Did the remaining Cheun Jen Sect Elders survive ROCH?

[Ken Cheng]

ROCH '83 was extremely ambivalent about whether or not the remaining Cheun Jen Elders survived to the end of ROCH. As the Mongols closed in with their artillery and troops, Yau Chui Gei named Lee Tze Seung the sixth Cheun Jen Sect Leader and ordered Lee and the surviving younger Taoists to flee the Chung Yeung Temple. Lee and the others originally refused to abandon the Elders, but Yau promised him that he and the other Elders had no plans to commit suicide, and suggested that the Elders would rendezvous with the younger Taoists later.

Shortly afterwards, with the Chung Yeung Temple burning and crumbling around them, the Cheun Jen Elders sat waiting for the end, making no move to escape. Yeung Gor, looking for the cure to Little Dragon Girl's injury, offered to help the Elders escape, but the Elders refused...saying that their loyalty to the Chung Yeung Temple was no less than Yeung Gor's devotion to Little Dragon Girl. Not long afterward, Wong Yung, Gwok Fu, Mo 3 Tung, the Mo Brothers, Yeh Lut Chai, etc., arrived at the smoking ruins of the Chung Yeung Temple and buried the charred remains of some Taoists (not positively identified as the remains of the Elders, but the conversation among the characters suggested that they were). Sixteen years later, however, Gwok Seung tells Gwok Jing that Yau Chui Gei had received his invitation to attend the Heroes Conference at Seung Yeung City, but had declined because he was too old to travel so far.

So did the Cheun Jen Elders survive ROCH or not? ROCH '83 went back and forth on this so often I got whiplash trying to follow it.

The most hilarious continuity error involved Wong Chui 1: he fell on Chiu Tze Ging's sword in an act of suicide for having trained the disciple that became the end of the sect, but just minutes later, was alive and well as if he'd never fallen on Chiu's sword. It's like the scriptwriters were retconning continuity as they went along.

But really, what happened to Yau Chui Gei, Sheun But Yee, Lau Chui Yin, and Wong Chui 1?

[Swordwiz]

Someone answer the question.

[Thai guy]

Ken, I think the elders survived until the time Guo Xiang went to visit them afterwards. As far as I can see ROCH 1983, Wong Chiu 1 did die and it was his corpse which Huang Rong and the rests did bury him afterwards. The thing is, if you carefull observe, during the Mongolian fight, Hao Da Tong disappeared. I believed there might be something happened with the actor who played Hao Da Tong at that time and, in the urgent, the director thus used the actor who played Wong Chiu 1 to replace him.

[Ken Cheng]

Ken, I think the elders survived until the time Guo Xiang went to visit them afterwards. As far as I can see ROCH 1983, Wong Chiu 1 did die and it was his corpse which Huang Rong and the rests did bury him afterwards. The thing is, if you carefull observe, during the Mongolian fight, Hao Da Tong disappeared. I believed there might be something happened with the actor who played Hao Da Tong at that time and, in the urgent, the director thus used the actor who played Wong Chiu 1 to replace him.

Gok Dai Tung's character was killed off when the Cheun Jen 5 Elders went to sabotage the Mongols' artillery, but since the Wong Chui 1 character would perish in the very next episode, I don't think it was an actors' scheduling problem that resulted in the Gok character's early demise.

In any case, it doesn't have anything to do with Wong Chui 1's mysterious revival.

[Thai guy]

Gok Dai Tung's character was killed off when the Cheun Jen 5 Elders went to sabotage the Mongols' artillery

I think this part was cut out from VCD version.

[Ken Cheng]

ROCH '83 was notoriously ambiguous about the final fate of the second generation Cheun Jen Sect members. Some dialogue suggested that Yau Chui Gei, Wong Chui 1, Lau Chui Yin, and Sheun But Yee died in the Mongol firebombing of Chung Yeung Temple, but other dialogue suggested that at least Yau Chui Gei was still alive at the end of ROCH sixteen years later. Definitively, who was dead and who was alive among the original Cheun Jen 7 Disciples by the end of ROCH? We know that Ma Yuk and Gok Dai Tung were already gone, but what about the others?

[Ken Cheng]

No answer for a relatively simple question?

