The Best of Yeung Gor (from a non Yeung Gor-fan)

[Ken Cheng]

In any case, this is all moot because as I stated earlier, Jin Yong has revised HSDS Ed. 3 to give Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl a much more satisfactory ending. We now know that they continued to be active in wulin (although lower in profile) in the years right up to the fall of Seung Yeung. So it probably doesn't matter anymore.

I submit, however, that Jin Yong himself must have felt there was something not quite right about that original ending if he decided to make this particular revision after so many years.

[yittz]

All hans should take part in resisting Mongol invasion/domination, whereas not all Americans support or should support the idea of invading Iraq.

Different situation - GJ/YG defending against invasion is different from GJ/YG helping to attack another nation (even if they do skirmish attacks). (from non-american)

Back to the 'best of YG' which is now back to 'what i don't like about YG:

Shouldnt blame YG for suspecting GJ/HR for killing his father, afterall HR did play an important role in his downfall - i.e. without HR, YK may still be alive. Although I do not support it, YG does have a right to avenge his father by killing HR. Yes its the wrong thing to do, but in the past avenging one's father is held in high regard.

If YG was told clearly about what happened to his father, he would not have got himself and others into the same amount of trouble. GJ/HR/MNC is partly to blame for that. The turning point in the story, where YG's attitude change, is when he found out about his father's death from the blind bat - he did not go around slaying GJ/HR, but just accepted it and tried to repent his father's wrongs.

Sure you can blame YG, for not trying harder to find out. But remember HR is smarter, and she should be able to read the mind of YG. If she is so intelligent why can't she figure out that it's better to let YG know the truth, why did she let her emotion take control (seeing he looks like YK)? And how is YG meant to find out? GJ is absolute useless at communication (unless you count shouting from roof tops) and HR easily outwitting YG and keep him in the dark. OYF is crazy. Sha Gu told him little bits, but her cognitive ability is limited. How is he meant to know who was there that day?

[Yeung Gor]

Read the following post I made about pedestals and people who end up on them. People get often get onto them for good reason, but they don't stay up there unless their actions consistently merit their staying up there. You may counter that Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl never asked to be put on a pedestal. Fine. Others, then, have no obligation to continue putting them up there when they don't merit it.

Yup, YG and SLN never intended to be place on the pedestal. They can't help it if their deeds made them heroic legends. Like you said, they either should live up to it or drop it. And since they never wanted it, they in fact did drop it by living the rest of their lives in seclusion. Why do you still hate on them for it?

[Ken Cheng]

Shouldnt blame YG for suspecting GJ/HR for killing his father, afterall HR did play an important role in his downfall - i.e. without HR, YK may still be alive. Although I do not support it, YG does have a right to avenge his father by killing HR. Yes its the wrong thing to do, but in the past avenging one's father is held in high regard.

If YG was told clearly about what happened to his father, he would not have got himself and others into the same amount of trouble. GJ/HR/MNC is partly to blame for that. The turning point in the story, where YG's attitude change, is when he found out about his father's death from the blind bat - he did not go around slaying GJ/HR, but just accepted it and tried to repent his father's wrongs.

Sure you can blame YG, for not trying harder to find out. But remember HR is smarter, and she should be able to read the mind of YG. If she is so intelligent why can't she figure out that it's better to let YG know the truth, why did she let her emotion take control (seeing he looks like YK)? And how is YG meant to find out? GJ is absolute useless at communication (unless you count shouting from roof tops) and HR easily outwitting YG and keep him in the dark. OYF is crazy. Sha Gu told him little bits, but her cognitive ability is limited. How is he meant to know who was there that day?

For this, I actually blame Gwok Jing, Wong Yung, and all the others who knew the truth about how Yeung Hong lived and died for not telling Yeung Gor sooner. I think they all failed Yeung Gor here. Their intentions were good: they thought that by telling him the truth about his father, they'd be forcing him to confront a very unpleasant reality about his origins. The thing is, however, he was going to need to confront this reality sooner or later anyway. And look at how miserable his life was because his elders didn't have the fortitude to tell him the truth.

If Gwok Jing, Wong Yung, Yau Chui Gei, or SOMEBODY had told Yeung Gor the truth when he was 13 rather than when he was 36, I think his life would have been different and better. It would have been hard to take at first, sure, but better than what ended up actually happening in ROCH when nobody told him until he was in his 30s.

[Ken Cheng]

Why do you still hate on them for it?

Because they still get put on this pedestal despite no longer meriting it. Isn't this discussion going in circles?

[Yeung Gor]

In any case, this is all moot because as I stated earlier, Jin Yong has revised HSDS Ed. 3 to give Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl a much more satisfactory ending. We now know that they continued to be active in wulin (although lower in profile) in the years right up to the fall of Seung Yeung. So it probably doesn't matter anymore.

I submit, however, that Jin Yong himself must have felt there was something not quite right about that original ending if he decided to make this particular revision after so many years.

I personally like the original ending. It makes more sense. But I understand JY just want you guys to stop bugging him.

[Yeung Gor]

Because they still get put on this pedestal despite no longer meriting it. Isn't this discussion going in circles?

