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Thread: Jin Yong vs. Alexandre Dumas....FIGHT!

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    Member UltraRob's Avatar
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    Default Jin Yong vs. Alexandre Dumas....FIGHT!

    Okay, not really...

    So, I'm just finishing up The Count of Monte Christo, which I finally got around to reading for the first time, and I read it after coming off reading a lot of translated Jin Yong works.

    All I can say is, if you could copywrite style, Jin Yong owes Alexandre Dumas Royalties!

    While the emphasis of their works is very different (Kung Fu vs. Chivalry), to say that Jin Yong was influenced by Dumas has got to be one of the biggest understatements I've ever heard. In terms of pacing, description, word choice, characterization...Jin Yong is practically Dumas's apprentice.

    Now, I am not for a second calling Jin Yong's work less that Dumas's, in fact I'd say he's equal, and at his best, maybe even better than Dumas as a writer. But I was really shocked by how close they are to each other in style and technique.

    Anyone who hasn't read The Count of Monte Christo or The Three Musketeers and is itching for their Jin Yong translation fix really needs to hit the local bookstore and read some Dumas. Especially Three Musketeers, which is filled with action, romance, sex, and is almost nothing like the pale versions of it which were censored, cut down, and made into the movies most of us know.

    Then you can wonder who would win...Yang Guo or D'Artagnan!

    Rob

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Jin Yong openly admits to being an admirer of not only Dumas, but also Charles Dickens and other classic western novelists. Being inspired by another writer isn't plagiarism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Jin Yong openly admits to being an admirer of not only Dumas, but also Charles Dickens and other classic western novelists. Being inspired by another writer isn't plagiarism.
    Actually, I wasn't accusing him of plagiarism so much as commenting that the influence is more than "slight". I know he has publically stated his admiration for the classical novelists, and perhaps that's why his work is so enjoyable, he skipped over the worst aspects of the modern English novel and kept it entertaining first and foremost instead of mired in attempts at realism.

    Rob

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Dumas' 3 Musketeers isn't that great. His idea of a hero is some pussy whipped swordsman who ran around taking orders from chicks then couldn't do jack when his chicks decided to kill each other, and his friends killed the remaining one. Ah yep, they also get their honour badge from serving a cheating queen, a traitor to the nation. It's quite funny to read, but chivalry is definitely nowhere to be seen.

    Now only if Voltaire could write a Candide version of Three Musketeers...
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    Dumas' 3 Musketeers isn't that great. His idea of a hero is some pussy whipped swordsman who ran around taking orders from chicks then couldn't do jack when his chicks decided to kill each other, and his friends killed the remaining one.
    So, a young naive fighter spends his time running around being taken advantage of by women as he slowly matures....No, I've never seen Jin Yong heroes do anything like that, have I? Remember "Three Musketeers" the book is really only the first 1/3 of the story, there are two more books to the set. He doesn't stay young and stupid.

    As for the chivalry part, I guess it depends on your ideas of chivalry. The Three Musketeers was about botherhood and loyalty to an ideal, the crown in this case. I consider those key elements of Chivalry, although I will admit our hero does have a habit of thinking with the wrong head.

    I don't think Three Musketeers was Dumas's best work, his best would be The Count of Monte Christo (which for me has been an almost life-changing book to read), but it is more action packed and might appeal more to readers here. Both are worth reading, in any case, even if all you get out of them is a laugh or an appreciation of what life was once like in France long long ago.

    Rob

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    I've read all of those. My dad was educated in French schools so he had a whole lot of French books which I started reading when I was about 5. Don't get me wrong, Dumas' books are very entertaining to read and his characters are likeable. They just don't wow me like Voltaire's do.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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    Senior Member Du Gu seeking a win's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltraRob
    Okay, not really...

    So, I'm just finishing up The Count of Monte Christo, which I finally got around to reading for the first time, and I read it after coming off reading a lot of translated Jin Yong works.

    All I can say is, if you could copywrite style, Jin Yong owes Alexandre Dumas Royalties!

    While the emphasis of their works is very different (Kung Fu vs. Chivalry), to say that Jin Yong was influenced by Dumas has got to be one of the biggest understatements I've ever heard. In terms of pacing, description, word choice, characterization...Jin Yong is practically Dumas's apprentice.

    Rob

    *
    Maybe it's nice to compile a list (here) of the scenes in Dumas's works which apparently were 'transformed' into JY's works.

    Lian Qeng Jue:
    Di Hun(?) - Ding Tian compared to Edmond Dantes - Abbe Faria in TCoMC.
    Black chrysanthemum at the window - Dumas's 'Black Tulip'


    Tian Long Ba Bu (DGSD):
    2nd Evil's realization that Xu Zhu is her son - Alexandre de Villefort at court and Mrs Danglars fainting (TCoMC)

    Anyone contributing other scenes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    They just don't wow me like Voltaire's do.
    Yes, I can see why the relatively satirical Candide would appeal to you more. Or perhaps you simply prefer the works of the philosophes to that of the Romantics?

    UltraRob: If you haven't already done so, The Black Tulip makes for a good read too. As well as La Reine Margot. I enjoyed this more than The Count of Monte Cristo. That's not to say that The Count isn't good - it's splendid. However, Margot far exceeded my (comparatively low) expectations of the novel. Of course, imo, none is as enduring as The Vicomte de Bragelonne. After almost 4000 pages, the characters really grew on, and stay with you.

    ETA: Sorry, I have nothing to add to the actual topic of this thread.
    Last edited by Dania; 11-11-05 at 01:15 PM.

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    That's right. I'm not into reading BS romance.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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    Member UltraRob's Avatar
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    Thanks Dania, I'll look into those. But after just dealing with the CoMC's 1300 pages, I'm going to settle into a nice book of short stories by Robert E. Howard to give my brain a rest. (And let my testosterone have it's turn...)

    Rob

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