Yeung Gor vs GWM at the temple

[Yeung Gor]

When SLN was in trouble, YG had to face all the Mongolian Warriors including the GWM. He handily defeated everyone with one move of his heavy sword, except for GWM. Had YG not be restricted to holding SLN and fighting. How would a fight between YG and GWM play out? Who would win?

My take on this is YG would single-handily defeat GWM. If GWM had trouble with YG while he isnt allow to move around. Imagine YG moving freely to untilize the full power of the Heavy Sword. This is also a testament to how great Dugu is.

[yittz]

Is having a better weapon counts as being fair?

YG without HIS would have lost imo.
It's clear internal energy wise, YG has less.
We don't know how his techniques compare with JLFW - except he has one less arm, but an extra sleeve.

Is that how we judge kungfu ability? Or do we look at their weapons too?

[K2Grey]

The Heavy Iron Sword is unbalanced. It breaks the game (unless you happen to have one of a select number of similarly game-breaking skills).

[yittz]

Yes, we need a patch from Jin Yong to even it out. YG's HIS is being abused. Maybe give JLFW some special unbreakable wheels.

[danshu_]

Can other people besides Yang Guo use the Heavy Iron Sword as well as he can?

[Ken Cheng]

Can other people besides Yang Guo use the Heavy Iron Sword as well as he can?

At that point, no, because he'd been training rigorously with it for about a month (or more). If you give the Heavy Iron Sword to one of the Greats, however, they'll probably do pretty well with it too after a month or so (but they won't develop as much because they were already at or near max capacity while Yeung Gor still had room for growth).

[tape]

I always wondered, wouldn't any other great martial artist easily be able to see the Heavy Iron Sword theories after watching YG in action once? What stops them from just getting a equally heavy weapon and training and imitating the same style? I don't see how any other martial arts can come into play after everyone develops the straight on brute force method that forces you to similarily defend/attack or die.

[yittz]

I always wondered, wouldn't any other great martial artist easily be able to see the Heavy Iron Sword theories after watching YG in action once? What stops them from just getting a equally heavy weapon and training and imitating the same style? I don't see how any other martial arts can come into play after everyone develops the straight on brute force method that forces you to similarily defend/attack or die.

Finding the HIS material is the tricky part. An ounce of it is rare and hard to find, let alone so much. YinKeXing could not resist stealing the HIS, even though he's not confident of doing so - in return he lost his valuable whip.

Gees, you'd thinking something so valuable YG would carry it everywhere he goes instead of leaving it somewhere.

[Yeung Gor]

Wow, I didnt expect you guys to argue over the Heavy Iron Sword. However, I am sure you guys understood what I was asking. If YG and GWM had faught without SLN being a hinderance to YG and using their respective weapons, who would have won?

[Ken Cheng]

Gees, you'd thinking something so valuable YG would carry it everywhere he goes instead of leaving it somewhere.

At least until the final battle of Seung Yeung at the end of ROCH, I think he did. He kept in in a sheath on his back a la He Man from MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE.

Interestingly, in HSDS, after the Heavy Iron Sword had been reforged as the Dragon Sabre, Golden Haired Lion King Tse Tsun never really improved his inner power or fighting techniques despite having the Dragon Sabre in his possession for two decades. Yeung Gor definitely had something going for him (the snake organs, but also something else).

[TommyH]

I have a feeling it'd be a draw. Little Dragon Girl fought Golden Wheel Monk before he fought Yeung Gor and she owned him so easily. And later he fights Yeung Gor and it only makes sense Yeung Gor could beat him based on the fact that he learned the Heavy Iron Sword technique and has increased his martial arts skill and internal energy greatly. I voted Draw though since I have a feeling Golden Wheel Monk only lost to Little Dragon Girl because of his lack in technique and he was probably a bit confused when he fought Little Dragon Girl. Plus...he didn't fight Yeung Gor with swords or weapons but with internal energy and I think Yeung Gor still didn't match Golden Wheel Monk at it.

[tape]

Well against anything OTHER than the Heavy Iron Sword, I'd imagine a huge slab of densely melted metal would do the trick. All it needs is weight to generate the force, since it is a blunt weapon and does not depend on sharpness. I'm just curious to see how any other technique can be used to beat it, when it is such a simple and direct technique that one view is all you need to grasp the idea behind it.

