In HSDS, our protagonist Zhang Wuji suffered from Xuanming Palm and from the age of 10 onwards, the cold toxic energy of palm stroke flows inside his body. If he doesn't find a cure, he will certainly die. Obviously, learning the Art of Nine Yang was able to neutralize the cold energy and save Wuji. Golden Flower Granny also mentioned that she "might" have been able to help him. Other methods in the novel, including the healing skills of Hu Qingniu, could only postpone death for a short period of time, but could not save his life.
Using methods found throughout the Jin Yong Universe, what other ways are there to save Zhang Wuji? Who(martial arts master, healer etc) is able to do what Zhang Sanfeng could not?
I have thought of some crazy ideas myself, and I hope to share them here later on...
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Thread: ER: How to save Zhang Wuji?
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03-31-05, 06:32 AM #1Senior Member
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ER: How to save Zhang Wuji?
Last edited by Laviathan; 03-31-05 at 06:34 AM.
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03-31-05, 07:22 AM #2Senior Member
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Curing Zhang Wuji's Xuanming Shenzhang injury
Some, perhaps laughable, suggestions and attempts:
- Yiyang Zhi, using amount of energy needed to execute all of the Liumai Shenjian, although I won't trust Duan Yu to do the job, even when he seems to be the only one who can execute the entire Liumai Shenjian.
- Xu Zhu might be able to find something in the depths Lingjiu Gong that would help, something that did not find its way into Hu Qingniu's collection of medical texts.
- Shenzhao Gong might help because it can resuscitate the newly dead, but I am not too sure how that would work.
- Yijing Jing might work because it helped You Tanzi to thaw out after being frozen by that ice-caterpillar (bing can) thingy and taken for dead.
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03-31-05, 07:46 AM #3Senior Member
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I think Bei Ming Shen Gong might have been able to do it by converting the Xuan Ming energy into Bei Ming Zhen Qi.
Maybe Hua Gong Da Fa and Xi Xing Da Fa to a more limited extent.
In terms of martial arts, Sweeper monk is above Z3F. The rest of the Greats are not noticeably above Z3F so they might fail too. Xu Zhu with pure brute force might have been able to do it even if his medical knowledge fails. DY can use his BMSG to absorb the energy out.
Xie Shen Yi could save Ah Zhu from the Warrior Attendent Palm, maybe he could save Wuji too. Although Ah Zhu was suffering more from internal damage as opposed to toxic inner energy flow.
If 9 Yang can work, I would hazard that the following should work too
1. 9 Yin
2. Yi Jin Jing
3. Bei Ming
4. Xian Tian
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03-31-05, 09:26 AM #4Senior Member
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Hmm... Xie Muhua could not cure the people who got hit by You Tanzhi's Ice Cocoon Palm. He was only able to deduce the origin of the poison, but could not think of a way to cure it. His teacher, Su Xinghe, on the other hand was able to teach Xuzhu ways to cure the Ice Poison.
Originally Posted by CC
I agree that Yijinjing (certainly), Beiming (certainly) and Nine Yin (although difficult to cre Yin with Yin) may work. I don't know about Xiantian though, Zhang Sanfeng's Chunyang Wuji Gong failed too.
Maybe a very strange idea, but Ding Chunqiu might teach Wuji how to use the poison on other people, like the Decaying Corpse Technique, releasing one's own poison on others in order to cure oneself. Very gross, very immoral, and a bit far-fetched... What do you guys think? Will it work?對 敵 須 狠 ， 斬 草 除 根 ， 男 女 老 幼 ， 不 留 一 人
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03-31-05, 09:35 AM #5Senior Member
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Releasing poison on others
It might work, but Zhang Wuji would probably be so turned-off by the notion of harming others to save himself that he would not even start learning anything from Ding Chunqiu. Originally Posted by Laviathan
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03-31-05, 11:09 AM #6Senior Member
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I think the reason why ZSF failed was because ZWJ had no knowledge of inner energy and was too young when he was injured. As a result, his "resistance" to external energy streams transfered from ZSF and the Wudang heroes could be too high. Maybe someone who has crazy superman inner power like Xu Zhu could force his way through, but anyone who has lower inner power would struggle just like ZSF.