Yea, we'll end it here. Just remember Ken. It's not YG and SLN fault. I rather they did what they did and earn the heroic titles than not doing anything at all.

[Yeung Gor]

Also, you mentioned the greats. But take their age in consideration. YG and XLN were in their prime. I'm sure the greats did alot of things when they were in their prime also, they were 50is during LOCH and 90ish during ROCH(correct me if im wrong, just an estimate). Yet, HYS still lead an army at the end of ROCH using his formations. At the end of LOCH he encouraged GJ to do the right thing and go battle the mongols. He told him, a true hero defends his country. Everyone knows how selfish HYS is and yet he encouraged HY and GJ to go.

In Wuxia, the older you get usually the more powerful you can get. I know getting older has it physical drawbacks but it's nothing compare to the added years of power/skill harvesting. So age is no excuse to not make contribution in a time of crisis.

[Ken Cheng]

In Wuxia, the older you get usually the more powerful you can get. I know getting older has it physical drawbacks but it's nothing compare to the added years of power/skill harvesting.

This is true up to a point. Once you start approaching the triple digits, it's really beginning to push it. This is why Cheung Mo Gei under no circumstances wanted to summon his Grandteacher Cheung 3 Fung to help him defeat the three Do-class Shaolin Elder monks and liberate Tse Tsun. Cheung Mo Gei knew that his Grandteacher had the skill, power, and experience to do it, but at that advanced age, it would only be at great risk to Cheung 3 Fung's life.

[Yeung Gor]

This is true up to a point. Once you start approaching the triple digits, it's really beginning to push it. This is why Cheung Mo Gei under no circumstances wanted to summon his Grandteacher Cheung 3 Fung to help him defeat the three Do-class Shaolin Elder monks and liberate Tse Tsun. Cheung Mo Gei knew that his Grandteacher had the skill, power, and experience to do it, but at that advanced age, it would only be at great risk to Cheung 3 Fung's life.

That I agree. They are still human. This brings me to the question - How old are the Greats anyways at the end of ROCH?

[Ken Cheng]

That I agree. They are still human. This brings me to the question - How old are the Greats anyways at the end of ROCH?

Some were older and some were younger (all of them were as old as dirt by that time, however...even Yeung Gor, the youngest of the five, was 36 or thereabouts by then). Of the seniors, I believe Wong Yerk See was the youngest. I don't know who was older between Chow Bak Tung and 1 Deng, however.

[i_fotted]

In Wuxia, the older you get usually the more powerful you can get. I know getting older has it physical drawbacks but it's nothing compare to the added years of power/skill harvesting. So age is no excuse to not make contribution in a time of crisis.

I think they can get more powerful, but the mental stress of leading an army at that age is a different story. I really think the age does play a role. Are you sure they can get stronger after they reach their 60s? I know we usually get weaker after we reach our 30s so I would assume the greats would be able to double our age before their power start to decline.

I think the greats at the end of ROCH is around 100.

[yittz]

Yeah I was wondered about the age.

YG 36
GJ 56

How old were the five original greats and ZBT?

When did HYS have HR?

[Candide]

ZBT was over 90 and the rest were 80 something. It was written that their inner power got purer and more refined (same as their skills) but weren't as powerful and their stamina had deteriorated.

[Wu Nianci]

Anyone who's been paying attention at this forum during the past few years knows that I'm not much of a Yeung Gor fan. Generally speaking, I've found him one of the more irritating personalities I've ever been acquainted with...both in fiction *and* in real life. Nevertheless, it's not all bad news all the time. There were moments in RETURN OF THE CONDOR HEROES when Yeung Gor won even me over. Here's a look at some of my favorite Yeung Gor moments:


1. Making Peace Between North Beggar and West Poison: At the point when they killed each other at Mt. Hua, there was probably no avoiding the deaths of North Beggar Hung 7 Gung and West Poison Au Yeung Fung. It just seemed destined to end that way, although Yeung Gor did his best to prevent it. I doubt that even the Janitor Monk could've prevented Hung 7 Gung and Au Yeung Fung from killing each other at that point (well, maybe the Janitor Monk could have, but you can't blame Yeung Gor for not being the Janitor Monk). Yeung Gor did succeed in helping Hung 7 Gung and Au Yeung Fung to bury the hatchet between them and make peace with each other prior to their deaths, and by learning their martial arts, Yeung Gor ensured that their legacies would endure.

2. Preventing Wong Yung From Having A Miscarriage: Wong Yung damn near had a miscarriage at Luk Manor, and she probably would have lost her babies (maybe even her life) if Yeung Gor hadn't intervened. The thing is: she was chewing him out for having "stolen" the Dog Beating Stick Technique at the time (which was untrue), but he set that aside to do the right thing anyway.

3. Defeating Fok Do at the Heroes Conference at Luk Manor: Yeung Gor saved face for the entire Chinese wulin here, but just as importantly, I like the way in which he did it. He pulled the whole thing off with humor and style, ridiculing the Mongols and having fun while getting Chinese wulin out of a fix. Yeung Gor was always at his best when he was being light-hearted and not taking himself too seriously. He had fun defeating Fok Do and it was fun to watch him do it.

