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Thread: How did rumors about the Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre begin spreading?

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default How did rumors about the Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre begin spreading?

    When Gwok Jing and Wong Yung forged the Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre in their final days, they did not make it public knowledge that they were forging the weapons or why. That information was known to a privileged few: namely, their children Gwok Seung and Gwok Por Lo. Anybody else who found the weapons would recognize that they were extraordinary weapons (extremely high quality, with unmatchable sharpness and weight), but not "magical" in any way.

    And yet, in the time of HEAVEN SWORD & DRAGON SABRE, all of wulin became obssessed with the weapons because of the following words:

    The Icon of Wulin
    The Treasured Sabre Dragonslayer
    Commands The World
    None Dare Disobey.
    If The Heaven Sword Does Not Emerge,
    What Can Challenge For The Peak?

    How did the rumor that the Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre held vital secrets start?

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    maybe it's due to the rapid globalisation, major breakthrough in telecommunications technology, the advancement of the internet?

    but seriosly weren't there a will by the condor shooting couple describing the said secret and their intention about driving out the mongolian forces after they forged the two swords so that in the future a worthy hero may rise to the occasion using the manuals in the swords? i think the the whole thing start from this point, going more ridiculous as time passed (it change from a noble cause to some stupid rumour BS about whoever have the swords can control the world). so it's a known fact that the two swords contain secrets.

    if the secret is just intended for a close circle of people then someone must deliberately or unintentionally spread the think out. JY didn't follow up the swords history after they were forged and suddenly they poped up in the yuan's twilight years achieving legendary status. so there's not known how the thing spread. one can only speculate.
    Last edited by space_cadet; 12-14-04 at 06:59 AM.

  3. #3
    atlantean0208
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    JY never stated in the HSDS book of how the rumor spreading....

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    One of the people who possessed the sword at the time ran into financial difficulties, needed loads of money and decided to put the swords up for auction. He then proceeded to spread crazy rumours in order to inflate the price tag.

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    Senior Member Zhuge Liang's Avatar
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    You know what chinese are like with gossip. I'm sure others close to Guo Jing were probably made privy to the secrets. Presumably someone had to tell Guo Xiang who was not present at the time?
    TristeCoeur on Lady Yang: Someone needs 2 tell her that when u want 2 save people from being killed, u need to hurry the hell up, not play bull#### music & dance around. Her mission failed big time

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    Wouldn't Guo Xiang be the person? She knew the secret.

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    Senior Member ToOn99's Avatar
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    GJ and HR were so well known and powerful in wulin. If they wanted to spread the rumour, it would be so easy.
    Disappeared Into Unannoying Signature

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToOn99
    GJ and HR were so well known and powerful in wulin. If they wanted to spread the rumour, it would be so easy.
    I doubt they *wanted* to spread that rumor, though. It couldn't lead anywhere good and would certainly put a monkey wrench in the overall plot to retake China from the Mongols. I think Gwok Jing and Wong Yung meant for the secrets of the weapons to be known to their children only, but somehow, it didn't work out that way.

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    But why make a poem if they only intended for their children to know about the secret.

    "Here you go. Happy Birthday. This isn't just a normal sword. It's a special sword. But I won't tell you. You have to figure it out yourself. Oh, by the way, here's a clue."
    I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyT
    But why make a poem if they only intended for their children to know about the secret.

    "Here you go. Happy Birthday. This isn't just a normal sword. It's a special sword. But I won't tell you. You have to figure it out yourself. Oh, by the way, here's a clue."
    That's just it, though. I really doubt that the Gwoks created that poem.

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    Moderator CrazyT's Avatar
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    But they're the only people who knew enough about the weapons to create the poem. I think their real intention was to have their children pass on the sabre/sword to someone who was capable of overthrowing the Mongol empire. GJ knew that during his lifetime, and probably his son's lifetime, it will not be possible to defeat the Mongol. So he tucked the war manual and 9Yin away safely inside indestructible weapons (except against each other) and it was now his descendants job to find those weapons a suitable owner. The poem was created so that later generations would know that the weapons are important (so it won't end up in some private collection) but also to prevent the war manual from falling into the wrong hands (don't wanna give the answer right now).
    I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code.

