subconsciously" understood some of the Sanskrit teachings in it or the pictures or whatever. Then when she decided to get killed to save XF from the Duan clan she was obviously enlightened. So because of her enlightenment, the power of YJJ protected her from XL18Z long enough to talk and have a dramatic death!

Alternatively, tian yi, tian yi ah.

---

i like that interpretation, though i'm not sure getting killed by XF counted as enlightment...afterall, what is death and what is life? :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CC

You know, its funny how XF at Ju Xian Zhuang kills 1st Class Elite fighters with unamed kicks and fists using 1 blow or so but when he uses a FULL POWER strike of XL18Z's most Lethal Stance, a girl with virtually no kung-fu survived a while longer?

---

I wouldn't call Ah Chu a girl who had no kung fu skills, but certainly, she wasn't remotely a person who could take a Hong Lung 18 Palm strike and still be breathing five minutes later.

I've always rationalized it as residual inner power that Kiu Fung pumped into her when she was suffering from her earlier Mighty Gum Gwong Palms injury.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CC

You know, its funny how XF at Ju Xian Zhuang kills 1st Class Elite fighters with unamed kicks and fists using 1 blow or so but when he uses a FULL POWER strike of XL18Z's most Lethal Stance, a girl with virtually no kung-fu survived a while longer?

---

I call this WPM: Will-Powered Miracle.

It's like when Xiao Longnu received a combined blow from 5 Masters of Quanzhen + Golden Wheel Monk, and still lived. In LOCH it was said that even Huang Yaoshi would have major trouble dealing with a SINGLE blow from Ouyang Feng (who was not as good as Pre-16 years Goldie yet) while fighting 4 Masters of Quanzhen. Surely Xiao Longnu's internal energy is nowhere near LOCH Huang Yaoshi's. But, because she loved Yang Guo so much, she survived.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PJ

I call this WPM: Will-Powered Miracle.

It's like when Xiao Longnu received a combined blow from 5 Masters of Quanzhen + Golden Wheel Monk, and still lived. In LOCH it was said that even Huang Yaoshi would have major trouble dealing with a SINGLE blow from Ouyang Feng (who was not as good as Pre-16 years Goldie yet) while fighting 4 Masters of Quanzhen. Surely Xiao Longnu's internal energy is nowhere near LOCH Huang Yaoshi's. But, because she loved Yang Guo so much, she survived.

---

or maybe "main character's love interest" syndrome. certainly, no one WANTS to die :P

Leave it to PJ to provide an accurate acronym.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ken Cheng

I wouldn't call Ah Chu a girl who had no kung fu skills, but certainly, she wasn't remotely a person who could take a Hong Lung 18 Palm strike and still be breathing five minutes later.

I've always rationalized it as residual inner power that Kiu Fung pumped into her when she was suffering from her earlier Mighty Gum Gwong Palms injury.

---

If I had to drag an explanation out of my butt for it, it would be :

A synergistic combination of :

Residual Inner Energy from XF's treatment (which Dr Xue noticed circulating in her)

Medical fortification from whatever herbal concoction Dr Xue treated her with

Subconcious reading of the Yijinjing

Extra padding from the disguise protected her since she had to bulk up to look like a man

Erm, her natural padding?

dun tink they had the maximiers than :D :D :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tazzy1972

dun tink they had the maximiers than :D :D :D

---

So we conclude she has real big boobies? :p

Jokes aside, Goldie does have a registered kill-Qiu Qian Ren. QQR is definitely an elite (I believe his years with 1Deng would actually propel him to reach Great level, no longer trailing marginally).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CC

You know, its funny how XF at Ju Xian Zhuang kills 1st Class Elite fighters with unamed kicks and fists using 1 blow or so but when he uses a FULL POWER strike of XL18Z's most Lethal Stance, a girl with virtually no kung-fu survived a while longer?

---

Now Donnie Yen has revised it with his Sakra film, killing a lot with his XL18Z :D

But still kill Ah Zhu in that movie :smash: