Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

[ChronoReverse]

Ah, I misread the argument.


Still, it's not quite applicable in either case. QQR struck the blade so it was a sideways force which is orthogonal to the motion of the sword. Plus internal energy tends work in weird ways in terms of momentum.

[PJ]

ChanceEncounter: be nice to Dennis

[Aventinus]

Sigh. If you're going to make a quote, use the whole quote. Immediately afterwards, "Fawang called out: “Be careful!” Suddenly the five wheels returned again, coming side by side about to strike the two people like five powerful waves."

Two of which he broke which YG broke with the HIS as it was just a direct attack.

I can't believe someone is trying to claim that Yang Guo standing in a single place, not moving, with someone on his back, performs just as well as Yang Guo who is free to run, leap, position, attack, etc. etc. etc.

So you turned from bolding certains to twisting certain words.
Read back. Never have I said the above. In fact in the very first post regarding this I said YG was at a disadvantage. Go check that's what I said.
I'm saying it didn't matter because GWM never took advantage of the situation. He threw wheels at YG, which YG blocked with the HIS. I don't get what isn't coming across...because YG didn't need to run or jump or anythign because all GWM was directly attack him.
And when he did that YG had huge weapons advantage...stronger weapon, longer length.

Just by attacking, he is already taking advantage! What are you suggesting, that he attacks from behind? Oh, wait...he did that, and Yang Guo still chopped his wheel in half. Anyone can tell you that footwork is critical in martial arts. If one fighter is able to walk around, and the other is not, unless there is an incredibly high level of difference between their ability, the one who can walk around will win, even if he doesn't attack from the back.

Or they have a divine weapon with them.
Looking back I think we are arguing in circle because you did say it's the HIS that puts him at great level.
However I think the difference I'm driving at it the HIS doesn't put YG at great level. It give hims a huge weapons boost but YG himself is not at great level.
That I can kill a Great with a machine gun (possibly) doesn't put me at great level.

The canonical simplicity is one which is superior to complexity, not inferior, which is how you seem to be making it out as. This rests in the Daoist/Buddhist ideals of not-moving being greater than moving, of not-acting being more effective than acting, etc. etc. etc. To put it another way, when a monk is still, he is accomplishing something. When you and I are still on the couch, we are accomplishing nothing. It's within an entirely different realm.

Um...what?
I'm saying the technique behind using the HIS is simple to master since YG was able to master it in a matter of weeks (where as other arts he learned but never mastered) and that in the end it wasn't his skill level but rathet the HIS as a weapon that was his advantage.

Even if you want to discount JY's statement that it took Yideng=QQR, later on in the novel, JLGS takes a full day and a full night to fight and kill QQR. It is generally accepted by most people that QQR=Greats.

During LOCH I say he was greats level. We don't know what happened in the time in betweem.
In the 16 years later period..GWM generated energies that are implied to have hurt even ZBT if he didn't use his vacant fists...and enough to launch beams into flying dragons into the sky...QQR battling 1 full day and 1 full night implies me that it involved more running and chasing than just straigt fighting.

Seriously? I mean, seriously? F=MA. A=0 (Because he was holding the sword still). Therefore, F=0.

If what you mean is that beause YG wasn't swinging the HIS and that's why Yideng was able to move it and implying that YG had used no internal power through the sword......that arugment dind't come through clearly.
But taking such a an approach to the arugment says that this phyical momentum is enough to be equivalent of a great's internal energy, then this same momentum doesn't tear YG remaining arms off.....also implies YG has to accelrated said sword at the same rate the QQR decelerated it with his chest...(anything slower and it would be slow enough to dodge)..
And still at the end of the day weapon's advantage...which is what I've been arguing all al long.

[PJ]

Dongfang Bubai had incredibly reflexes and attacking speed, but he didn't demonstrate anything extraordinary in terms of footspeed.

In this, I see no contradiction. DFBB had incredible fighting/striking speed, but nothing like the ghostlike qinggong of Wei Yixiao.

