Jin Lun Fawang early

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06-02-21, 03:30 PM
Phoenix87

Jin Lun Fawang early

Hi everyone. I have been reading hundreds of threads here but had to sign up after many years.
So I have a lot of questions, and will try to ask one by one and hopefully get some answers.

1. Jin Lun Fawang/Guoshi, where was he in his younger days. When he fought ZBT, Yideng and HYS, he said that he had heard about the greats in his younger days. But where did he live?
He serving the Mongolian where GJ also lived, but he never appear in LOCH, and suddenly he came at ROCH.

2. It has been a lot of discussions about JLFW Martial Art level and his progress during the time.
Anyway, does someone really mean/think that he pass GJ? I mean, ok GJ may have not progress so much because he was busy being general and defending the city, but with 9Yin, 18 Dragon Subduing Palm + many others Martial Art, shouldn’t he “easily” win over JLFW in a 1 to 1 life death battle?
9Yin and 9Yang are probably Jin Yong strongest and best martial art, and then comes Martial Arts from the 5 Greats. So, if JLFW tie with some of the 5 greats, does it mean that Dragon Elephant martial art, rank same level as 18 dragon, YiYang finger, Toad, and so on? I cannot remember that D.Elephant has been mentioned that it was so great.
06-02-21, 04:00 PM
Ken Cheng

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix87

Hi everyone. I have been reading hundreds of threads here but had to sign up after many years.
So I have a lot of questions, and will try to ask one by one and hopefully get some answers.

1. Jin Lun Fawang/Guoshi, where was he in his younger days. When he fought ZBT, Yideng and HYS, he said that he had heard about the greats in his younger days. But where did he live?
He serving the Mongolian where GJ also lived, but he never appear in LOCH, and suddenly he came at ROCH.

I imagine that the Golden Wheel Monk was around ten years (give or take) older than Gwok Jing. When he was very young (e.g. a kid), he left Mongolia for Tibet to train in both Lama Buddhism and martial arts. He did not return to Mongolia until well into adulthood, when he had attained a measure of prestige and accomplishment in both Tibetan Lama Buddhism and martial arts. Throughout LOCH, we can imagine that the Golden Wheel Monk was unknown outside of Tibet, as he was still cultivating his skills. He likely did hear much about the lore of the great martial artists of the Central Plains and studied them from afar.

Quote:

2. It has been a lot of discussions about JLFW Martial Art level and his progress during the time.
Anyway, does someone really mean/think that he pass GJ? I mean, ok GJ may have not progress so much because he was busy being general and defending the city, but with 9Yin, 18 Dragon Subduing Palm + many others Martial Art, shouldn’t he “easily” win over JLFW in a 1 to 1 life death battle?

Yes. The inner power difference between them is not great, and even if you give the Golden Wheel Monk a slight edge in inner power, this is offset by Gwok Jing's much greater skill as a combatant. For all his power, the Golden Wheel Monk was kind of a "dumb" fighter with poor battle judgment and was prone to lose fights he might otherwise win because he had a tendency to panic and get flustered whenever he ran into something new and different for which he was unprepared. In contrast, though Gwok Jing was known to be "slow" and inarticulate, his battle instincts were always excellent and he seldom, if ever, made any erroneous calls in battle.

Quote:

9Yin and 9Yang are probably Jin Yong strongest and best martial art, and then comes Martial Arts from the 5 Greats. So, if JLFW tie with some of the 5 greats, does it mean that Dragon Elephant martial art, rank same level as 18 dragon, YiYang finger, Toad, and so on? I cannot remember that D.Elephant has been mentioned that it was so great.

It's a great inner power builder...some even argue the best (maybe it is), but it doesn't come with any fighting techniques. The Golden Wheel Monk's fighting techniques, while not completely sh*thouse, seem to be lacking compared to those of the Central Plains Greats.
06-02-21, 04:14 PM
FeilongZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix87

Hi everyone. I have been reading hundreds of threads here but had to sign up after many years.
So I have a lot of questions, and will try to ask one by one and hopefully get some answers.

1. Jin Lun Fawang/Guoshi, where was he in his younger days. When he fought ZBT, Yideng and HYS, he said that he had heard about the greats in his younger days. But where did he live?
He serving the Mongolian where GJ also lived, but he never appear in LOCH, and suddenly he came at ROCH.

2. It has been a lot of discussions about JLFW Martial Art level and his progress during the time.
Anyway, does someone really mean/think that he pass GJ? I mean, ok GJ may have not progress so much because he was busy being general and defending the city, but with 9Yin, 18 Dragon Subduing Palm + many others Martial Art, shouldn’t he “easily” win over JLFW in a 1 to 1 life death battle?
9Yin and 9Yang are probably Jin Yong strongest and best martial art, and then comes Martial Arts from the 5 Greats. So, if JLFW tie with some of the 5 greats, does it mean that Dragon Elephant martial art, rank same level as 18 dragon, YiYang finger, Toad, and so on? I cannot remember that D.Elephant has been mentioned that it was so great.

2. Post-16 Jinlun Fawang with 10th level Dragon Elephane Prana Palms was extremely powerful.
He was able to put ZBT in a virtually defensive mode. Therefore, the author stated ZBT could could not harm Fawang.
The power of Fawang's palms makes up for his lack of great techniques.
I think ZBT will eventually run out of gas in a moderate period of time because of his advanced age and will be defeated.

As for 9 Yin and 9 Yang being Jinyong's most powerful/best martial arts, it is not entirely accurate.
Post-16 Yang Guo with Sad Palms was able to defeat Fawang in a relatively quick fashion in the final battle. Don't forget that YG also has his No. 1 weapon and skills, the Heavy Iron Sword and its techniques.

I think put Guo Jing in the place of YG in the final battle with Fawang, with the extreme situation, burning tower, and also he will be distracted trying to save his daughter, GJ will most likely die or he along with Fawang and his daughter will all die together.
06-02-21, 05:04 PM
Western Eccentric

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeilongZ

2. Post-16 Jinlun Fawang with 10th level Dragon Elephane Prana Palms was extremely powerful.
He was able to put ZBT in a virtually defensive mode. Therefore, the author stated ZBT could could not harm Fawang.
The power of Fawang's palms makes up for his lack of great techniques.
I think ZBT will eventually run out of gas in a moderate period of time because of his advanced age and will be defeated.

As for 9 Yin and 9 Yang being Jinyong's most powerful/best martial arts, it is not entirely accurate.
Post-16 Yang Guo with Sad Palms was able to defeat Fawang in a relatively quick fashion in the final battle. Don't forget that YG also has his No. 1 weapon and skills, the Heavy Iron Sword and its techniques.

I think put Guo Jing in the place of YG in the final battle with Fawang, with the extreme situation, burning tower, and also he will be distracted trying to save his daughter, GJ will most likely die or he along with Fawang and his daughter will all die together.

TBH I don't think HIS is the best art YG have I mean which make HIS so special is the "philosophy" behind this skill not the "technique" since this technique itself is very simple and ordinary compared with other sword technique like Jade Maiden Sword or Bixie Sword or even QZ Sword also never think JLFW in the same class with GJ at least in terms of "fighting" he is just like Wuji have a great internal but less of "finesse"..
06-02-21, 05:05 PM
Western Eccentric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Cheng

I imagine that the Golden Wheel Monk was around ten years (give or take) older than Gwok Jing. When he was very young (e.g. a kid), he left Mongolia for Tibet to train in both Lama Buddhism and martial arts. He did not return to Mongolia until well into adulthood, when he had attained a measure of prestige and accomplishment in both Tibetan Lama Buddhism and martial arts. Throughout LOCH, we can imagine that the Golden Wheel Monk was unknown outside of Tibet, as he was still cultivating his skills. He likely did hear much about the lore of the great martial artists of the Central Plains and studied them from afar.

Yes. The inner power difference between them is not great, and even if you give the Golden Wheel Monk a slight edge in inner power, this is offset by Gwok Jing's much greater skill as a combatant. For all his power, the Golden Wheel Monk was kind of a "dumb" fighter with poor battle judgment and was prone to lose fights he might otherwise win because he had a tendency to panic and get flustered whenever he ran into something new and different for which he was unprepared. In contrast, though Gwok Jing wasn't known to be "slow" and inarticulate, his battle instincts were always excellent and he seldom, if ever, made any erroneous calls in battle.

It's a great inner power builder...some even argue the best (maybe it is), but it doesn't come with any fighting techniques. The Golden Wheel Monk's fighting techniques, while not completely sh*thouse, seem to be lacking compared to those of the Central Plains Greats.

If I not wrong JLFW age is 20 years older than GJ..
06-02-21, 05:34 PM
Ken Cheng

Quote:

Originally Posted by Western Eccentric

If I not wrong JLFW age is 20 years older than GJ..

That much? I've always thought of the Golden Wheel Monk being closer to Gwok Jing's age than the senior Greats' age. I figured that at MOST, the Golden Wheel Monk was an early teen when Gwok Jing was born.
06-02-21, 05:43 PM
Western Eccentric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Cheng

That much? I've always thought of the Golden Wheel Monk being closer to Gwok Jing's age than the senior Greats' age. I figured that at MOST, the Golden Wheel Monk was an early teen when Gwok Jing was born.

Return of The Condor Hero chapter 21..

Fawang’s martial arts and Guo Jing’s martial arts were separated by the smallest of margins; Guo Jing may have had more fortunate encounters than Fawang but Fawang was twenty years older than he and had twenty years worth of internal energy more than Guo Jing.
06-02-21, 05:48 PM
Ken Cheng

Quote:

Originally Posted by Western Eccentric

Return of The Condor Hero chapter 21..