Yijin Jing might work but I think ZWJ wouldn't be able to learn it by himself and there was nobody in JY universe, except perhaps Sweeper Monk, who could teach him. ZWJ was able to learn 9 Yang mainly because he was taught some basic Wudang 9 Yang by ZSF (and lots about pressure points and meridians by Hu Qingniu).
Bei Ming Shengong in "suck" mode might not work, IMO. ZWJ's injuries were not like, for example, LHC's injuries, where there were streams of inner energy running like crazy in his body. Bei Ming would only work in such cases, if I understand this correctly. In ZWJ's case, his internal organs were "damaged" by the yin energy of the Xuanming palms, and there was no stream of energy running in his body that can be easily sucked out.
Let's put morality aside for the sake of the argument. I don't think ZWJ would be able to learn that technique since his inner power was almost zero. Most of Ding's poison techniques, like that Decaying Corpse one, rely on strong inner power first then channel poisons through inner power into the object (the corpse) or the victim. By the time Ding could teach ZWJ to reach a sufficient level of inner power, the boy would already be dead.Maybe a very strange idea, but Ding Chunqiu might teach Wuji how to use the poison on other people, like the Decaying Corpse Technique, releasing one's own poison on others in order to cure oneself. Very gross, very immoral, and a bit far-fetched... What do you guys think? Will it work?
That would be overkill. I reckon Yideng executing Yiyang Zhi, especially after he learnt the Sanskrit part of 9 Yin, would be able to do the trick.# Yiyang Zhi, using amount of energy needed to execute all of the Liumai Shenjian, although I won't trust Duan Yu to do the job, even when he seems to be the only one who can execute the entire Liumai Shenjian.
Since you guys seem to have doubts about 9 Yin, what about the reverse 9 Yin combined with other skills that OYF has?"Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."
"I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."
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03-31-05, 11:45 AM #7Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Laviathan
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I believe that (in the 1st edition) eating the fire-toads (which possess yang toxic energy) had neutralized the cold Xuanming poison in Wu Ji. Or was this changed in the 2nd edition?
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03-31-05, 12:12 PM #8Senior Member
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To Du Gu seeking a win
I can't remember any fire toads in HSDS, maybe they were omitted in the 2nd edition?
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03-31-05, 12:27 PM #9Senior Member
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Yes, but with Xuzhu's medical knowledge and Xiaoyao techniques, I don't think he needs to force his way through. The Life & Death Amulet was nasty enough, but Xuzhu could change Yin to Yang energy and vice versa to cure the Cave and Island people. Originally Posted by Candide
This of course, depends on which version of Yijinjing. The DGSD one is almost incomprehensible, while the SOD version seems quite easy to learn.Yijin Jing might work but I think ZWJ wouldn't be able to learn it by himself and there was nobody in JY universe, except perhaps Sweeper Monk, who could teach him. ZWJ was able to learn 9 Yang mainly because he was taught some basic Wudang 9 Yang by ZSF (and lots about pressure points and meridians by Hu Qingniu).
Uhuh, I agree the absorbing part of Beiming might not work, but Wuji might be able to acquire a massive amount of energy to protect his organs first, and then use the techniques Xuzhu practices to transform the Xuanming energy and release it.Bei Ming Shengong in "suck" mode might not work, IMO. ZWJ's injuries were not like, for example, LHC's injuries, where there were streams of inner energy running like crazy in his body. Bei Ming would only work in such cases, if I understand this correctly. In ZWJ's case, his internal organs were "damaged" by the yin energy of the Xuanming palms, and there was no stream of energy running in his body that can be easily sucked out.
Well, Ah Zhi was able to do the Decaying Corpse Technique (she taught it to You Tanzhi afterall), she was just not good enough to make it work well. So Wuji with little internal power might be able to strike some small animal to release small portions of poison first, I guess.Let's put morality aside for the sake of the argument. I don't think ZWJ would be able to learn that technique since his inner power was almost zero. Most of Ding's poison techniques, like that Decaying Corpse one, rely on strong inner power first then channel poisons through inner power into the object (the corpse) or the victim. By the time Ding could teach ZWJ to reach a sufficient level of inner power, the boy would already be dead.
