The underlying principles of the various "Counter All Other" martial arts

[Extremer88]

Hey PJ, should the Ode to Gallantry martial arts count as one of the "Counter All Other" martial arts?

It seems SPT knows some form of countering martial arts that looks like QKDNY...

石破天双腿向海中直沉下去，眼见史婆婆又在左侧跌落，当下右掌急探，在她背上一托一带，借力转力，使出石壁 上“银鞍照白马”中的功夫，史婆婆的身子便稳稳向海船中飞去。

[PJ]

his family is known for 'using your own method against you'. shifting stars method only shifts force back upon the opponent, his needs to know the opponents methods to keep his family's reputation.

It is explicitly stated that Shifting North Star technique can reverse any technique back to the opponent, regardless of the technique. So, why does he need to know the opponent's method in order to keep his family reputation? He can just simply use his family's counter-all technique.

plus the more he knows about the opponents moves, the easier it is to sift back the force. ame for taijiquan and QKDNY.

Maybe so, but still: he hasn't even mastered his family's martial arts, so why not perfect that first?

Did Murong Bo also try to learn the martial arts of all schools?

[PJ]

Hey PJ, should the Ode to Gallantry martial arts count as one of the "Counter All Other" martial arts?

It seems SPT knows some form of countering martial arts that looks like QKDNY...

石破天双腿向海中直沉下去，眼见史婆婆又在左侧跌落，当下右掌急探，在她背上一托一带，借力转力，使出石壁 上“银鞍照白马”中的功夫，史婆婆的身子便稳稳向海船中飞去。

I think it was simply a case of him grabbing ahold of Grandma Shi and pushing her towards the boat. It is a bit vague for me to conclude the feat in the same league as Qiankun Danuoyi or Shifting North Star.

[Extremer88]

I think it was simply a case of him grabbing ahold of Grandma Shi and pushing her towards the boat. It is a bit vague for me to conclude the feat in the same league as Qiankun Danuoyi or Shifting North Star.

Maybe Athena and Lav have the answer to this, its not surprising if SPT really knews something that works like QKDNY.

[CFT]

It is explicitly stated that Shifting North Star technique can reverse any technique back to the opponent, regardless of the technique. So, why does he need to know the opponent's method in order to keep his family reputation? He can just simply use his family's counter-all technique.

I bet MRF did not fully master his family's secret technique and hence had to resort to the more mundane: "knowing your enemy".

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

I think it was simply a case of him grabbing ahold of Grandma Shi and pushing her towards the boat. It is a bit vague for me to conclude the feat in the same league as Qiankun Danuoyi or Shifting North Star.

No. He changed the direction the gravitational pull acting on Grandma Shi towards the boat.

眼见史婆婆又在左侧跌落，当下右掌急探，在她背上一托一带，借力转力，使出石壁上‘银鞍照白马’中的功夫，史婆婆的身子便稳稳向海船中飞去。

EDIT: I know Extremer quoted this already, just pointing out that the energy used to make Grandma Shi fly towards the direction of the boat was not SPT's own energy, it was "borrowed" by the gravitational force, so it was indeed a form of redirection of energy, not merely throwing her away.

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

It is explicitly stated that Shifting North Star technique can reverse any technique back to the opponent, regardless of the technique. So, why does he need to know the opponent's method in order to keep his family reputation? He can just simply use his family's counter-all technique.

慕容复在这门功夫上虽然修练多年，究竟限于年岁，未能达到登峰造极之境，遇到丁春
秋这等第一流的高手，他自知无法以“斗转星移”之术反拨回去伤害对方，是以连使三次
“斗转星移”，受到打击的倒霉家伙，却都是星宿派弟子。他转是转了，移也移了，不过是
转移到了第三者身上。丁春秋暗施“逍遥三笑散”，弹杯送毒，逼射毒酒，每一次都给慕容
复轻轻易易的找了替死鬼。
丁春秋眼见慕容复又以借力打力之法反伤自己弟子
Simple. Shifting North Star technique is a very profound skill, Murong Fu is too young to be able to unleash the full power of the technique. Until now, he can only redirect opponent's move to a third party. In the absence of a third party, this skill is useless to him. Hence, in order to protect his family's reputation, he needed to learn the various arts of his opponents.

