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Thread: HSDS: QKDNY collects stroke force

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    Senior Member Du Gu seeking a win's Avatar
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    Default HSDS: QKDNY collects stroke force

    Duel ZWJ vs Fan Yao (HSDS chapter 26)


    张无忌听到风声,知道这一掌真力充沛,非同小可,有意试一试他的内力,右掌回转,硬碰硬的接了他这掌,左足 这才着地。霎时之间,苦头陀 掌上真力源源催至。
    张无忌运起乾坤大挪移心法中第七层功夫,将他掌力渐渐积蓄,突然间 大喝一声,反震出去,便如一座大湖在山洪爆发时储满了洪水,猛地里湖堤崩决,洪水急冲 而出,将苦头陀送来的掌力尽数倒回。这是将对方十余掌的力道归并成为一掌拍出,世上原 无如此大力。
    若头陀倘若受实了,势须立时腕骨、臂骨、肩骨、肋骨一齐折断,连血也喷不
    出来,当场成为一团血肉模糊,死得惨不可言。此时双掌相粘,苦头陀万难闪避。
    张无忌左手抓住他胸口往上一抛,苦头陀一个庞大的身躯向上飞起,砰的一声巨响,乱石横飞,这一
    掌威力无俦的掌力,尽数打在乱石堆里。
    杨逍和韦一笑在旁看到这等声势,齐声惊呼出来。
    他二人只道苦头陀和教主比拚内力,至少也得一盏茶时分方能分出高下,哪料到片刻之间,
    便到了决生死的关头。
    二人心中虽有话说,却已不及言讲,待见苦头陀平安无恙的落下,手心中都已捏了一把冷汗。


    In HSDS 2nd edition, during ZWJ's duel with Fan Yao (the other guardian of Ming Jiao), WuJi collected the force of 10 palm strokes of FY using QKDNY (in the 1st edition it was 20 palm strokes) and launching the collected force back to FY, he still had time to save FY.

    What if in a duel against Xiao Feng or Yang Guo, he (ZWJ) collected, say, just two palm strokes of them and send it back?

    Someone (IIRC Candide) said here that QKDNY can only be used against 'opponents with lesser neigong'. Could he (or any other person) show the appropriate text passage in the book? Where did JY say that?
    Last edited by Du Gu seeking a win; 10-05-05 at 01:18 PM.

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    Senior Member qiaofeng's Avatar
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    i doubt he can even send back yang guo's sad palm. if he tries to collect and return to sender qiaofengs dragon palm, hes gonna fail and get blasted to bits. even murong bo cant reflect qiaofengs dragon palms back

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugu Seeking Win
    he still had time to save FY.
    Which was beyond belief! Unless JY amended that part in the 3rd edition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dugu Seeking Win
    What if in a duel against Xiao Feng or Yang Guo, he (ZWJ) collected, say, just two palm strokes of them and send it back?
    Thatís if he doesnít get badly bruised up on the way. FY's palms were kinda weak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Du Gu seeking a win
    Duel ZWJ vs Fan Yao (HSDS chapter 26)


    张无忌听到风声,知道这一掌真力充沛,非同小可,有意试一试他的内力,右掌回转,硬碰硬的接了他这掌,左足 这才着地。霎时之间,苦头陀 掌上真力源源催至。
    张无忌运起乾坤大挪移心法中第七层功夫,将他掌力渐渐积蓄,突然间 大喝一声,反震出去,便如一座大湖在山洪爆发时储满了洪水,猛地里湖堤崩决,洪水急冲 而出,将苦头陀送来的掌力尽数倒回。这是将对方十余掌的力道归并成为一掌拍出,世上原 无如此大力。
    若头陀倘若受实了,势须立时腕骨、臂骨、肩骨、肋骨一齐折断,连血也喷不
    出来,当场成为一团血肉模糊,死得惨不可言。此时双掌相粘,苦头陀万难闪避。
    张无忌左手抓住他胸口往上一抛,苦头陀一个庞大的身躯向上飞起,砰的一声巨响,乱石横飞,这一
    掌威力无俦的掌力,尽数打在乱石堆里。
    杨逍和韦一笑在旁看到这等声势,齐声惊呼出来。
    他二人只道苦头陀和教主比拚内力,至少也得一盏茶时分方能分出高下,哪料到片刻之间,
    便到了决生死的关头。
    二人心中虽有话说,却已不及言讲,待见苦头陀平安无恙的落下,手心中都已捏了一把冷汗。


    In HSDS 2nd edition, during ZWJ's duel with Fan Yao (the other guardian of Ming Jiao), WuJi collected the force of 10 palm strokes of FY using QKDNY (in the 1st edition it was 20 palm strokes) and launching the collected force back to FY, he still had time to save FY.

