Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

[Western Eccentric]

can full sad YG toyed around vs 3 Qiu Qian Ren? I don't think so.
He can win, but there will be a heavy battle. 3 Qiu Qian Ren definitely extremely difficult enemies.
This isnt the case with DFBB vs RWX + XWT + LHC. DFBB's calmness is at level when someone clearly think he can't be defeated, even after analyzed the enemies strength

3 QQR of course much better than RWX + LHC + XWT + RYY especially ROCH QQR and don't forget YG only have 1 arm which make him "disadvantage" against multiple opponents except he wield sword..

[FeilongZ]

3 QQR of course much better than RWX + LHC + XWT + RYY especially ROCH QQR and don't forget YG only have 1 arm which make him "disadvantage" against multiple opponents except he wield sword..

3 QQR (level 72 each) would be a lot to handle, even with full Sad Palms.
Post-16 YG equipped with the HIS has a much higher chance.....
DFBB's 3 opponents are indeed much weaker than 3 QQR.
Therefore, post-16 YG with HIS would have a very high chance of defeating DFBB's 3 opponents in a relatively short time.

[Eastern_Heretic]

3 QQR (level 72 each) would be a lot to handle, even with full Sad Palms.
Post-16 YG equipped with the HIS has a much higher chance.....
DFBB's 3 opponents are indeed much weaker than 3 QQR.
Therefore, post-16 YG with HIS would have a very high chance of defeating DFBB's 3 opponents in a relatively short time.

Yes. This is what I mean.
If you put DFBB at slightly higher level than YG, then RWX at best is equal to QQR, and XWT & LHC is weaker by considerable margin, because DFBB can fight all of them calmly. Don't forget if pixie sword and sunflower basically is same (more or less), then DFBB fight with handicap. He doesnt have a sword, while his skill should be better when using sword.

[FeilongZ]

Yes. This is what I mean.
If you put DFBB at slightly higher level than YG, then RWX at best is equal to QQR, and XWT & LHC is weaker by considerable margin, because DFBB can fight all of them calmly. Don't forget if pixie sword and sunflower basically is same (more or less), then DFBB fight with handicap. He doesnt have a sword, while his skill should be better when using sword.

There is no way DFBB is at a higher level than post-16 YG with DGKB's legendary Heavy Iron Sword and its Great++'s ingenious techniques.
(6-year ocean wave training and repelling the South Seas waves with force of much greater than 1000 Jins/Catties, along with 9yin defensive skills that ZBT couldn't do anything when YG was in a defensive mode + great level of lightness skills).

[FeilongZ]

Yes. This is what I mean.
If you put DFBB at slightly higher level than YG, then RWX at best is equal to QQR, and XWT & LHC is weaker by considerable margin, because DFBB can fight all of them calmly. Don't forget if pixie sword and sunflower basically is same (more or less), then DFBB fight with handicap. He doesnt have a sword, while his skill should be better when using sword.

Further thoughts, post-16 YG equipped with the HIS would instantly destroy/shatter DFBB's sword once they come in contact if she chooses to use one.
Moreover, there is no way DFBB's needle would be able to withstand blow by blow against the HIS (wooden sword), which has the power to repel the strong South Seas waves (>=1,667 Jins/Catties).

[Western Eccentric]

Yes. This is what I mean.
If you put DFBB at slightly higher level than YG, then RWX at best is equal to QQR, and XWT & LHC is weaker by considerable margin, because DFBB can fight all of them calmly. Don't forget if pixie sword and sunflower basically is same (more or less), then DFBB fight with handicap. He doesnt have a sword, while his skill should be better when using sword.

I think DFBB and YG more or less equal DFBB slightly edge in qinggong and double arms while YG a bit better in terms of power especially "physical strength"..

[Western Eccentric]

Further thoughts, post-16 YG equipped with the HIS would instantly destroy/shatter DFBB's sword once they come in contact if she chooses to use one.
Moreover, there is no way DFBB's needle would be able to withstand blow by blow against the HIS (wooden sword), which has the power to repel the strong South Seas waves (>=1,667 Jins/Catties).