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    Member Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Got a question here didn't GX roam far and wide to find YG and never returned to Shang Yang how did she get posession of the Heaven's Sword?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis
    Got a question here didn't GX roam far and wide to find YG and never returned to Shang Yang how did she get posession of the Heaven's Sword?
    That's a good question. I'm guessing "never returned" refers only to the period when her parents were still alive. After word reached her that the city had fallen to the Mongols, I'm fairly certain that Gwok Seung must have returned to Seung Yeung to see what happened to her family (she couldn't have been that rootless). Possibly, she found the Heaven Sword in the wreckage of the city at the time (and possibly her parents' corpses?).

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    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis
    Got a question here didn't GX roam far and wide to find YG and never returned to Shang Yang how did she get posession of the Heaven's Sword?
    She wandered for quite a long time but she did return to Xiangyang. Guo Jing and Huang Rong gave Heaven Sword to her personally.
    對 敵 須 狠 , 斬 草 除 根 , 男 女 老 幼 , 不 留 一 人

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    Senior Member Zhuge Liang's Avatar
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    If the swords clash normally, will they break? Or do they require the excercise of qi to a certain degree?

    Was it noted where in the weapons the stuff was hidden? Since most TV series show the weapons chopped in half quite perfectly... thus if the manuals are in the middle then they will be sliced in half as well...
    TristeCoeur on Lady Yang: Someone needs 2 tell her that when u want 2 save people from being killed, u need to hurry the hell up, not play bull#### music & dance around. Her mission failed big time

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhuge Liang
    If the swords clash normally, will they break? Or do they require the excercise of qi to a certain degree?
    Mit Jeut See Tai instructed Chow Chi Yerk to use inner power when clashing the weapons together (or at least she did in HSDS '86), so I'm guessing it would take more than an incidental impact to do the trick.

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    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhuge Liang
    If the swords clash normally, will they break? Or do they require the excercise of qi to a certain degree?
    Miejue told Zhou Zhiruo to use inner power when clashing the weapons. So, I guess Qi is needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhuge Liang
    Was it noted where in the weapons the stuff was hidden?
    Inside the blades. It was hollow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhuge Liang
    Since most TV series show the weapons chopped in half quite perfectly... thus if the manuals are in the middle then they will be sliced in half as well...
    Frankly, the manuels could not have been hidden inside the weapons in the first place. It could not have been able to withstand the heat during forging.

    Anyway, the whole idea of "Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre secret" is a bit far-fetched... According to Zhang Wuji, the true intention of Guo Jing and Huang Rong was for the Dragon Sabre to fall into the hands of a hero who could use the military manuel to lead the Han in revolt against the Mongols. But if the new leader would become a tyrant himself, another hero should appear with Heaven Sword and use his superb martial arts to slay him. But logically speaking, the person who would obtain the war manuel should automatically get the martial arts manuel as well, for you need both weapons to obtain the secrets.
    對 敵 須 狠 , 斬 草 除 根 , 男 女 老 幼 , 不 留 一 人

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    And they never could have known that the hero would already have 9Yang would get both and would not have the proclitivity to use either. The best laid plans......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Chen
    And they never could have known that the hero would already have 9Yang would get both and would not have the proclitivity to use either. The best laid plans......
    The plan ultimately did pay off, albeit in an extremely roundabout and convoluted way that Gwok Jing and Wong Yung could never have even imagined. As it was, the 9 Yum Jen Ging was indeed superfluous for Cheung Mo Gei, who had the 9 Yeung Jen Ging and Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee at his disposal. Ngok Fei's War Tactics Manual, however, was indispensable: it enabled Cheung Mo Gei and his allies to get out of the Shaolin Temple alive when the Mongols had the temple surrounded at the end of the story.

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    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Ngok Fei's War Tactics Manual, however, was indispensable: it enabled Cheung Mo Gei and his allies to get out of the Shaolin Temple alive when the Mongols had the temple surrounded at the end of the story.
    Zhang Wuji tried his best but could not effectively use the manuel (he was not a military tactician). They were losing the battle and the Shaolin temple would have been destroyed, the majority of the heroes would have perished as well. Wuji and his allies were in fact saved by the rebel armies of Xu Da and Chang Yuchun, that arrived just in time.
    對 敵 須 狠 , 斬 草 除 根 , 男 女 老 幼 , 不 留 一 人

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