    What if in a duel against Xiao Feng or Yang Guo, he (ZWJ) collected, say, just two palm strokes of them and send it back?

    Someone (IIRC Candide) said here that QKDNY can only be used against 'opponents with lesser neigong'. Could he (or any other person) show the appropriate text passage in the book? Where did JY say that?
    I have always been skeptical about the claim that QKDNY can only work if a person has lesser internal power than one--but then again, I haven't read the entire hsds story. I've always thought that one needs a baseline of neigong to practice it. Each level has a certain minimum requirement. WJ was able to reach level 7 because of his immense neigong. I can't see why he cannot use it against someone stronger than him. The theory is akin to 4 ounces moving a thousand catties. Should work.

    I think that WJ has at least 1% more neigong than YG or QF. If they were to engage one on one, he will be able to collect their palm strikes and I'm afraid YG and QF will turn to mush when he gives them 10 times what they try to give him.

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Well, I've mentioned before about my own doubts that QKDNY won't work against people with greater internal energy.

    Of course, no one wants to believe that despite there not really being any contrary evidence.

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    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    On, QKDLY, is it really ineffective "if" the person have a higher internal energy or equal? Because a palm strike of a person may differ greatly even if two person had the same amount of internal energy. One may used a heavily yin palm and the other may use a hard base technique. For example, a person with slightly more powerful energy then XF probably can pull off a blow quite as powerful as his XL18Z. MRF is not lower to XF in the interal energy department, but he wasn't able to turn XF's XL18Z force 90 degree against him with his Reversing Star. The scenario might play out differently if XF sent out just a plain palm even though XF's internal energy didn't fluctuate.
    Last edited by superboy; 10-05-05 at 07:35 PM.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

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    Quote Originally Posted by lthlth
    I have always been skeptical about the claim that QKDNY can only work if a person has lesser internal power than one--but then again, I haven't read the entire hsds story. I've always thought that one needs a baseline of neigong to practice it. Each level has a certain minimum requirement. WJ was able to reach level 7 because of his immense neigong. I can't see why he cannot use it against someone stronger than him. The theory is akin to 4 ounces moving a thousand catties. Should work.

    I think that WJ has at least 1% more neigong than YG or QF. If they were to engage one on one, he will be able to collect their palm strikes and I'm afraid YG and QF will turn to mush when he gives them 10 times what they try to give him.
    4 ounces might be able to move a thousand catties...

    BUT 4 ounces cannot meet 1000 catties coming at it straight on. 4 ounces cannot meet 10 * 1000 catties straight on, then turn it 180 degrees and shoot it back the way it came.
    I wish people would back their assertions about facts with facts.

    Just because something is your opinion, doesnt necessarily make it true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faustus1982
    4 ounces might be able to move a thousand catties...

    BUT 4 ounces cannot meet 1000 catties coming at it straight on. 4 ounces cannot meet 10 * 1000 catties straight on, then turn it 180 degrees and shoot it back the way it came.
    I agree it's much easier to divert by 1 degree than 180 degree. Luckily, WJ has the ability to store the Qi. Once he collects enough Qi reservior, he can turn it 180 degrees.

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    Yup yup.

    Son Goku could store up the Qi energy of every living being in the universe then throw a giant Genki-dama to kill the evil Shenlong.
    I wish people would back their assertions about facts with facts.

    Just because something is your opinion, doesnt necessarily make it true.

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    Default Fine....

    Even so, ZWJ's internal for example 5 years later, I believe ZWJ could move XF and YG's palm if there is a limitation of internal energy. But I personally believe that he can already move the palm strikes with a high level of QKDLY at 5,6, or 7.
    And besides, as strong as XL18Z or Sad Palm is, I don't think it's neccesary stronger than 10 palms Fan Yao.

  11. #11
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    I don't think it is to do with how much you can store, but how much single palm force you can store.