If YG use HIS he would lose some of his "pace" and mobility though he power "double"..

[FeilongZ]

If YG use HIS he would lose some of his "pace" and mobility though he power "double"..

YG could use the wooden sword for both agility and power.
How could DFBB withstand a direct blow by post-16 YG with the HIS if it boosts his base power 2X (double)?

[Western Eccentric]

I doubt YG or GJ or any of Greats could land their strike in DFBB..

[FeilongZ]

I doubt YG or GJ or any of Greats could land their strike in DFBB..

If DFBB duels with YG, they would not make any contacts during the fight?

Also, what is so special when LHC felt numbness in his arm when his sword made contact with DFBB's needle.
Any Great-caliber fighter would cause the same thing or more to LHC.

What you think would happen if post-16 YG's HIS makes direct contact with DFBB's needle?

[Western Eccentric]

If DFBB duels with YG, they would not make any contacts during the fight?

Also, what is so special when LHC felt numbness in his arm when his sword made contact with DFBB's needle.
Any Great-caliber fighter would cause the same thing or more to LHC.

What you think would happen if post-16 YG's HIS makes direct contact with DFBB's needle?

A seasoned pugilist always could adjust and adapt during fight so for DFBB he would try to avoid "direct contact" with YG..

[Eastern_Heretic]

I doubt YG or GJ or any of Greats could land their strike in DFBB..

DFBB is indeed in another league compared to even RWX which is considered the top tier elite during XAJH. Of course if u consider RWX level is near the greats lvl, then DFBB lvl is up to the sky.

But from my point of view, which consider RWX = FZ ≈ Priest Chongxu, while I highly doubt priest Chongxu can be far stronger than his great shifu, lets say, the strongest of 7 Wudang heroes, of couse DFBB lvl also drop down to earth, which I believe is equal to the 4 greats. DFBB's demonic speed is from their view. I believe if a great level see it, it will be just fast enough, not kind of demonic speed comnent. It's like seeing XLN has demonic speed if from Huo Tu's perspective (far weaker than XLN)

[Western Eccentric]

For me DFBB on par with GJ/YG at end-ROCH..

[EdenResident]

DFBB is indeed in another league compared to even RWX which is considered the top tier elite during XAJH. Of course if u consider RWX level is near the greats lvl, then DFBB lvl is up to the sky.

But from my point of view, which consider RWX = FZ ≈ Priest Chongxu, while I highly doubt priest Chongxu can be far stronger than his great shifu, lets say, the strongest of 7 Wudang heroes, of couse DFBB lvl also drop down to earth, which I believe is equal to the 4 greats. DFBB's demonic speed is from their view. I believe if a great level see it, it will be just fast enough, not kind of demonic speed comnent. It's like seeing XLN has demonic speed if from Huo Tu's perspective (far weaker than XLN)

Fang Zheng has mastered YJJ, a Great-level art. He's at worst LOCH Greats. RWX is therefore, at worst, equal to QQR. I don't see anyone from the Condor trilogy toying with QQR and two more fighters of LHC and XWT caliber.

DFBB is very strong. It's not just the fact that he beat RWX, LHC, XWT, all 65-72 level fighters. It's the fact that he absolutely toyed with them. He was never in any danger during the fight. And I think of all people in Jin Yong's universe, LHC would be the best judger of speed because he himself also has incredible speed.

[FeilongZ]

Fang Zheng has mastered YJJ, a Great-level art. He's at worst LOCH Greats. RWX is therefore, at worst, equal to QQR. I don't see anyone from the Condor trilogy toying with QQR and two more fighters of LHC and XWT caliber.

