The Best of Yeung Gor (from a non Yeung Gor-fan)

[wkeej]

hmm, actually i dislike yang guo. i do not know why though.
could it be because of his father? could it be because of his unconvention? could it be because that he initially believe that GJ/HR are the ones who killed his father? or could it be because he rejected all the girls directly?
on the other hand, i like the part where he fulfilled the birthday wishes of Guo Xiang. but then it could be because i adore guo xiang.

[Ken Cheng]

could it be because of his father?

Nah. He can't be blamed for stuff Yeung Hong did.

could it be because of his unconvention?

This would be fine if he didn't throw his unconventionality in other people's faces. A person can be as unconventional as he pleases (as long as he breaks no laws and commits no immoral acts in the process): it's his right and prerogative to do so. I'd prefer that he not get into my face about it.

could it be because that he initially believe that GJ/HR are the ones who killed his father?

He could have done better here, especially since he had a reputation for high IQ/EQ.

or could it be because he rejected all the girls directly?

He never should have started flirting with them anyway. This is forgivable, as it is a very common guy's weakness, but it makes his claims of pure and undivided love for Little Dragon Girl bear a slight taste of hypocrisy.

on the other hand, i like the part where he fulfilled the birthday wishes of Guo Xiang.

Yeah, that was well done, as I acknowledged in the opening post of this thread.

[Yeung Gor]

Because she's got the worst case of myopia ever, which requires the most powerful warrior of his generation to hide out in a tomb with her for eternity rather than use his vast abilities for the good of the world.

Walk a mile in her shoes before you judge her. YG and SLN both have been through alot of struggles whenever they are in the outside world. Only when they are together in the Ancient tomb they had good times. Remember when Wong Yung told her that if she and YG were to be a couple, they should isolate themselves so they wouldn't have to deal with the hatred from the world. She cares for YG so much she didn't want him to face public redicule for marrying his master. She also has the understanding that people will continue to fight no matter how much they help and there never be peace. Even in our modern time, war still wages on. The world is a sad place with alot of ignorance. Why stay in such a place? Besides, have YG not done enough for the people? Even Gwok Jing realize the vast contributing YG has given to the Han People. Do they not earn the right to enjoy the rest of their lives away in peace? Last, how do you know YG and SLN stop using their abilities to help the world? What if they moved away to some distant land and help people in another country. That's is always a possibility and perhaps why no one has ever heard from them again.

[Ken Cheng]

Walk a mile in her shoes before you judge her. YG and SLN both have been through alot of struggles whenever they are in the outside world.

Tell that to the many people they could have helped, but turned their backs on. They were the Divine Condor *Heroic* Couple. Heroism doesn't take days off.

Even Jin Yong recognized this as a problem, and in HSDS Ed. 3, he indicated that Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl continued to fight for justice for many years after the end of ROCH. That gives me one fewer thing to complain about them for (a big one, in fact). But in Ed. 1 and Ed. 2, this was always a sticking point for a number of fans.

[Candide]

One of the things I don't like about him is that the guy seemed to just snap whenever someone said something about his father or his gugu. In those occasions, I feel like telling him him "Grow up, FFS!". He acted like a school kid thrown into the adult world.

[wkeej]

thanks, Ken.
that's why i am leaving this thread. continue the unconventional debate though.

[Yeung Gor]

Tell that to the many people they could have helped, but turned their backs on. They were the Divine Condor *Heroic* Couple. Heroism doesn't take days off.

Even Jin Yong recognized this as a problem, and in HSDS Ed. 3, he indicated that Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl continued to fight for justice for many years after the end of ROCH. That gives me one fewer thing to complain about them for (a big one, in fact). But in Ed. 1 and Ed. 2, this was always a sticking point for a number of fans.

People gave them that title as the Divine Condor *Heroic* Couple. I don't think YG ever thought of himself as a hero nor intended to live a life as a hero. He always respect GJ as the true people's Hero. Regardless, both YG and SLN still help people whenever they can. Two people can only do so much. Instead of hating them for not doing more, why not appreciate what they have done.

Let me ask you this Ken. Base on your reason why you hate YG and SLN, you should hate the other Greats more since they did way less in comparison and they too have great skills. So do you in fact hate the other Greats? I dont think you can honestly say yes.

[Ken Cheng]

Let me ask you this Ken. Base on your reason why you hate YG and SLN, you should hate the other Greats more since they did way less in comparison and they too have great skills. So do you in fact hate the other Greats? I dont think you can honestly say yes.

No, but of the six men who had been known as Greats prior to Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor, only two were singled out as heroes. Yau Chui Gei had this discussion with Gwok Jing at the end of LOCH.

East Heretic Wong Yerk See - Not a hero. Too egotistical and eccentric. Principled, but not in a way that was consistent with society.

West Poison Au Yeung Fung - Obviously not a hero. A miscreant.

