Hypocrisy of the HSDS 6 Sects

[Zhuge Liang]

1) When the Shaolin Monk who uses the Dragon Claws against ZWJ he knows that his neigong & qinggong is not match for ZWJ after seeing the previous fights and his own brief exhange of blows with ZWJ. Thus he says that for a fair fight ZWJ will need to beat him with actual physical techniques rather than overcoming his Dragon Claws with shear neigong strength or dodging with qinggong. Is this a proper thing for an elder in Wulin to request of ZWJ or was it a reasonable request? Should the monk have retired from the fight the minute he had to make such a request?

2) The sneaky Hua Shan leader uses an underhand weapon to try and kill ZWJ. If he succeeded how would he have been treated by the other 6 Sects and the rest of Wulin? Would he be applauded as a hero or grudgingly accepted as a pragmatic person that saved everyone's face by removing the public obstacle they could not overcome conventionally? I'm assuming he would not be ostracized by the other Wulin Sects.

3) Whilst the Shaolin monk could request conditions for a fair fight, MieJue does not listen to pleas that her use of the Heaven Sword is unfair since no known weapons present could possibly match it. Was she pretty much defeated without a fight as well since she needed to resort to an unfair advantage?

4) Against the White Eagle King they take it in turns to wear him out as well. Is this acceptable according to wulin rules? They then do the same to ZWJ and do not cease attacking even when he is wounded. After that, could the 6 Sects really claim any moral high ground against the Ming Cult that day?

5) If the Ming Cult Elders were not wounded by Cheng Kun's sneak attack and had a series of fair fights one-on-one with ppl from the 6 Sects and won more matches, would the 6 Sects have retired or would they have attacked en-masse?

[wkeej]

i found shaolin to be full of hyprocisy as being a Buddhist sect, with mottos like protecting the weak and treating the sick, "refused" to treat the young zwj when zwj was injured.

[Yang Guo]

i found shaolin to be full of hyprocisy as being a Buddhist sect, with mottos like protecting the weak and treating the sick, "refused" to treat the young zwj when zwj was injured.

That case was more because of several personal vendettas Shaolin had with his parents and Zhang San Feng (in my humble opinion)

[Candide]

The 6 schools were full of Sith. There was only one thing the Ming cult/ZWJ could count on to hold them back: their pride. The truth was that they were all willing to wipe out the Ming cult using any mean necessary, including dirtiest tricks. However, nobody was willing to lead the pack to initiate the attack.

1) The old fart was just splitting hair but the 6 schools wouldn't have any problem with that as long as he got rid of that nosy boy.

2) Well, the bigger schools (than Hua San) would simply appreciate that he did the dirty work for them but wouldn't thank him for it directly. They would try to ignore it and pretend that they had nothing to do with it. Schools that were equal to or smaller than Hua San would congratulate him but later on would dig it up and throw it in his face if they had a dispute.

3) She had her "excuse", remember? "This is a battle to get rid of evils, not a martial art competition". It's not just the Yi Tian sword. She used her entire school against a single ZWJ, not giving a sith about the one-on-one rule in wulin fights. Bloody women.

4) Of course not. It wasn't fair at all. Only the 5 Wudang heroes had a problem with that and they were willing to retreat.

5) In that case, the 6 schools wouldn't hold back at all. It was war, after all, although their actions were the opposite of what they preached and exactly the same as what they accused the Ming cult of.

[Ian Liew]

4) Of course not. It wasn't fair at all. Only the 5 Wudang heroes had a problem with that and they were willing to retreat.

Belatedly, though.. 4th hero, 1st hero and 7th hero had already done all the dirty work before Kongdong stepped in to finish the job, and we don't even know whether 2nd and 6th had already fought before that. It took Wuji's remark before Song Yuanqiao realised what Wudang had been doing - shows that even the good people can get caught up in the heat of the moment. To his credit he did limit his challenge to strokeplay rather than all out fighting in view of Eagle King's injury, but he still did contribute to the old man's fatigue against Kongdong.

[Zhuge Liang]

2) Well, the bigger schools (than Hua San) would simply appreciate that he did the dirty work for them but wouldn't thank him for it directly. They would try to ignore it and pretend that they had nothing to do with it. Schools that were equal to or smaller than Hua San would congratulate him but later on would dig it up and throw it in his face if they had a dispute.

LMAO!!
Such faith in human nature.

[kyss of the sword]

under the wulin rules, it was fair, if the ming sect had more people, they could have taken over for white king eagle, otherwise they would have swarmed over them with their superior numbers. even through the six sects were 'righteous' they were there to kill, it doesn't make sense to show mercy to an opponent swho are injured when they were the ones who injured them. the opposition was injured but during the cause of battle. it was o.k. for the monk to challenge wuji to a battle of technique. wuji could refuse and challenge to inner strenght instead. as long as one wins , the other can't complain. the haushan leader's action would not have been accetped by the rest even through it would not stop them from killing the ming sect on grounds of it wasn't a fair win. he would have been punished within his own sect at least for ruining the sect's name. in the end, if the six sects and ming sect could have a proper match(no side injured), and ming sect wins, they would have left.

[SkineePanda]

Yeah, pretty much all six schools were being a bit evil at Brightness Peak. From the Huasha elders's ridiculous combat requests to ZWJ, to Reverend Kong Wen barking out orders to the schools to kill everyone. Even Wudang, the most righteous of them all, ended up challenging a old, injured, exhausted opponent one after another, though reluctantly. Actually at least Yu Lianzhuo spoke out for Yin Tianzheng.

[CC]

Self-righteousness tends to blur the lines of acceptable conduct.

Like Guan Yu, Zhang Fei and Liu Bei ganging up on Lu Bu. They were applauded as heroes even though it was basically Zhang Fei interfering in a 1 vs 1 match between Gongsun and Lu Bu.

