How impressed was Gwok Seung by Ho Juk Do's martial arts?

[Ken Cheng]

Did HEAVEN SWORD & DRAGON SABRE mention whether or not Gwok Seung was impressed by Ho Juk Do's (the Kwun Lun Sect elder) martial arts skills when she visited the Shaolin Temple? Nearly everyone there was quite impressed by Ho Juk Do's considerable prowess that day, but I have doubts that Gwok Seung would be one of them. She had, after all, seen six Greats in action during her lifetime. As excellent a fighter as Ho Juk Do was, he was small change compared to the Greats.

Gwok Seung would probably be thinking, "This Ho Juk Do guy thinks he's all that, but my daddy, my big brother Yeung, my granddaddy, or even old Golden Wheel Monk would wipe the floor with him!"

[Ren Wo Xing]

"Guo Xiang, herself was not a real martial arts expert due to her young age. However, her friends and relatives are all top martial arts experts of this time so her insight is very profound on martial arts. When she saw that He ZuDao used balanced movements and very clever moves to avoid very violent attacks she knew his martial arts were of an entire different type and were very different from the martial arts found in China." From Athena's translation, I believe.

Generally, Jinyong's novels state that the martial arts of the Central Plains (ie China) are superior to that of the 'barbarian' martial arts, or martial arts from the outlying area, so this could imply that she didn't think too much of his martial arts.

Also, Zhang Junbao's internal energy was actually superior to He Zudao's at this time, due to his learning a little of the Jiu Yang, but we KNOW that his internal energy was far lesser than Yang Guo, Guo Jing, etc. etc. etc. at the time. So most likely, Guo Xiang just thought of Zudao as a "good martial artist", but little more.

[CFT]

Generally, Jinyong's novels state that the martial arts of the Central Plains (ie China) are superior to that of the 'barbarian' martial arts, or martial arts from the outlying area, so this could imply that she didn't think too much of his martial arts.

Indeed. Even Kin Kwun Dai Loy Yee was considered inferior to Kwun Lun's Liang Yee swordplay and Wah San's Reverse Liang Yee sabreplay. Cheung Mo Gei beat them because the practitioners were only able to express ~60% of the techniques' power (whether the physical moves, strength or combination) whereas he was 90%+

The Central Plains techniques were actually superior in JY's own narrative.

[hentaixp]

Indeed. Even Kin Kwun Dai Loy Yee was considered inferior to Kwun Lun's Liang Yee swordplay and Wah San's Reverse Liang Yee sabreplay. Cheung Mo Gei beat them because the practitioners were only able to express ~60% of the techniques' power (whether the physical moves, strength or combination) whereas he was 90%+

The Central Plains techniques were actually superior in JY's own narrative.

kin kwun dai loy yee was considered inferior ??? unbelievable

[TaiHan]

Now this make us think about Damo(Indian) and his YJJ.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Well, according to legend, "all martial arts form sprang forth from Shaolin".

Also, gotta take into consideration that the Indians have often been generally viewed as a spiritually enlightened people by the Chinese, due to India being the root of Buddhism. Consequently, they usually aren't considered part of the "barbarians" which Chinese refer to when they talk about non-Chinese. Thus, it's probably simply the martial arts of the comparatively 'unenlightened' places that are inferior.

[SkineePanda]

I think that Guo Xiang was more impressed with his musical, poetry and chess skills.

[hentaixp]

i hate to say this but japanese sword fighting has more killer impact than chinese's

[Ken Cheng]

i hate to say this but japanese sword fighting has more killer impact than chinese's

Real Japanese swordfighting vs. real Chinese swordfighting? Yeah.

Real Japanese swordfighting vs. *wuxia* Chinese swordfighting? Mr. Kenshin, meet Mr. Dook Goo, Mr. Yeung, Mr. Ling Wu, Mr. Sai Mun, and Mr. Yip.

[Candide]

i hate to say this but japanese sword fighting has more killer impact than chinese's

What you see today aren't what things were like hundreds of years ago.