South Emperor Deun Chi Hing - A good man, but not a hero. Withdrew from worldly affairs over personal issues that he could have and should have confronted.

North Beggar Hung 7 Gung - Finally, a bona fide hero. Defeated hundreds of menaces, led the Beggar's Union against the Jin invaders, and saved countless lives. Yau Chui Gei believed that Hung 7 Gung deserved to win the Second Mt. Hua Sword Tournament for this reason alone.

Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung - Hero. First led Sung army against Jin invaders. After that failed, moped around for a time in the Ancient Tomb, but came out of it and founded the Cheun Jen Sect, instructing his followers to uphold justice and protect the country.

Central Mischief Chow Bak Tung - Not a hero. Immature. Irresponsible. Will help people if it's fun.

[i_fotted]

The greats were not in the same class. GJ and YG were blessed with good fortunes, they were phenoms, heroes. Other heroes carry the load and responsibility of their country on their back while his only desire is to hide in a cave with his girl. Do you think GJ and HY not love each other? At the end of LOCH they fought the Mongols till the very end knowing there was no chance they could come out victorious.

YG has done many good deeds, but IMO most of them are off guilt. He is selfish and the only thing he cares about is XLN, and nothing else matters. If anyone offends her, he'd go crazy. Its annoying to me how he prioritize her.

[Ken Cheng]

YG has done many good deeds, but IMO most of them are off guilt.

Well, not exactly. He did have a good heart and generally wanted to help people. Sometimes (as in the case with the Mo Brothers), he was even able to override Little Dragon Girl to do what was right. Still, I only trust him to do this 50% of the time.

[Yeung Gor]

Are you guys Americans by any chance? If so, I would hate to see you supporting your troops in Iraq. If they come home from their service, I bet you guys would be waiting for them holding signs that reads "Go back and do MORE! Heroes takes no breaks!" and you guys will keep doing this until they get themselves killed. Only after their death, you guys will honor their contribution from what I'm gathering here. :P

[i_fotted]

Well, not exactly. He did have a good heart and generally wanted to help people. Sometimes (as in the case with the Mo Brothers), he was even able to override Little Dragon Girl to do what was right. Still, I only trust him to do this 50% of the time.

He only did that knowing that he was going to die eventually. That didnt impress me much.

[Ken Cheng]

Are you guys Americans by any chance? If so, I would hate to see you supporting your troops in Iraq. If they come home from their service, I bet you guys would be waiting for them holding signs that reads "Go back and do MORE! Heroes takes no breaks!" and you guys will keep doing this until they get themselves killed. Only after their death, you guys will honor their contribution from what I'm gathering here. :P

I'm American. I don't support the war in Iraq, although I do respect the soldiers who are carrying out the duties they've been sworn to carry out.

And comparing wuxia superheroes to people in the real world doesn't make for a very effective argument. Because of their extraordinary abilities (and their fictitious nature), wuxia heroes are going to be held to a higher standard than flesh and blood mortals of the real world. That's just the way the ball bounces. Nobody expects anyone to have averted the 9/11 disaster in the real world, but if Superman existed in our world and he failed to stop 9/11 because he was off making eyes with Lois Lane...well, let's just say the Man of Steel would have a very nasty stain on his reputation.

Additionally, there's no reason that a loving couple can't enjoy each other's company AND carry out their responsibilities to the world at the same time. Didn't Gwok Jing and Wong Yung do just that for several decades, up to the time of their deaths?

[Yeung Gor]

No, but of the six men who had been known as Greats prior to Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor, only two were singled out as heroes. Yau Chui Gei had this discussion with Gwok Jing at the end of LOCH.

East Heretic Wong Yerk See - Not a hero. Too egotistical and eccentric. Principled, but not in a way that was consistent with society.

West Poison Au Yeung Fung - Obviously not a hero. A miscreant.

South Emperor Deun Chi Hing - A good man, but not a hero. Withdrew from worldly affairs over personal issues that he could have and should have confronted.

North Beggar Hung 7 Gung - Finally, a bona fide hero. Defeated hundreds of menaces, led the Beggar's Union against the Jin invaders, and saved countless lives. Yau Chui Gei believed that Hung 7 Gung deserved to win the Second Mt. Hua Sword Tournament for this reason alone.

Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung - Hero. First led Sung army against Jin invaders. After that failed, moped around for a time in the Ancient Tomb, but came out of it and founded the Cheun Jen Sect, instructing his followers to uphold justice and protect the country.

Central Mischief Chow Bak Tung - Not a hero. Immature. Irresponsible. Will help people if it's fun.

Since you answer No. There has to be another reason why you hate YG and SLN. It doesn't make any sense. Looks like YG and SLN would be better off not helping anyone and be like some of the Greats and just roam the world in stealth mode and not give a care about other people or the country. So what is the real reason Ken?

