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Thread: Wuxia heroes... shallow?

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    Senior Member 0-0-0's Avatar
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    Post Wuxia heroes... shallow?

    Do you think the wuxia heroes are shallow?

    I know in Flying Fox, Hu Fei loves both Yuan Zi Yi and Miao Ruo Lan, who are both very beautiful. the only girl he does not love, and cares for only as a sister is Cheng Ling Su, who is incidently ugly.

    Duan Yu also fell in love with Wang Yu Yan, even though he liked Mu Wan Qing and Zhong Ling at first. Wang Yu Yan is described as being goddess like and much more beautiful than the other two.

    Yang Guo loved only his Gu Gu, XLN, who was one of the most beautiful women that existed in Jin Yong's universe. Each time he saw another girl like Cheng Ying, he would compare their beauty with his Gu Gu's.

    Do you think that they were shallow or not? Do you think that even if the girls they loved had been ugly, they would still have loved them?

  2. #2
    Moderator Suet Seung's Avatar
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    Shallow wouldn't be the word I use, Superficial is a better word for it.

    It's not their fault they're superficial. It's Jin Yong's fault for making them superficial. Apparently his philosophy is a great hero deserves a great beauty to match. So you rarely see any great hero pairing up with a plain jane.
    I just love how you Captivate My Mind

    Self reminder - Update blog more often and continue editing/writing for TOV fanfic.

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    Member Neo26988's Avatar
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    I'm wondering. Did JY ever describe Ah Zhu as being beautiful? Because i remember reading somewhere (Probably wikipedia, lol) that she was described as 'average' in the looks department. Mind you, she make up for it (Sounds so bad when i put it like this ) with her other qualities.

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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Not Jin Yong's fault. But the consumer's fault. Who would want to read about an ugly XLN?

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    Senior Member patricia n's Avatar
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    not just the heroes but the heroines are shallow as well.

    men want beauties.
    women want heroes.

    although the idea of liking a person for his/her heroism is more noble than liking a person for his/her looks.
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    Banned strife_au's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yittz
    Not Jin Yong's fault. But the consumer's fault. Who would want to read about an ugly XLN?
    lol reckon ...

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Its not just wuxia heroes. I think it applies to just about ALL main male characters in all stories across all cultures.

    Its ok to have an ugly main male character. Its NOT ok to have an ugly female lead (unless she turns beautiful in the end).

    Can you imagine if anyone would want to read The Hunchback of Notre Dame if it was the girl who was ugly and hunchbacked and Quasimodo was a handsome stud?

    Or The Phantom of the Opera if Christine was deformed and the Phantom was a dashing hero?

    Can anyone think of a story which defied this convention? (and not have some plot device in the end transform the ugly girl into a pretty one)

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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    I can't. Boo it means, we, the human race as a whole, are so shallow. No wonder there are problems with Anorexia/Bulimia nervosa, and greater number of plastic surgery + makeup etc.

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    Senior Member patricia n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    Can anyone think of a story which defied this convention? (and not have some plot device in the end transform the ugly girl into a pretty one)
    shrek! if anything, it transformed a pretty girl to an ugly one.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Such was the time and the culture.

    And I'm not talking about the pre-modern Chinese culture that the wuxia stories were set in (although that culture was certainly sexist), but the wuxia literature-writing culture of the Cold War era (i.e. Jin Yong and Gu Long). Politically correct wuxia is not.

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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patricia n
    shrek! if anything, it transformed a pretty girl to an ugly one.
    Yeah I got real annoyed.

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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    I'm shallow. I hope it's the other way round. Shrek turning handsome.