[PJ]

No. He changed the direction the gravitational pull acting on Grandma Shi towards the boat.

EDIT: I know Extremer quoted this already, just pointing out that the energy used to make Grandma Shi fly towards the direction of the boat was not SPT's own energy, it was "borrowed" by the gravitational force.

Thanks for the clarification.

In your opinion, which other martial arts exhibit the same force-borrowing capability as Shi Potian's feat?

[PJ]

Until now, he can only redirect opponent's move to a third party. In the absence of a third party, this skill is useless to him. Hence, in order to protect his family's reputation, he needed to learn the various arts of his opponents.

I don't think that's quite true. The novel stated that 遇到丁春秋这等第一流的高手，他自知无法以“斗转星移”之术反拨回去伤害对方. Only if he countered someone at a higher level would he not be able to shift their energy back to them. But that doesn't mean Murong Fu can't use it properly against a lower level opponent.

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

I don't think that's quite true. The novel stated that 遇到丁春秋这等第一流的高手，他自知无法以“斗转星移”之术反拨回去伤害对方. Only if he countered someone at a higher level would he not be able to shift their energy back to them. But that doesn't mean Murong Fu can't use it properly against a lower level opponent.

So if we are to combine the quotes it would mean:

Fighting a person with strong martial arts, he needs the presence of a third party to redirect the attacks.

[PJ]

So if we are to combine the quotes it would mean:

Fighting a person with strong martial arts, he needs the presence of a third party to redirect the attacks.

Yeah, which is why I think that he should have concentrated on his family martial arts first before diving into other low-level martial arts of various schools (which probably won't impress any great fighter, and even Wang Yuyan thought his sabre techniques were not so hot).

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

Yeah, which is why I think that he should have concentrated on his family martial arts first before diving into other low-level martial arts of various schools (which probably won't impress any great fighter, and even Wang Yuyan thought his sabre techniques were not so hot).

慕容复在这门功夫上虽然修练多年，究竟限于年岁，未能达到登峰造极之境.

I believe this technique, like Dragon Elephant Prana Skill, requires many years of practise. Murong Fu is young, hence he was unable to perform this skill to its maximum after many years of practice. And we know Murong Fu is no martial arts super-talent

[Black Night Sea]

which other martial arts exhibit the same force-borrowing capability as Shi Potian's feat?

Shifting Star Technique.

When Xuzhu and TSTL fell from several thousand feet after being knocked off the cliff by LQS, MRF applied this technique and pushed Xuzhu a little over 10 zhang away and rebounded off a some bloke's beer belly and consequently killed him in an instant. The incident was like a pinball effect where even Duan Yu joined in the fun.

The technique even earned Tonglao's admiration:
那個化解咱們下墮之勢的年輕公子，這一掌借力打力，四兩撥千斤， 當真出神入化。

But there are differences to be pointed out if one wants to decide whos feat is better:

- Unlike MRF, Shi Potian was balancing on a wooden plank (doing whatever necessary to prevent from falling/sinking into the sea) and held another person on another arm while he was performing it.
- MRF didn't put much effort in the palm whereas Shi Potian might have.
- MRF felt dizzy reinforced with blurred vision and had almost collapsed immediately afterwards.
- The airborne Grandma Shi did not kill or even injure the guy on the boat on impact.
- The distance of the fall as well as the wooden plank from the boat is unknown.

[ChronoReverse]

Didn't the 5th hero in HSDS randomly pull out some kind of crazy redirection where he redirected two boulders hurled at him UPWARDS?

[St3v3]

I think in one of the version there is stated that someone with enough internal energy need 5-7 years to learned and mastered each step of the QKDNY. In case after 7 years he couldn't master the step he should stop otherwise he will go crazy/dead.

In terms of difficulties, QKDNY is far more dificult to master than shifting north star.

Murong Fu with his internal energy could only master level 2 or maximum half way level 3 of QKDNY.
Yang Xiao only learned halfway level 2 and already toyed most of other Ming's elders
Previous Ming leader Yang Dingtian only learned halfway into level 4 of QKDNY and already rules Ming Clan and highly respected in Jianghu.

I just wonder what could happened if Murong Fu fight ZWJ, these 2 wulin expert people claimed underperformed (sometimes)