It's possible. DFBB didn't have particularly good qingong. He was just stupendously fast.

And yet, in SPW, Jin Yong wrote that one's level of qing gong (foot speed) is directly proportionate to his level of internal energy. So the possibility that Wei Yixiao might be a better runner than Dongfang Bubai is definitely out.

[Ren Wo Xing]

PJ, consider that Zhang Wuji could run as fast as Wei Yixiao (if not faster), and yet he himself repeatedly admitted that his qinggong was far inferior to the Bat King; he couldn't perform the complex, dazzling manuevers which Wei Yixiao could, such as being able to retreat backwards while bowing at the waist without moving his body, or gliding across the ground on a blade of grass. So I really do not see contradiction.

[Ren Ying Ying]

And yet, in SPW, Jin Yong wrote that one's level of qing gong (foot speed) is directly proportionate to his level of internal energy. So the possibility that Wei Yixiao might be a better runner than Dongfang Bubai is definitely out.

only after you take account of the art. XLN was said to run just as fast as Qiu Qianren, but she certianly didn't display internal energy just as strong as his. but of course, like any other factor of martial arts, internal energy can make up for the difference in art & vice versa.

[the.raven]

And yet, in SPW, Jin Yong wrote that one's level of qing gong (foot speed) is directly proportionate to his level of internal energy. So the possibility that Wei Yixiao might be a better runner than Dongfang Bubai is definitely out.

nope, in heaven sword dragon sabre it is explicitly stated that even though ZWJ's internal energy is supreme, he still cannot hope to match wei yi xiao's speed, I think this is the part where WYX touched zhao min's face.

also, in ROch, XLN and QQR was competing in speed. they were evenly matched at first, but after sometime XLN fell behind because she had less stamina, internal energy = stamina, not speed.

[ChanceEncounter]

It really makes me wonder why Wei Yixiao wasn't a better fighter. He could bob and weave his way around and attack at critical spots on an opponent's body, but there's no evidence he was better than any of the other Guardian Lords.

[Ren Wo Xing]

His internal energy and technique seemed inferior to the rest. Yin Yewang had outstanding technique and strong internal energy; Xie Xun had outstanding internal energy and strong technique; Fan Yao had good internal energy and had an understanding of the world's martial arts second to none, whereas Yang Xiao not only was a martial arts progidy, he also knew some Qiankun Danoyi. Wei Yixiao seemed to only have above average technique and internal energy, although he was possessed of a godlike qinggong.

[the.raven]

ok new question:

duan zheng ming and duan yan qing more powerful than ding chun qiu?

wtfwtf

[PJ]

ok new question:

duan zheng ming and duan yan qing more powerful than ding chun qiu?

wtfwtf

That's correct. Duan Yanqing is superior to Murong Fu, while Ding Chunqiu is around the same level of Murong Fu.

[PJ]

To understand why Wei Yixiao wasn't any better than the other Lords despite having better qing gong, we can look at this example:

忽听得门外阴恻恻一声长笑，一个青色人影闪进
殿来，这人身法如鬼如魅，如风如电，倏忽欺身到那魁梧汉子的身后，挥掌拍出。
那大汉更不转身，反手便是一掌，意欲和他互拼硬功。那人不待此招打老，左手已
拍到那西域胡人的肩头。那胡人闪身躲避，飞腿踢他小腹。那人早已攻向那瘦和尚，
跟着斜身倒退，左掌拍向那身穿破烂衣衫之人。瞬息之间，那人连出四掌，攻击了
四名高手，虽然每一掌都没打中，但手法之快直是匪夷所思。，这四人知道遇到了
劲敌，各自跃开数步，凝神接战。

Despite ALL that fast movement sh*t, Wei Yixiao wasn't able to land a single strike on any opponent.

Not to mention, his qing gong could not save Xie Xun, and Yellow-dressed Lady had to jump in and save the day.

Which gives me the impression that his qing gong is just a nice to have, but not very effective in combat.