    I was really happy when he turn human for a short while in part 2, but too bad it didn't last. Political correctness sure ruin fairytales.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Senior Member patricia n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yittz
    Yeah I got real annoyed.

    ahh, poor poor yittz...

    yeah, ugly fiona wasn't nice to look at but it was still a twist...because you knew the majority of us wanted her and expected her to stay in the human form...

    kidd-i hear you...
    if you have the time and enthusiasm, please join in on the new and fabulous wuxia rpg fic /rpg discussion. (<--- click here)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0-0-0
    Yang Guo loved only his Gu Gu, XLN, who was one of the most beautiful women that existed in Jin Yong's universe. Each time he saw another girl like Cheng Ying, he would compare their beauty with his Gu Gu's.
    Yang Guo said this to Cheng Ying re: Xiaolongnu's looks: "I long for her not because of her beauty - even if she was the ugliest person in the world, I would miss her just the same." Also, he always found Guo Fu lovely; but immediately after she (unintentionally) insulted him, he thought angrily: "Even if you were ten times as pretty as you are, how would you compare to my Gugu one bit?"

    YG ranked beauties with the same enthusiasm shown by those in this forum who rank fighters, but he wasn't a shallow guy. He loved XLN for reasons other than looks, comparing pretty much every girl he met to XLN mainly because looking at them made him think of her; and despite finding GF beautiful, he was basically the only guy in ROCH who found her personality a turn-off.

    In general, I don't think this issue is about superficiality / consumer demand / or "all stories across all cultures". It's rather a feature of Jin Yong's particular genre. So maybe you could say it's not wuxia heroes who are 'shallow', but wuxia fiction which is 'conventionalised'.
    Last edited by owbjhx; 05-04-06 at 06:02 AM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Yeung Gor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0-0-0

    Yang Guo loved only his Gu Gu, XLN, who was one of the most beautiful women that existed in Jin Yong's universe. Each time he saw another girl like Cheng Ying, he would compare their beauty with his Gu Gu's.
    YG initially didn't fall in love with XLN but much later. It was after XLN ran away cuz YG wouldn't marry her that he started to miss her and then come to realize he is in love. So it is not her beauty that capture his heart but their connection with one another. YG would have love XLN regardless of her beauty.

    One strange aspect of beauty is that when you fall in love, the person you fall in love with tends to be more beautiful in your eyes than before. The deeper you are in love the more beautiful the person becomes even if you are the only one who see it that way. So beauty and love is connected and isn't a shallow thing.

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    Senior Member 0-0-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by owbjhx
    In general, I don't think this issue is about superficiality / consumer demand / or "all stories across all cultures". It's rather a feature of Jin Yong's particular genre. So maybe you could say it's not wuxia heroes who are 'shallow', but wuxia fiction which is 'conventionalised'.
    That's a good way of putting it. I actually don't think YG is shallow and superficial... but sometimes i wonder about JY's way of writing. All the girls are always beautiful, and only the beautiful girls hook up with the guy

    I guess A Zhu is an exception... but hey! both of them died... so no ugly girl has had a good ending with the wuxia hero.

    It is a convention for heroines to be pretty though...

  17. #17
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Regarding YG's post:

    Yes, most JY's male heroes' did not appear to care much for beauty. I am sure GJ would have married HR if she wasn't the most beautiful. ZWJ did not care much for his cousin's face scarring. LHC initially prefered YLS (even though RYY is more adorable no?) because of their growing up.
    Last edited by yittz; 05-04-06 at 06:15 AM.

  18. #18
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Ah Zhu wasn't ugly no? She was daughter of the playboy DZC and since DZC only dig pretty girls, a beautiful mother. Her sister was pretty, so surely she's above normal in appearance.

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    Senior Member 0-0-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yittz
    Ah Zhu wasn't ugly no? She was daughter of the playboy DZC and since DZC only dig pretty girls, a beautiful mother. Her sister was pretty, so surely she's above normal in appearance.
    she wasn't ugly, but she just wasn't as beautiful as all the other 'goddess-like' women in JY's world.

    I'm sure she was above average.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0-0-0
    she wasn't ugly, but she just wasn't as beautiful as all the other 'goddess-like' women in JY's world.

    I'm sure she was above average.
    Strangely, Ah Zhu is the only woman that interests Xiao Feng
    ..ext88

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