[PJ]

I'm just curious to see how any other technique can be used to beat it

Superior internal energy or superior speed can beat any weapon. Example: Zhang Wuji beating Eight-armed Swordsman's Heavenly Sword; Dongfang Bubai's needle beating Linghu Chong's sword.

[Ken Cheng]

Superior internal energy or superior speed can beat any weapon.

So basically, whoever is stronger, faster, and more skilled wins. Makes sense.

[yittz]

Wow, I didnt expect you guys to argue over the Heavy Iron Sword. However, I am sure you guys understood what I was asking. If YG and GWM had faught without SLN being a hinderance to YG and using their respective weapons, who would have won?

Haha sorry. Yes YG would win.

Regarding Xie Xun: i think the condor and the waves also played a large part. YG may have improved his technique (formless?) from fighting the condor too.

If we can only get that damn elusive fire monkey to train with Xie Xun and feed him ape brains near the blast of the volcano.

[danshu_]

At that point, no, because he'd been training rigorously with it for about a month (or more). If you give the Heavy Iron Sword to one of the Greats, however, they'll probably do pretty well with it too after a month or so (but they won't develop as much because they were already at or near max capacity while Yeung Gor still had room for growth).

In that case, your statement seems to imply that YG's inner energy and strength are higher than everyone else. Because the HIS is just a sword that is really heavy. People with equal inner energy to YG should be able to pick it up and just use their regular sword techniques, right? YG was not able to use it at first cause he was too weak.

Yet obviously YG's inner strength is not higher than everyone else, which is why this question interests me.

[Ken Cheng]

In that case, your statement seems to imply that YG's inner energy and strength are higher than everyone else.

Actually, just the opposite. By the time that Yeung Gor discovered the Heavy Iron Sword, the Greats had each reached or were within striking distance of their inner power peaks. None of them were to experience any more great leaps forward in terms of inner power (gradual, progressive increases perhaps, but no quantum leaps). Pre-Heavy Iron Sword, Yeung Gor was significantly below Greats level in inner power, but after a month or so with the Heavy Iron Sword, he was within striking distance of Greats-level inner power.

Because the HIS is just a sword that is really heavy. People with equal inner energy to YG should be able to pick it up and just use their regular sword techniques, right?

The Greats would do better than Yeung Gor immediately did because they already have high level inner power going into Heavy Iron Sword training, but to actually be able to use the Heavy Iron Sword as if it were an ordinary sword might take some adjustment time...even for a Great.

Yet obviously YG's inner strength is not higher than everyone else, which is why this question interests me.

The pace of Yeung Gor's inner power development during this period and the subsequent sixteen years is indeed quite strange. He made a HUGE leap during the one month or so period between losing his arm and his confrontation against the Golden Wheel Monk at Chung Yeung Temple, but his inner power increased more gradually and incrementally thereafter. During that one month, he went from way, way below Greats level to near-Greats level, but during the sixteen years that followed, he only kept pace with the Greats. It's almost as if he peaked early.

[ChronoReverse]

That's the unfortunate result of his extremely unorthodox internal energy method =/

It gives really nice boosts early on, but it ends up harder to refine.



ZWJ really had it nice. A super boost of orthodox internal energy that will only become more and more pure plus a chance at 9 Yin to balance too =/

[danshu_]

The Greats would do better than Yeung Gor immediately did because they already have high level inner power going into Heavy Iron Sword training, but to actually be able to use the Heavy Iron Sword as if it were an ordinary sword might take some adjustment time...even for a Great.

It seems to me that the only reason YG recquired a month of adjustment time was because his internal energy was not strong enough; he was too weak to wield the sword.

[Ken Cheng]

It seems to me that the only reason YG recquired a month of adjustment time was because his internal energy was not strong enough; he was too weak to wield the sword.

The inner power part of it was an important factor, but also a factor was that the Heavy Iron Sword was just darn awkward to wield. Not only is it heavy, but it's irregularly shaped (for a sword) and has no sharp edges. Making it work like a normal sword and then some requires great inner power and a certain degree of skill as well.