Deus Ex Machina - JY answer to the unexplained...

[NetDriftr]

"Deus ex machina is a Latin phrase that is used to describe an unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot..."

The use of Deus Ex Machina (DeM) is prevalent in Jin Yong (JY) novels. JY would introduce some powerful character (or martial arts skill) to help his main characters out of tight situations. In modern literature, the use of DeM is frowned upon and depicts the author as incompetent who has written his plots into a corner. The author is absolve of all responsibility for developing a story in a coherent way. Some examples of DeM plot devices are listed below:

- In Demi Gods, Semi Devils (DGSD) - the character Sweeper Monk was introduced abruptly as an all powerful entity whose martial arts skills surpassed all. The Sweeper Monk resolved the 30 year old dispute between Xiao Yuan San and Murong Bo. Yet the background to Sweeper Monk was never explained or developed prior to his appearance.

- In Return of the Condor Heroes (ROCH) - the character and legacy of DuGu Qiu Bai (DGQB) was presented at a critical time where the main hero, Yang Guo, was at his weakest. Through the legacy left by DGQB, Yang Guo was able to turn his misfortunate around. Again, the character DGQB was never explained.

- Another example where JY used DeM plot device to advance his character is in Dragon Sabre, Heavenly Sword (HSDS). The main hero, Zhang Wuji, is trapped in an underground room and just as suddenly - the readers are informed of the long lost martial arts skill, Qian Kun Da Nuo Yi (QKDNY) hidden in the very same room, and only by mastering this skill will the hero be able free himself.

Do you agree or disagree with my assumption? Discuss.

[Wu Wudi]

"Deus ex machina is a Latin phrase that is used to describe an unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot..."

The use of Deus Ex Machina (DeM) is prevalent in Jin Yong (JY) novels. JY would introduce some powerful character (or martial arts skill) to help his main characters out of tight situations. In modern literature, the use of DeM is frowned upon and depicts the author as incompetent who has written his plots into a corner. The author is absolve of all responsibility for developing a story in a coherent way. Some examples of DeM plot devices are listed below:

- In Demi Gods, Semi Devils (DGSD) - the character Sweeper Monk was introduced abruptly as an all powerful entity whose martial arts skills surpassed all. The Sweeper Monk resolved the 30 year old dispute between Xiao Yuan San and Murong Bo. Yet the background to Sweeper Monk was never explained or developed prior to his appearance.

- In Return of the Condor Heroes (ROCH) - the character and legacy of DuGu Qiu Bai (DGQB) was presented at a critical time where the main hero, Yang Guo, was at his weakest. Through the legacy left by DGQB, Yang Guo was able to turn his misfortunate around. Again, the character DGQB was never explained.

- Another example where JY used DeM plot device to advance his character is in Dragon Sabre, Heavenly Sword (HSDS). The main hero, Zhang Wuji, is trapped in an underground room and just as suddenly - the readers are informed of the long lost martial arts skill, Qian Kun Da Nuo Yi (QKDNY) hidden in the very same room, and only by mastering this skill will the hero be able free himself.

Do you agree or disagree with my assumption? Discuss.

I think JY was forced to use those devices because it supposedly takes a long time to become powerful in martial arts. JY's protaganists are mostly teenagers or in their early 20s and therefore have to have "amazing encounters" in order to drastically improve their abilites and become people that can affect the world.

In Gu Long's world, the protaganists are often mature men who have already established themselves in the Jiang Hu and don't need amazing encounters to suddenly become powerful enough to be significant in their worlds.

I don't see how Deus Ex is used with regards to the Sweeper monk. When you use Deus Ex, it means that you don't really know how to resolve the plot so you just come up with a reason out of nowhere. I think that JY could have easily resolve the conflict but he just wanted us to be mystified of the sweeper monk. I'm still not sure if he's a human or an avator of a Buddha, or demi-God. Not only are Sweeper Monk's powers out of this world, he also had knowledge of many events which he shouldn't have known about. The other characters were also amazed that he was so knowledgeble about things that happened to them when no one else was around. Also, no one in Shaolin had ever seen the sweeper monk, and the way that he just appeared and disappeared in the story makes me think that he's not really meant to be human.

[immakiku]

In DGSD, Duan Yu + Ah Zhu somehow got rescued with a mysterious poison while talking to the Xi Xia .

YG and ZWJ finding stuff in a cave is a simple way to progress the plot in a Wuxia book. I don't think that, necessarily, JY wrote himself into a corner before that. I think it made the books more interesting (especially for discussion ) for them to have found those skills.

And weren't JY's books published piece by piece in newspaper format? If that's the case I don't really blame him.

[NetDriftr]

I don't see how Deus Ex is used with regards to the Sweeper monk. When you use Deus Ex, it means that you don't really know how to resolve the plot so you just come up with a reason out of nowhere. I think that JY could have easily resolve the conflict but he just wanted us to be mystified of the sweeper monk. I'm still not sure if he's a human or an avator of a Buddha, or demi-God. Not only are Sweeper Monk's powers out of this world, he also had knowledge of many events which he shouldn't have known about. The other characters were also amazed that he was so knowledgeble about things that happened to them when no one else was around. Also, no one in Shaolin had ever seen the sweeper monk, and the way that he just appeared and disappeared in the story makes me think that he's not really meant to be human.

your comments about Sweeper Monk is in fact the basis of Deus Ex Machina. in Ancient Roman drama, the DeM literally means, 'God from the Machine.' The use of DeM was popular where the protagonists would get their knickers into a knot and instead of unraveling their knickers, another actor (the god) would be lowered (the machine) onto the stage, wave their hand, and make the problem go away.

So relating back to the Sweeper Monk, his appearance was sudden and mysterious, and because of his 'divine' intervention, XYS and Murong Bo plotline is resolved. The resolution was somewhat anti climatic given this was one of the key plotlines. If Sweeper Monk is not of this world, then Jin Yong's introduction of Sweeper Monk is indeed a DeM plot device.

[Ardor]

he's not really meant to be human.

A... demon? Cheesy point to my own thread, i know.

I do realise that JY tends to use Deus Ex Machinas a lot.

[resident:alien]

i think sweeper monk is the best example of the three given.

at least JY could have added some information, but then again giving away information is sort of like "demystifying" that particular character.

it's surprising that JY never wrote a "tales of the JY world" that would go into these characters. then again, it'd have to be carefully written to be consistent.