Most hated villain of both LOCH/ROCH

[Extremer88]

Who is your most hated villain of both LOCH/ROCH?

[Temujin]

There isn't really a pure 'villian' in LOCH/ROCH, they both have their good sides, I don't consider Yang Kang, WYHL, Ouyang Ke, Ouyang Feng, GWM as villian either. But if there's one that's pure evil, I'd go for Huo Du, he is a real bastard.

[Ken Cheng]

Yeah, Fok Do seemed to be the one villain in L/ROCH that had no redeemable/sympathetic qualities whatsoever.

I take that back. Chiu Tze Ging (Yeung Gor's martial arts teacher at the Cheun Jen Sect) could give Fok Do a run for his money and them some.

[ghostdarTeal'c]

i think zhao zhijing should have made it to the poll, at least zhen zhibing repented after what he did to xiao long nu. this zhao zhijing is a traitor to the very end....

[dragonite3579]

i can't b bothered

[SkineePanda]

Ouyang Ke. I mean most of the people in the list have ambitions or reasons for their evilness. But Ouyang Ke kidnaps and rapes women. That's not constructive or justified at all.

[yittz]

OYK is fine - his ambition is similar to your avatar

I didnt like the passion flower couple. They deserve to be the most hated couple.

[SkineePanda]

OYK is fine - his ambition is similar to your avatar

Yes, my avatar wants to violate women. HAHA

[ghostdarTeal'c]

I didnt like the passion flower couple. They deserve to be the most hated couple.

that's inter-marriage conflict, anyone could have been as uncontrolled and cruel as them....tho killing own daughter does seem rather over the edge.... hatred between husband and wife is something you wouldnt want to interfere...

[Candide]

The worst one has to be Gongsun Zi, who somehow didn't even make the poll. He's about as evil as it gets. His wife is a close second.

[ghostdarTeal'c]

The worst one has to be Gongsun Zi, who somehow didn't even make the poll. He's about as evil as it gets. His wife is a close second.

yeah, wonder why they didnt make it to the poll...too many candidates perhaps...LOL....Qiu QianChe grew up with his evil brother Qiu Qian Ren, even if she was not close to him, it is in her blood....well, also the way of bringing up of course...yang guo turned good despite his father's commendable reputation....anyway....QQC's the most suitable woman for Gongsun Zhi. evil and determined, just like him. Unfortunate for Luu E to have such unfavorable trait in her parents.....

[owbjhx]

Who is your most hated villain of both LOCH/ROCH?

Guo Fu. I consider her the 'real' villain of ROCH. Zhao Zhijing & Huodu were slimy but pathetic; Gongsun Zhi & Yin Zhiping were basically merely being guys; Jin Yong indulged Li Mochou; and Jinlun might as well have been Guo Xiang's teddy bear. Nobody in ROCH injured the hero & heroine more than Guo Fu, and nobody took as long as her to repent.

LOCH has very even treatment of villains. I reckon the entire ridiculous Ci'en subplot in ROCH was just Jin Yong compensating for making Qiu Qianren so underwhelming in LOCH. It was quite some achievement getting all the villains to look mild even in contrast to a main character as nice as Guo Jing.

[0-0-0]

Gongsun Zhi & Yin Zhiping were basically merely being guys;

that's the most stupid thing i've ever heard. So Gong Sun Zhi, Yin Zhi Ping/Zhen Zhi Bing and Ou Yang Ke type people are forgiven simply because they're of the MALE gender?

[owbjhx]

So Gong Sun Zhi, Yin Zhi Ping/Zhen Zhi Bing and Ou Yang Ke type people are forgiven simply because they're of the MALE gender?

That's not quite what I meant. What I'm saying is that Gongsun Zhi, Yin Zhiping & Ouyang Ke are depicted by Jin Yong as guys who did some nasty stuff because they had trouble controlling the thing that...makes them guys. They're certainly not forgiven, but the way their characters are written makes them (sometimes) understandable and pitiful. I still hate them, but at least they're human. Guo Fu, on the other hand...

[silent_bunny]

That's not quite what I meant. What I'm saying is that Gongsun Zhi, Yin Zhiping & Ouyang Ke are depicted by Jin Yong as guys who did some nasty stuff because they had trouble controlling the thing that...makes them guys. They're certainly not forgiven, but the way their characters are written makes them (sometimes) understandable and pitiful. I still hate them, but at least they're human. Guo Fu, on the other hand...

Whoa, Guo Fu is *way* more understandable and pitiful than Gongsun Zhi. She was very human to me, in fact, more human than XLN. I'm not a huge fan of the hero and heroine so my heart didn't break when Guo Fu injured them, and half the injuries she didn't do on purpose anyways. She was just dumb and had some serious bad luck. I actually kind of like her. Plus Yang Guo was asking for it a lot of the time, and provoked the situation in such a way I couldn't blame Guo Fu much for half of what she did, none of which pissed me off.