Hmm, dunno... Yideng would be able to save Linghu Chong, but Wuji's problem seems more severe. Dragon Girl was poisoned too, and Yideng with full power could only contain the poison, not cure it. (ROCH Chapter 30)That would be overkill. I reckon Yideng executing Yiyang Zhi, especially after he learnt the Sanskrit part of 9 Yin, would be able to do the trick.
Combined with the Ice Jade Bed and the fish Dragon Girl ate on the bottom of the ravine, I'd say yes, it can work.Since you guys seem to have doubts about 9 Yin, what about the reverse 9 Yin combined with other skills that OYF has?對 敵 須 狠 ， 斬 草 除 根 ， 男 女 老 幼 ， 不 留 一 人
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03-31-05, 12:34 PM #10Senior Member
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I thought he couldn't cure it since he was injured by QQR? Didn't he contain it by giving her some funny egg-like pill?Dragon Girl was poisoned too, and Yideng with full power could only contain the poison, not cure it. (ROCH Chapter 30)
ZWJ had no inner energy to start with. How could he use Beiming to suck energy? Hang on I guess it could be set up so that he started sucking some willing "contributors" then went wild...Uhuh, I agree the absorbing part of Beiming might not work, but Wuji might be able to acquire a massive amount of energy to protect his organs first, and then use the techniques Xuzhu practices to transform the Xuanming energy and release it.
But the "poison" in his body wasn't real poison. It was the extreme yin energy. Ah Zhi and Ding used real poisons with inner energy boosting their effects.So Wuji with little internal power might be able to strike some small animal to release small portions of poison first, I guess."Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."
"I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."
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03-31-05, 01:00 PM #11Senior Member
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Learn Han Bing Zhang.
Ouyang Feng should be able to do it.Last edited by Dennis Chen; 03-31-05 at 01:13 PM.
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03-31-05, 01:35 PM #12Senior Member
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Maybe eating the Duan Yu toad would work too?
One thing about the Fu Shi Du (decaying corpse technique). Do you guys think using it permanently drains the user of some inner power? I don't think so or DCQ wouldn't be using it since it weakens him permanently everytime he uses it.
So would Wuji be able to use it to permanently purge the Xuan Ming poison?
Oh, I suppose learning Xuan Ming Shen Zhang might solve the problem too?
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03-31-05, 01:48 PM #13Senior Member
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Shuo Bu De told ZWJ that Fire Toads existed in Mount Chang Bo that could heal Wei Yi Xiao's shivering sensation after fire-deviation.
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03-31-05, 01:54 PM #14Senior Member
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IMO,
YJJ-seem like a harmonizing techniques, so it should be able to do it.
BeiMing- should too, since to practice it, ones must erase all past energy.
and whatever technique Wuyazi used to erase XZ energy should work also.
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03-31-05, 01:57 PM #15Senior Member
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Just suck all of ZWJ's internal energy including the Xuan min chi using Bei min shen gong or Xi Xing Da fa.
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03-31-05, 02:06 PM #16Senior Member
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Do not forget the following options :
- Sweeper Monk could easily tap ZWJ and heal all the cold toxic chi from his system
- One Finger Ping Doctor from XAJH might have a chance
- The Indian Monk from ROCH might be able to find a cure for him
- Sucking dry the snake blood that Guo Jing had in LOCH might help his immunity systems and maybe combining it with other less powerful inner power techniques would be sufficient to heal himself
- How about learning the Toad Stance ?
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03-31-05, 02:21 PM #17Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Laviathan
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Encoding: Unicode UTF-8
HSDS 1st edition (Tian Jian Long Dao)
http://hk.geocities.com/jinyongbook/sword/Chapter12.htm
Note: chapter should actually be volume!
delete ..........