On the other hand, the speed of Xiao Longnu, DFBB, Lin Pingzhi, etc, have been shown to boost their performance in combat.

[PJ]

PJ, consider that Zhang Wuji could run as fast as Wei Yixiao (if not faster), and yet he himself repeatedly admitted that his qinggong was far inferior to the Bat King; he couldn't perform the complex, dazzling manuevers which Wei Yixiao could, such as being able to retreat backwards while bowing at the waist without moving his body, or gliding across the ground on a blade of grass. So I really do not see contradiction.

Fine. I was thinking more of speed, which I feel DFBB is definitely stronger; but I guess if we're talking about comprehensive qing gong, then Wei Yixiao could be more suave.

[played0ut]

This list is updated as of 2nd July 2008


Level 40 – 5th class experts. Most leaders of minor sects.


6) Huo Du (RO) – At Marital Art Meet
7) Daerba (RO) – At Martial Art Meet

LV 38: Qiu Chu Ji - Before the retreat (RO)
LV 37: Wang Chu Yi – At Jin Manor (LO)
LV 36: Ma Yu - Before the retreat (RO)

?

Zhen Zhibing, Li Zhichang and others were very happy and called out: “Master!” and rushed forward. Da’erba and Huo Du were shocked when they saw the explosive power that blew the entrance of the cave open; like it was blasted open with gunpowder. The two grabbed their weapons and rushed forward. Qiu Chuji and the other five masters moved aside a bit and then all of them raised their ten palms and pressed at the backs of those two. A firm press was delivered and the two were thrown four meters away.


Da’erba and Huo Du’s martial arts were of the same level as Hao Datong, though they were not as powerful as Qiu Chuji or Wang Chuyi. But they could not be defeated within one stance by them either.

[ChanceEncounter]

?

Zhen Zhibing, Li Zhichang and others were very happy and called out: “Master!” and rushed forward. Da’erba and Huo Du were shocked when they saw the explosive power that blew the entrance of the cave open; like it was blasted open with gunpowder. The two grabbed their weapons and rushed forward. Qiu Chuji and the other five masters moved aside a bit and then all of them raised their ten palms and pressed at the backs of those two. A firm press was delivered and the two were thrown four meters away.


Da’erba and Huo Du’s martial arts were of the same level as Hao Datong, though they were not as powerful as Qiu Chuji or Wang Chuyi. But they could not be defeated within one stance by them either.

5 against 2 would make them look better, as well as their synergism. I'm not sure individually QCJ is much better than Huo Du.

[WuxiaMaster]

In addition, at the Martial Art Meet, Guo Jing/Huang Rong doesn't seem confident to let Hao Da Tong take on Huo Du...

[aniking_8]

It doesn't seem right fo ZBT be stronger then other original greats and MRB to be so strong.

[flamer]

It doesn't seem right fo ZBT be stronger then other original greats and MRB to be so strong.

Why? HYS and YD conceded that they were slightly worse than ZBT at ROCH's end.

Actually I don't feel too comfortable with the ranking of DY/XZ, in the final chapter, I felt they were each a lot better.

[CC]

It doesn't seem right fo ZBT be stronger then other original greats and MRB to be so strong.

Whats wrong with MRB being so strong?

He was already capable of killing 1st Class Fighters with 1 stance when he was 15 years old.

And then there was his 80 foot multiple LDA in chapter 42.


Flamer :

I agree. I would think final chapter XZ would be ahead of TSTL/LQS. And DY was amazing with his new found palm/sabre/kicking skills which seemed to come up from nowhere. The only thing taking away the shine was their having to focus on blocking half of XF's strike each and losing the Liao Emperor.

[PJ]

Whats wrong with MRB being so strong?

He was already capable of killing 1st Class Fighters with 1 stance when he was 15 years old.

To be fair, Huangmei at the time was below 1st class. He was probably at the most a 2nd class fighter. Still impressive of 15 year old Murong Bo to "kill" a 2nd/3rd class fighter in one hit.