[Ken Cheng]

One of the quirkiest things about ROCH '83 (disco lights in the finale aside) was how the scriptwriting team seemed schizophrenic about the final fate of the Cheun Jen 5 Disciples. They kept flip-flopping around this point right up to the end.

To wit:

1. Wong Chui 1, ashamed of himself for having taken on the traitor Chiu Tze Ging as a student, fell on his sword...apparently to his death. Strangely, Wong shows up alive and well in the next episode...not even apparently wounded. WTF?! What kind of Mickey Mouse continuity editing is this?! Did Wong die or not in ROCH?

2. Gok Dai Tung dies during a raid against the Mongols' artillery. Well, at least he didn't mysteriously come back to life like Wong Chui 1 did. Did he actually survive ROCH in the novel?

3. As Chung Yeung Temple is getting firebombed by the Mongols, new Cheun Jen Sect Leader Lee Tze Seung begs/demands that the sect's seniors flee with them. Yau Chui Gei laughs and says, "You think we're planning on committing suicide? Don't be silly." To that, Ma Yuk (who should be dead, according to the novel) adds, "We're going to be killing Mongol dogs. You guys go ahead and leave. We'll catch up later after we've accomplished our mission." This delighted Lee and the juniors. Yau Chui Gei assured them that they were not planning to kill themselves and would rendezvous with the others after they had finished their mission.

4. Apparently, Yau and his cohorts were LIARS because in the next episode, the remaining Cheun Jen Sect second-generation disciples are just sitting in the temple waiting to die. Even when Yeung Gor offers to help them escape, they turn him down, saying that they planned to go down with the temple.

5. A few days later, Wong Yung and her group arrive at the smoking ruins of the Chung Yeung Temple. Gwok Fu points at something (we don't see quite what it is...looks like charred remains of Taoist robes or something) in terror, asking her mother, "Mom...what is THAT?!"

6. Next, there are crude memorial stones for "Cheun Jen Taoists" (it doesn't say which ones) hastily erected by Wong Yung and her group at the site of the temple. Wong Yung remarks to Mo 3 Tung that if Gwok Jing learns about what has happened to the Cheun Jen Sect, he'd be heartbroken.

7. Sixteen years later, when Gwok Jing inquires about his teacher, Yau Chui Gei, Gwok Seung replies, "Grandteacher Yau is fine. But he says that he's getting on in years and doesn't plan to make the trip to the Heroes Conference." So did Yau Chui Gei survive after all, or was Gwok Seung also a LIAR?

The scriptwriters in ROCH '83 seemed awfully confused about what they wanted to do with the Cheun Jen 5 Disciples. I mean, it's a given that a TV or movie adaptation is going to deviate from the novel, but in this case, it seemed like the scriptwriters themselves had no idea where to go on this issue. Totally confusing.

What *really* happened to the Cheun Jen 5 Disciples in the novel?

[LuNaR]

didnt they die of old age? at least that was what happened in roch 95

[Ken Cheng]

didnt they die of old age? at least that was what happened in roch 95

They couldn't all have gone at the same time. Ma Yuk died first because he was the oldest, but what about the others?

[LuNaR]

They couldn't all have gone at the same time. Ma Yuk died first because he was the oldest, but what about the others?

like u, i didnt read the book

[Ken Cheng]

like u, i didnt read the book

Yeah. I'd really like to know which of Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung's students were dead and which were alive at the end of ROCH, and how each of those who were dead had died and when they had died.

This is one of those cases where you wonder why TVB didn't just stick to the original story. Wouldn't it have been easier that way? Instead, they have all kinds of weirdness going on with characters dying and coming back to life with no explanation at all.

[odbayarb2000]

Ma Yu died because of old age during ROCH.
Tan Chuduan died in hands of Ouyang Feng during LOCH.

And no mentions of others death. At least Qui Chuji was alive in the end of ROCH.

[sarakoth]

I recall Qiu Chuji being sick at the end of ROCH possibly forshadowing his death.

[Ken Cheng]

I recall Qiu Chuji being sick at the end of ROCH possibly forshadowing his death.

In terms of age, the Cheun Jen Sect second generation disciples were around the same age as the Greats...maybe even some years younger. The Greats' longevity was much better, though. The Cheun Jen Disciples were beginning to drop out of the picture in ROCH, but the Greats were still going strong.

It must be that superior inner power keeping the Greats going.