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隞靽臭唬嚗撠喃拚剔甇 鳴ＸＸ喲甇餉朣嚗啗芸 楛銝唾銝銝朣堆嗆臬 擗詻隞銝剜香蝵菟嚗甇餉 嚗鈭箏振甈箔凝嚗∠祆嚗雿撠 銋靘祆甇摮銋擗鈭 嚗鈭雿嚗找ＶＸ牯靘格 嚗潸亥亦選喃喲敹 蝢嚗潭舀曆嚗敺頨恍箇怎 怎筐鈭恬撠銝餌曉函思 支韏瑚支銝嚗擐皞ｇ潸 歇嚗隞撌脖蝞⊥瘥⊥嚗銝銝璇 選砌銝嚗嗥舀憳拚悅蝢嚗隞 颱蝢單賢颱嚗撠銝餌 敺銋曆嗾瘛冽楊嚗芾雩銝銝撉券准
蝝賊鈭銝憌舀嚗銝∠望除嚗蝒 嗅嫣葉鈭銝靘嚗芾死瘣瘣嚗刻 澈隤芯箇拙剁摰隡潭部其憭抒撓 瘞港銝剜瞉∩研靘蝝臬予 圈銝蝔桃啁抬澆撖銋堆嗆批 餅航喟梧血⊥券撖瞏凋葉瘣颯 交臬虜鈭箏鈭銝鳴餅銝摮瘚銵 湔撌批撐∪頨思葉亦嚗擃抒 銝⊥賊唳嚗隞亥喳Ｚ喟梧拍車瘥 抒訾菜嚗蝝望⊥豢鳴 擃抒撖瘥颱瘨皜銝撠
etc.
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03-31-05, 03:53 PM #18Senior Member
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No, Yideng said that, if he wasn't injured by Ci'en, he would have used Yiyang + Xiantian to contain the poison for a considerable period of time. Without his full power, he had to rely on funny egg-like pill to contain the poison for a while. Originally Posted by Candide
Yep, that's what I had in mind: capture some people to feed Zhang Wuji's Beiming.ZWJ had no inner energy to start with. How could he use Beiming to suck energy? Hang on I guess it could be set up so that he started sucking some willing "contributors" then went wild...
Yes, but You Tanzhi's Ice Poison wasn't real poison either, it too was a extreme Yin energy. I know, in actual practice it will be difficult, but in theory it might work.But the "poison" in his body wasn't real poison. It was the extreme yin energy. Ah Zhi and Ding used real poisons with inner energy boosting their effects.對 敵 須 狠 ， 斬 草 除 根 ， 男 女 老 幼 ， 不 留 一 人
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03-31-05, 04:05 PM #19Senior Member
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Han Bing Zhang? Dunno if it will help. Wei Yixiao might teach Wuji to suck blood from people to sustain his own life, though. Originally Posted by Dennis Chen
Ouyang Feng alone would not be able to do it, IMO. I think it requires Wang Chongyang's internal methods, Lin Chaoying's Ice Jade Bed, Ouyang Feng's Reverse Meridian Method and the jade bee nectar plus fish found in the cold lakes below Duanchang Cliff. Yep, the entire healing system from ROCH.
Hey, I like the Duan Yu Red Toad thing. Originally Posted by CC
It might help indeed.
The user does not lose inner power, or at least not more than any normal energy attack. The practitioner absorbs poison and then releases with inner power during combat.
I don't think learning Xuanming Palm itself will help.
Oh yeah, now I remember. Originally Posted by Hanky Panky
- Sweeper Monk can do it of course. Originally Posted by Temujin
- I doubt it. Linghu Chong's problem was much easier than Wuji's and Doctor Ping still failed.
- Yes, but it will probably be something like Ice Jade Bed plus Reverse Meridian Art as used by Yang Guo on Dragon Girl.
- Doubt it. Zhang Sanfeng and the Heroes of Wudang fed Wuji the most precious and special herbs and medicine, nothing worked. Of course, the snake blood was special, but it will only be able to prolong his life, not cure his disease.
- Huh? What does the Toad Stance have to with this?
Really, come to think of it, Wuji's poison is like the Wuxia equivalent of cancer. It is extremely hard to cure.Last edited by Laviathan; 03-31-05 at 04:08 PM.
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03-31-05, 04:49 PM #20Senior Member
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Well, if Toad Stance can easily cured LMC's poison inside little YG, perhaps it could do something to ZWJ as well. After all OYF is the master of using poison. Originally Posted by Laviathan
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