Gongsun Zhi, on the other hand, royally pissed me off. Actually, he made me scream and want to throw things at him, because he was *such* a bastard to his daughter who totally didn't deserve it. He was a lecher and a tyrant who made people who didn't serve his purpose miserable. All the other "villains" I could find that sliver of humanity in and could see signs of redemption or understand that they were trapped by certain situations or things they couldn't fix, but with him, he was just one nasty ball of pus.

[PJ]

Zhao Zhijing and Yang Kang. 2 Despicable traitors.

[kyss of the sword]

i got to hate OYK because he's a rapist and there's no forgiving that. thru the loch translation seems to say that he kidnaps woman to be his concubine but he doesn't actually rape them because of his pride. he suduces them with his charm and good looks. through he did try to rape MNC when YK killed him.

i don't belive that YK going over to the jins is a big thing. in most of china's history, great men often left their nation because their talents weren't appreciated and joined another which they helped to rule the central plains. in the spring and atutem periods(the sword of the yue maiden), the prime minister of yue was from a different nation. in fact, a person was only blamed if he fought against the hans, but if a non'han joined the hans, he was praised. it's a sort of 'history is written by the victiors' situition. it a xenophobic ideal, which is pretty common in ancient chinese and confusism ideals.

[Da Bao]

The ones I hate most... Gongsun Zi!!

I know Gongsun Zi isn't on the list, but I hate him so much!! He's so twisted! I mean... He killed his lover for the sake of his own life! I wanted to toss him covered with meat sauce into an undergraund pit with no light and a bunch of starving crocodiles! Seriusly!! His wife -although very cruel herself- didn't deserve to have the tendons of her arms and legs slit making her disabled! He's the one having the affair! He started all this, and she deserved punishment too but not as far as having her put into that pit with alligators and no food!!
The only reason she survived down there for EIGHTEEN LONG YEARS, was because of a fruit bearing tree that was planted there by accident. And don't forget poor GSLE....

[arachidonic]

From the list, I'll go for Qiu Qianren.
Otherwise, its Zhao Zhijing, followed by Gongsun Zi.

QQR: Selfish.
ZZJ: ...I think I'll have to use "chin kak" for this guy.
GSZ: Ha! The fact that he think that he could get XLN!? No way!

XD.

Just kidding. He's cruel, sly and wicked. Not only did he betrayed his mistress/lover, he also tried to kill QQR and later, his very own daughter.

[owbjhx]

Whoa, Guo Fu is *way* more understandable and pitiful than Gongsun Zhi. She was very human to me, in fact, more human than XLN. I'm not a huge fan of the hero and heroine so my heart didn't break when Guo Fu injured them, and half the injuries she didn't do on purpose anyways. She was just dumb and had some serious bad luck. I actually kind of like her. Plus Yang Guo was asking for it a lot of the time, and provoked the situation in such a way I couldn't blame Guo Fu much for half of what she did, none of which pissed me off.

I admire your perverse viewpoint, but I don't see anywhere in the novel (2nd edition, at least) where Jin Yong writes Guo Fu as a likeable or pitiful character. She is a sadistic bully who treats other people like insects: in Lu Wushuang's words, she has "no idea of right or wrong". She doesn't suffer anything that makes her pitiable; on the contrary, she's emerged from a comfortable childhood as a monster, and misbehaves with impunity. She might not have pissed you off, but the fact that she pissed Guo Jing off and blackened his legacy perhaps says something about where Jin Yong places GF in judgement. She might have once or twice injured unintentionally, but her reaction to her misdeeds - intentional or otherwise - defines her: she never shows remorse, doesn't even admit them, and continues doing so despite the absurd number of times she's saved by Yang Guo. (This in a novel where redemption is a major theme.) Her relentless bitterness is not at all understandable until the clumsy and unconvincing denouement of chapter 39.

GF is an unpleasant character who's written even worse. I'm surprised you like GF and dislike YG, because they share a key annoying character trait - epic self-centeredness. At least YG sort of grows out of it.

Gongsun Zhi, on the other hand, royally pissed me off. Actually, he made me scream and want to throw things at him, because he was *such* a bastard to his daughter who totally didn't deserve it. He was a lecher and a tyrant who made people who didn't serve his purpose miserable. All the other "villains" I could find that sliver of humanity in and could see signs of redemption or understand that they were trapped by certain situations or things they couldn't fix, but with him, he was just one nasty ball of pus.

You're right in pointing out Gongsun Zhi's lechery & tyranny and his mistreatment of Lu'e, but the novel (2nd edition, again) frequently casts him in rather a pitiful light. He is shown to suffer sadness, loneliness, remorse and desperation; his once-doting relationship with his daughter was effectively ruined by his first wife, and he cuts a pathetic figure as he sees that his new bride - the one thing in his life which gives him joy - only agreed to marry him out of "spite"; even YG has a bit of sympathy for him. (I hear you snorting in derision already...) None of this excuses his behaviour, but Jin Yong doesn't draw him completely without mercy; unlike GF, he's not the comic-book villain you describe.

Ultimately, to hate or not to hate a character is a reader's personal thing. I'm just trying to suggest what sort of spin Jin Yong puts on events.