4. Defending Gwok Family and Seung Yeung Fortress: This one is somewhat compromised by the fact that it was because of Yeung Gor that Gwok Jing got injured in the first place. Nevertheless, Yeung Gor was the main reason that things worked out all right in the end. You need to admire his resourcefulness too: in terms of martial arts and sheer number of enemies, Yeung Gor was *way* outclassed here...but he used his wits to fend off multiple threats (Golden Wheel Monk, Mongol mercenaries, Lee Mok Sau) and save the Gwoks and Seung Yeung Fortress.

5. Saving the Lives of Mo Brothers: This one always gets overlooked, but I think it's one of Yeung Gor's greatest moments. First, he stops the brothers from killing each other. Then, after the brothers are poisoned by Lee Mok Sau's needles, he saves their lives again. There he was, dying of Passion Flower Poisoning, so what did he do? He chose to sacrifice what would have been the last three days of his life to save the lives of two guys who'd never been kind to him. Knowing Yeung Gor, he probably would have preferred to spend the final three days of his life with Little Dragon Girl. He gave that up to save the Mo Brothers. I'd count this as one of his finest moments.

6. Forgiving Gwok Fu for Cutting Off His Arm: Nobody in the story or reading the story would have blamed Yeung Gor for cutting off Gwok Fu's arm in retaliation for her unwarranted attack on him. Heck, even Gwok Jing was prepared to cut off Gwok Fu's arm as retribution for what she had done. Yeung Gor had his chance to avenge the loss of his arm, but passed it up because he couldn't bring himself harm his Uncle Gwok's child. Yeung Gor sometimes gets criticized for having not cut off Gwok Fu's arm, but I think that along with # 5, this was another one of his finest moments.

7. Sixteen Years As the Divine Condor Hero: I'm glad he did something productive and useful with his time while waiting for Little Dragon Girl instead of sitting around moping.

8. Fixed Relationship Between Chow Bak Tung and Ying Goo: The Tragedy of Chow Bak Tung and Ying Goo was in its sixth decade by the time Yeung Gor got involved, but Yeung Gor was the one who finally got things set right. Chow Bak Tung and Ying Goo were happily reunited and the scales were balanced among Chow Bak Tung, Ying Goo, 1 Deng, and Kau Cheen Yan at last. Yeung Gor should play peacemaker more often.

9. Gwok Seung's Birthday Gala/Securing Yeh Lut Chai's Beggar's Union Chiefdom/Killing Fok Do/Banishing Dat Yee Ba/Torching Mongol Base Camp: It doesn't get much better than this. Yeung Gor accomplished ALOT this night. First, you've got to like a guy who would go to the lengths that Yeung Gor did to make a youngster happy on her birthday. In doing so, however, Yeung Gor also took care of some important serious business. He killed Fok Do, saving Gwok Fu's life and securing the Beggar's Union Chief position for Yeh Lut Chai. At the same time, Yeung Gor also banished Dat Yee Ba to Tibet, removing yet another threat from the Mongol arsenal. To top it all off, he and his associates torched the nearby Mongol base camp, putting yet another monkey wrench into the Mongols' plans to attack Seung Yeung. In that one night, Yeung Gor made up for nearly all of his father Yeung Hong's crimes and redeemed the Yeung family name. Not bad for a day's work.

10. Rescuing Gwok Seung From the Golden Wheel Monk/Killing Mongke Khan: ...and the coup d'grace. Yeung Gor's double masterpiece of rescuing Gwok Seung from the Golden Wheel Monk and then going on to kill the Mongol Khan Mongke, thereby securing the safety of Seung Yeung Fortress for another thirteen years. Of the three CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY leads, Yeung Gor had the most spectacular end to his story. Gwok Jing's telling off of Genghis Khan at the end of LEGEND OF THE CONDOR HEROES was great, but didn't come close to this. Cheung Mo Gei's leadership of the Chinese wulin against the Mongol troops attacking Shaolin Temple in HEAVEN SWORD & DRAGON SABRE wasn't quite as glorious because he was just another face in the crowd in the whole operation.

So from a guy who generally doesn't like Yeung Gor much, here are ten moments of his I did like. Don't say I don't give him credit where credit is due.

Hahaha... I actually like Yang Guo he's my favourite character in the Condor Trilogy... well, maybe one of my favourites. Ok, I know you might not like him... but please just tell me you don't like Guo Jing better than him:s.

[Ken Cheng]

Hahaha... I actually like Yang Guo he's my favourite character in the Condor Trilogy... well, maybe one of my favourites. Ok, I know you might not like him... but please just tell me you don't like Guo Jing better than him:s.

Sorry. Gwok Jing is my favorite Jin Yong character and I deeply identify with him and strongly share many of his values.

That's the way it is and has to be.

[Wu Nianci]

Sorry. Gwok Jing is my favorite Jin Yong character and I deeply identify with him and strongly share many of his values.

That's the way it is and has to be.

Oh well... everyone has their own opinions... I'm still a Yang Guo supporter:s.