Fawang’s martial arts and Guo Jing’s martial arts were separated by the smallest of margins; Guo Jing may have had more fortunate encounters than Fawang but Fawang was twenty years older than he and had twenty years worth of internal energy more than Guo Jing.

OK. I guess Golden Wheel Monk was more an old fart than I thought.
06-02-21, 07:18 PM
EdenResident

A little off topic but, even though Jin Yong is my most favorite author, I can't stand his portrayals of Tibetian/foreign monks as bad guys. JMZ, JLFW, the fake Shaolin monk and the 28 monks in HSDS, the monks in LDJ. It bordelines bigotry to be honest.
06-02-21, 07:52 PM
FeilongZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Western Eccentric

TBH I don't think HIS is the best art YG have I mean which make HIS so special is the "philosophy" behind this skill not the "technique" since this technique itself is very simple and ordinary compared with other sword technique like Jade Maiden Sword or Bixie Sword or even QZ Sword also never think JLFW in the same class with GJ at least in terms of "fighting" he is just like Wuji have a great internal but less of "finesse"..

"Simplicity brings superiority", especially when you have a legendary weapon infused with Great+ internal.
Simple slashes, cuts, stabs, etc. are considered to be more powerful than the most exquisite techniques.

The goal here is to overwhelm your opponent and defeat him/her in the simplest, unpredictable, and quickest way as possible.
06-03-21, 01:08 AM
Western Eccentric

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeilongZ

"Simplicity brings superiority", especially when you have a legendary weapon infused with Great+ internal.
Simple slashes, cuts, stabs, etc. are considered to be more powerful than the most exquisite techniques.

The goal here is to overwhelm your opponent and defeat him/her in the simplest, unpredictable, and quickest way as possible.

Post 16 years HIS YG just like George Foreman he could easily beat all of his foe with raw and brute force but he lack speed and mobility in the other hand Sad Palm YG is like Mohammad Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard he doesn't use "brute force" but with his speed and technique so which better I think no one better since Forman and Ali was considered in the same "level" so HIS YG and Sad Palm YG more or less also "equal"..
06-03-21, 01:24 AM
Ken Cheng

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdenResident

A little off topic but, even though Jin Yong is my most favorite author, I can't stand his portrayals of Tibetian/foreign monks as bad guys. JMZ, JLFW, the fake Shaolin monk and the 28 monks in HSDS, the monks in LDJ. It bordelines bigotry to be honest.

Possibly, though it might just be a matter of which nations and territories China was at war against during the centuries when his stories unfolded. It's one reason I've been fascinated recently watching CHOR LAU HEUNG (1979), which took the uncharacteristic approach (for pre-Qing Dynasty wuxia) of setting up the Japanese as antagonists. Something different...at least for wuxia.
06-03-21, 01:31 AM
Western Eccentric

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Cheng

Possibly, though it might just be a matter of which nations and territories China was at war against during the centuries when his stories unfolded. It's one reason I've been fascinated recently watching CHOR LAU HEUNG (1979), which took the uncharacteristic approach (for pre-Qing Dynasty wuxia) of setting up the Japanese as antagonists. Something different...at least for wuxia.

In two of LYS novel the Japanese also portrayed as a "antagonist" but they are not categorized as a "main villain"..
06-03-21, 02:23 AM
FeilongZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Western Eccentric

Post 16 years HIS YG just like George Foreman he could easily beat all of his foe with raw and brute force but he lack speed and mobility in the other hand Sad Palm YG is like Mohammad Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard he doesn't use "brute force" but with his speed and technique so which better I think no one better since Forman and Ali was considered in the same "level" so HIS YG and Sad Palm YG more or less also "equal"..

Great analogy.
I think the HIS was somehow missing speed and agility, and that was why when YG was training during the 16-year interlude with the wooden sword, he thought that speed, along with ability could overcome the HIS.
06-03-21, 05:31 AM
Western Eccentric

Quote:

Originally Posted by FeilongZ

Great analogy.
I think the HIS was somehow missing speed and agility, and that was why when YG was training during the 16-year interlude with the wooden sword, he thought that speed, along with ability could overcome the HIS.

Thanx..
So which better between Sad Palm YG or HIS YG well I think they are equal the difference is only in terms of they "fighting style" in the other word YG could switch himself from Ali to Foreman or Foreman to Ali style depends on the enemy he face😁😁😁😁
06-03-21, 12:52 PM
FeilongZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Western Eccentric

Thanx..
So which better between Sad Palm YG or HIS YG well I think they are equal the difference is only in terms of they "fighting style" in the other word YG could switch himself from Ali to Foreman or Foreman to Ali style depends on the enemy he face😁😁😁😁

So YG is the most versatile fighter in the Condor Trilogy :)
It would be cool if YG carry the HIS with him the whole time during the 16-year interlude, along with the Divine Condor. That would make him look more intimidating.