    The reason why many think QKDNY can't store XL18Z/sad palm is that if it can ZWJ would be scary. He could play soft and avoid strokes with tai chi etc, and play the endurance game in which most who we consider his level (see lav list) would lose. Or he could play the hard and eat up incoming palm, releasing a genki dama when he sees suitable. (whateva a genki dama is)

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    (whateva a genki dama is)
    Crappy Western equivalent: Spirit Bomb.

    I think Faustus1982 was being sarcastic.
    Last edited by Hanky Panky; 10-09-05 at 06:35 PM.

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    Well, ZWJ is SCARY. I honestly don't see how QKDLY cannot move XL18Z. If you guys compare it to MRF's Star stuff, you can' do that. QKDLY was stated somewhere in the book as one fo the best Western or Xi Chung kung fu.

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Right. It was also said that the martial arts of the Central Plains were clearly superior to that of the outerlying regions in the book, and an example was given when QKDNY was unable to contain and redirect the martial arts of the two front/double sword techniques at Guang Ming Ding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing
    Right. It was also said that the martial arts of the Central Plains were clearly superior to that of the outerlying regions in the book, and an example was given when QKDNY was unable to contain and redirect the martial arts of the two front/double sword techniques at Guang Ming Ding.
    I just stated in the other thread, somehow I felt like a copy-cat now.

    Anyways repeating what I said in the other thread. QKDNY have problem with Yi Jing, XL18Z being based on Yi Jing should also cause QKDNY some problem also.

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    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    Son Goku could store up the Qi energy of every living being in the universe then throw a giant Genki-dama to kill the evil Shenlong.
    hahha..lol that cracked me up.


    Cool scene BTW dugu thx.
    wow..04-08....4 years just like that..time flies..

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    Senior Member Du Gu seeking a win's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing
    Right. It was also said that the martial arts of the Central Plains were clearly superior to that of the outerlying regions in the book, and an example was given when QKDNY was unable to contain and redirect the martial arts of the two front/double sword techniques at Guang Ming Ding.
    *
    The text passage said that 'the best Central Plains wugong is better (not clearly superior) than the best wugongs of foreigners'. JY is being a little chauvinistic here

    ZWJ did suffer a blackout and forgot Bagua movements and needed ZZR to remind him.

    JY mentioned that QKDNY is the top Persian wugong and the Hua san swordplay + Kong tong sabre play are based on Bagua (top Chinese wugong), so 'the combined forces of the four persons if they were top in their wugong, should have defeated ZWJ, according to JY.

    Well, if that were the case (they being top in their wugong and the four people succeeded in defeating the single ZWJ, who would be the real victor morally be?

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    Senior Member Du Gu seeking a win's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaiHan
    I just stated in the other thread, somehow I felt like a copy-cat now.

    Anyways repeating what I said in the other thread. QKDNY have problem with Yi Jing, XL18Z being based on Yi Jing should also cause QKDNY some problem also.

    *
    You are mixing up the problem. ZWJ had problems in that fight because he forgot the Yi Jing/Bagua movements, not because QKDNY had problems with Yi Jing

    Remember the case I imagined:
    ZWJ (with his knowledge of Bagua and QKDNY) against YG or XF or GJ.

    Could you explain about your mentioning about XL18Z based on Yi Jing? Never heard about that. Or do you probably mean XL18Z enhanced through GJ's knowledge of 9Yin?

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    No, it was mentioned in LOCH that XL18Z was based off Yi Jing. All the names of seeing dragon in the field are names coming from Yi Jing.
    However, even if QKDLY is inferior as it says, it can't be TOO INFERIOR, not that far.

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    RE Dugu: The bagua concept is one of the best in China, but I think most people here would have a VERY hard time believing that the double-sword techniques themselves are the best techniques in China. Whereas QKDNY was definitely the best technique of the Persians. Even as it stood, a maxed-out Jiu-yang powered QKDNY was only able to stalemate the double-swords technique wielded by people of a MUCH lower internal energy level, until ZZR gave ZWJ guidance in the theories behind the double swords techniques.

    Not to mention, ZWJ couldn't have done beans with QKDNY if it weren't for the fact that he was immensely powered by Jiuyang, which, again, was a Chinese martial arts text.
    Last edited by Ren Wo Xing; 10-10-05 at 05:08 PM.

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