[ToOn99]

What you see today aren't what things were like hundreds of years ago.

but it couldn't have changed so dramatically.

[Candide]

but it couldn't have changed so dramatically.

What if it could? The Japanese didn't have something called the Great Cultural Revolution or that big civil war.

[SkineePanda]

Yes, many martial artists were persecuted, humiliated, tortured, imprisoned, or even killed. Their schools were closed and vandalized. Weapons, even ancient ones, were destroyed or melted down. Many fled the mainland to Hong Kong and overseas.

[Laviathan]

but it couldn't have changed so dramatically.

Several reasons:

Japan has a tradition of warrior culture. Martial arts were regarded in high esteem. China was a Confucianist society in which civil arts were respected much more than the fighting arts.

Japanese martial culture was based on "survival of the fittest". A student has to defeat his own master in order to complete his training. Each generation would try to surpass the skill level of previous generations. In China, teachers would often hold back secrets, sometimes taking it into their graves. The level of martial arts therefore tend to deteriorate.

In Japan, the sword was seen as a holy but also deadly weapon, and the art of swordmaking was refined to perfection by combining the techniques of China, Korea and Mongolia. In China, the sword was seen as an elegant weapon often used as decoration. The art of Chinese swordmaking was slowly lost.

China experienced the Boxer Rebellion, in which many martial artists were killed by the guns of foreign troops. The Chinese population lost faith in their martial arts and saw them as outdated and useless. After modernization, Japanese martial arts schools reformed their military fighting arts into forms of individual cultivation. The Japanese martial arts went through a dramatic change, but was still preserved more or less intact.

And, like Candide said: Cultural Revolution.

But basically, Japanese sword art was already considered to be more effective than the Chinese during the Ming dynasty, centuries before Boxer Rebellion and Cultural Revolution.

[TaiHan]

In Japan, the sword was seen as a holy but also deadly weapon, and the art of swordmaking was refined to perfection by combining the techniques of China, Korea and Mongolia. In China, the sword was seen as an elegant weapon often used as decoration. The art of Chinese swordmaking was slowly lost.

I wonder is it true that the swords made during the Spring and Autumn Warring State were consider the best sword that China ever made? At least from the novels, they were described to be so.

[Laviathan]

I wonder is it true that the swords made during the Spring and Autumn Warring State were consider the best sword that China ever made? At least from the novels, they were described to be so.

Yes, it seems to be so. During the Spring and Autumn Period and Warring States Period, the people living in what we now call China was much more warlike and martial than in later generations. Great swords were still forged up until the end of the Eastern Han dynasty (the monarchs of the Three Kingdoms of Wei, Shu and Wu all possesed fabulous blades) but slowly the art died out.

[TaiHan]

ok I went read the fighting between ZWJ and those 4 people. I got the impress that the theories(method on how to fight, include method on channeling energy) of the central plain was superior to the Xi Du. I don't think it really mean internal energy cultivation.

like when GJ exchanges palms with GWM. It said that GJ's palm techniques were greater than GWM, although his inner energy were considered powerful. by it is just my guess.

[kyss of the sword]

[{quote=taihan}ok I went read the fighting between ZWJ and those 4 people. I got the impress that the theories(method on how to fight, include method on channeling energy) of the central plain was superior to the Xi Du. I don't think it really mean internal energy cultivation]

the skills from the central plains weren't 'superior' as you can't compare, just more refined. because there were more different schools of kung fu those skills had to have improved variations and transformations to compete against each other in duel situations, the skills from foreign lands were more battle suited and less for individual(duel) combat. fighting in a battle and in duel is different from each other. E.G. karate originated in india for warfare style, came to china thru damo to shaolin, passed to the peasents to fight bandits, later to japan where it was refined for one on on duel style.

[Tazzy1972]

gx was jus impressed with his all-round abilities

[kyss of the sword]

or impressed by another strange good looking older man, do her lolita thing, start getting over her crush on brother yang. he wrote a song for her, chicks get impressed by that.