[Guo Xiang]

Self-righteousness tends to blur the lines of acceptable conduct.

Like Guan Yu, Zhang Fei and Liu Bei ganging up on Lu Bu. They were applauded as heroes even though it was basically Zhang Fei interfering in a 1 vs 1 match between Gongsun and Lu Bu.

The interfering is quite fine actually. Didn't he do it to save Gongsun's life? However, the ganging up is very very unacceptable. x.x;

[Candide]

Self-righteousness tends to blur the lines of acceptable conduct.

Like Guan Yu, Zhang Fei and Liu Bei ganging up on Lu Bu. They were applauded as heroes even though it was basically Zhang Fei interfering in a 1 vs 1 match between Gongsun and Lu Bu.

I agree with the first sentence but disagree with your example. That is war, there is no rule stating that it has to be 1 v.s 1 like in wulin.

LMAO!!
Such faith in human nature.

What do you mean? I have perfect faith in human nature and I just know they would do exactly like what I said.

[CC]

But Gongsun accepted Lu Bu's 1 vs 1 challenge. So he should have to be prepared to face defeat without help.

[Candide]

He was defeated and was running away anyway, so he did accept it. I don't think he agreed that he should be killed once he's defeated. Zhang Fei's intervention was fair.

[Moinllieon]

He was defeated and was running away anyway, so he did accept it. I don't think he agreed that he should be killed once he's defeated. Zhang Fei's intervention was fair.

Was fair according to who? Let's ask Lu Bu if that 3 on 1 dandy was fair.

[Candide]

Was fair according to who? Let's ask Lu Bu if that 3 on 1 dandy was fair.

According to the rules of war: everything goes. Let me ask you: would it be fair if one general has to fight 200 soldiers?

[CC]

Look at it from this point. The whole series of events started out as a 1 vs 1 battle.

After a series of purely 1 on 1 battles with both armies standing by watching, we have Zhang Fei riding out to interfere after their side started losing too many times. Then Guan Yu and Liu Bei joining in.

In fact, it may still have been fair if Guan Yu did not join in to help ZF. When ZF rode out to yell his challenge, it was another implied 1 vs 1.

[Moinllieon]

According to the rules of war: everything goes. Let me ask you: would it be fair if one general has to fight 200 soldiers?

Which is why I think it's rather hypocritical to criticize those 6 Sects of hypocrisy when, quite plainly, everything goes anyways. The Wulin rules were always just some pretencious mumble jumble that everyone talks about but very few people actually abide by. It's all very nice and great for a good guy to cite things like "fairness", but it matters very little how fair the fight is/was when you are dead and the bad guy lives to torture another person. For example, LHC never fought fair against Tian Boguang, had he did, he would have been dead! We didn't care that he never fought fair. YG and XLN ganged up on Golden Wheel Monk and we didn't care. The 7 Freaks ganged up on Qiu Chu Ji; Xu Chong, the elder of Wu Dang had his two disciples take on LHC at the same time to test him; the monks in DaLi took on Jiu Mo Zhi 7 on 1; etc. To be honest I didn't care they weren't fighting one-on-one in any of those circumstances. You fight to win first, and if you can win fair, the more power to you, but if not, then I can't really fault anyone for trying to win unfairly.

[Candide]

I disagree. We criticize the 6 schools because they are the preachers of those very "pretencious mumble jumbles", whereas no such rule was preached by Liu-Guan-Zhang or any side in ROTK.

I don't think your examples from the novels were correct either. Surely usually it's 1 on 1 in wulin, but in certain cases, 1 on 1 actually means disrespect. Qiu Chu Ji in wulin had a very high status. His martial brother was the leader of the biggest school. The Quanzhen masters would only be behind the Greats. If one Freak challenged one Quanzhen master, it would be very arrogant and disrespectful of them, same as one Quanzhen challenging one Great.

[Moinllieon]

I disagree. We criticize the 6 schools because they are the preachers of those very "pretencious mumble jumbles", whereas no such rule was preached by Liu-Guan-Zhang or any side in ROTK.

I don't think your examples from the novels were correct either. Surely usually it's 1 on 1 in wulin, but in certain cases, 1 on 1 actually means disrespect. Qiu Chu Ji in wulin had a very high status. His martial brother was the leader of the biggest school. The Quanzhen masters would only be behind the Greats. If one Freak challenged one Quanzhen master, it would be very arrogant and disrespectful of them, same as one Quanzhen challenging one Great.

Fluid definition of what's "fair" and what's not isn't it? Well, then maybe the ganging up of the leader of the White Eagle Sect (whose name escapes me as I am indeed getting senile) out of "respect"? After all, he's the leader of a sect.

As for other cases, what do you mean about respect? The 6 monks in DaLi certainly didn't do what they did out of respect and ettiqutte, neither did YG and LXN, or LHC, etc. They did it out of desperation, they did it because it was their only chance to win.

[Candide]

Fluid definition of what's "fair" and what's not isn't it? Well, then maybe the ganging up of the leader of the White Eagle Sect (whose name escapes me as I am indeed getting senile) out of "respect"? After all, he's the leader of a sect.

I again disagree with this The Wudang heroes had very high status in wulin. They were the equals of the other school leaders (that's why they went there and ZSF didn't). They should not gang up on Yan.

As for other cases, what do you mean about respect? The 6 monks in DaLi certainly didn't do what they did out of respect and ettiqutte, neither did YG and LXN, or LHC, etc. They did it out of desperation, they did it because it was their only chance to win.

The 6 monks did it out of both: respect and desperation. The latter case: it doesn't matter: even if they weren't desperate (i.e not a dead or alive situation), they would have to do it out of respect anyway.