[i_fotted]

Are you guys Americans by any chance? If so, I would hate to see you supporting your troops in Iraq. If they come home from their service, I bet you guys would be waiting for them holding signs that reads "Go back and do MORE! Heroes takes no breaks!" and you guys will keep doing this until they get themselves killed. Only after their death, you guys will honor their contribution from what I'm gathering here. :P

Not exactly, since im not blessed with super power. Otherwise i'd attempt to accomplish things that would help this world also. I know its easier said than done but we are talking about a fictional noval here. Its not too much to ask from a bonified, legendary, close to invincible, martial art expert.

P.S. for reference im Vietnamese-American

[Ken Cheng]

There has to be another reason why you hate YG and SLN. It doesn't make any sense. So what is the real reason Ken?

It's very easy. Both of them are irritating personalities who, in my opinion, aren't always worth admiring. They have their good points (well, Yeung Gor does, anyway), but not enough to justify some of the fawning they receive from the other characters in the novel and from some readers out here on Earth-Real.

Not all the Greats were heroes, but not all of them were put on a pedestal as heroes either. Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl were put on pedestals as heroes. Whether they like it or not, they got there, so they might as well live up to it or lose it.

[i_fotted]

Also, you mentioned the greats. But take their age in consideration. YG and XLN were in their prime. I'm sure the greats did alot of things when they were in their prime also, they were 50is during LOCH and 90ish during ROCH(correct me if im wrong, just an estimate). Yet, HYS still lead an army at the end of ROCH using his formations. At the end of LOCH he encouraged GJ to do the right thing and go battle the mongols. He told him, a true hero defends his country. Everyone knows how selfish HYS is and yet he encouraged HY and GJ to go.

[Yeung Gor]

I'm American. I don't support the war in Iraq, although I do respect the soldiers who are carrying out the duties they've been sworn to carry out.

And comparing wuxia superheroes to people in the real world doesn't make for a very effective argument. Because of their extraordinary abilities (and their fictitious nature), wuxia heroes are going to be held to a higher standard than flesh and blood mortals of the real world. That's just the way the ball bounces. Nobody expects anyone to have averted the 9/11 disaster in the real world, but if Superman existed in our world and he failed to stop 9/11 because he was off making eyes with Lois Lane...well, let's just say the Man of Steel would have a very nasty stain on his reputation.

Additionally, there's no reason that a loving couple can't enjoy each other's company AND carry out their responsibilities to the world at the same time. Didn't Gwok Jing and Wong Yung do just that for several decades, up to the time of their deaths?

So how come there is no hate for the other Greats who has great abilities. Do you not hold them in higher regards? Seems like you just respect their personality and decision to live their lives the way they want to. But for YG, who again I mention never intended to be a hero only did what in his heart was good but he too has another side of him where he wants to be with SLN in seclusion. Why not respect YG's personality like you do with the other Greats? At least YG did kill Mongol Khan. And help many people around him. Why not be happy he contributed and not be totally selfish and leave with SLN when they reunited. They could have gone away to seclusion directly after that but they chose to go and save Guo Xiang and help GJ. Instead of honoring their heroic deeds, you put them down for not wanting to lead full hero lives. Again accept them for who they are like you do with the other Greats. YG and SLN never intended to be life-time heroes, they always wanted to be live happy lives together in seclusion. But the fact they still take time to do good deeds unlike other Greats are qualities we should like them for and not dislike them for. Don't you think?

[Ken Cheng]

Also, you mentioned the greats. But take their age in consideration. YG and XLN were in their prime. I'm sure the greats did alot of things when they were in their prime also, they were 50is during LOCH and 90ish during ROCH(correct me if im wrong, just an estimate). Yet, HYS still lead an army at the end of ROCH using his formations. At the end of LOCH he encouraged GJ to do the right thing and go battle the mongols. He told him, a true hero defends his country. Everyone knows how selfish HYS is and yet he encouraged HY and GJ to go.

East Heretic Wong Yerk See was something of a closet patriot. He cared very much about the state of his country, but it didn't amount to much because he too didn't do diddly about it. Should he have? Probably, yes. He didn't, though, and that's one reason why Yau Chui Gei judged him "not a hero".

[Ken Cheng]

So how come there is no hate for the other Greats who has great abilities. Do you not hold them in higher regards? Seems like you just respect their personality and decision to live their lives the way they want to. But for YG, who again I mention never intended to be a hero only did what in his heart was good but he too has another side of him where he wants to be with SLN in seclusion. Why not respect YG's personality like you do with the other Greats?

Read the following post I made about pedestals and people who end up on them. People get often get onto them for good reason, but they don't stay up there unless their actions consistently merit their staying up there. You may counter that Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl never asked to be put on a pedestal. Fine. Others, then, have no obligation to continue putting them up there when they don't merit it.