DFBB is very strong. It's not just the fact that he beat RWX, LHC, XWT, all 65-72 level fighters. It's the fact that he absolutely toyed with them. He was never in any danger during the fight. And I think of all people in Jin Yong's universe, LHC would be the best judger of speed because he himself also has incredible speed.

vs post-16 YG equipped with the HIS/Sad Palms:

1. LHC: < or = 3 stances
1st direct contact with the HIS, LHC's sword would immediately be broken and the enormous force result in severe internal/bodily injury or death.

2. XWT: same result as with LHC.

3. RWX: no need to use the HIS since he is most likely not armed with a weapon.
YG unleashes Sad Palms and quickly overwhelm him with profound, weird techniques.

[Eastern_Heretic]

Fang Zheng has mastered YJJ, a Great-level art. He's at worst LOCH Greats. RWX is therefore, at worst, equal to QQR. I don't see anyone from the Condor trilogy toying with QQR and two more fighters of LHC and XWT caliber.

DFBB is very strong. It's not just the fact that he beat RWX, LHC, XWT, all 65-72 level fighters. It's the fact that he absolutely toyed with them. He was never in any danger during the fight. And I think of all people in Jin Yong's universe, LHC would be the best judger of speed because he himself also has incredible speed.

So far in JY universe, I haven't seen any orthodox sect student can reach much higher level than the teacher. You can see example in ZSF - Wudang heroes, Wang Chong Yang - 7 Quanzhen priests. All is downgrade. These come along with overall martial art degradation, from northern song era to qing era. Then judging from strongest of wudang heroes power level, I highly don't agree priest Chongxu is near greats level. If Chongxu isn't that high, of course FX and RWX is not that high too

[Eastern_Heretic]

So far in JY universe, I haven't seen any orthodox sect student can reach much higher level than the teacher. You can see example in ZSF - Wudang heroes, Wang Chong Yang - 7 Quanzhen priests. All is downgrade. These come along with overall martial art degradation, from northern song era to qing era. Then judging from strongest of wudang heroes power level, I highly don't agree priest Chongxu is near greats level. If Chongxu isn't that high, of course FX and RWX is not that high too

And in JY universe, Inner energy always more important than swordmanship. U can have the most complicated, beautifully swordplay, but if ur inner energy is lacking, one brute qi force from YG will knock you down. I bet ZWJ even he only studied taichi sword in less than half hour, he can knock Chongxu easily because of his monsterous inner energy lvl

[Ken Cheng]

So far in JY universe, I haven't seen any orthodox sect student can reach much higher level than the teacher. You can see example in ZSF - Wudang heroes, Wang Chong Yang - 7 Quanzhen priests. All is downgrade. These come along with overall martial art degradation, from northern song era to qing era. Then judging from strongest of wudang heroes power level, I highly don't agree priest Chongxu is near greats level. If Chongxu isn't that high, of course FX and RWX is not that high too

Well...Kiu Fung surpassed all of his Beggar's Union and Shaolin teachers. Gwok Jing arguably surpassed North Beggar Hung 7 Gung. Yeung Gor surpassed anybody before him from the Cheun Jen Sect and Ancient Tomb Sect except perhaps Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung and Lam Chiu Ying (jury's out on that one because Jin Yong never really wanted to take the # 1 position away from Wong Chung Yeung, and yet kind of did by introducing Lam Chiu Ying). Ling Wu Chung also surpassed his teacher Ngok But Kwun. Now what do all of these guys have in common? Main Protagonist Privilege. It doesn't work for everybody, but main protagonists will often accomplish this feat.

[Western Eccentric]

Well...Kiu Fung surpassed all of his Beggar's Union and Shaolin teachers. Gwok Jing arguably surpassed North Beggar Hung 7 Gung. Yeung Gor surpassed anybody before him from the Cheun Jen Sect and Ancient Tomb Sect except perhaps Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung and Lam Chiu Ying (jury's out on that one because Jin Yong never really wanted to take the # 1 position away from Wong Chung Yeung, and yet kind of did by introducing Lam Chiu Ying). Ling Wu Chung also surpassed his teacher Ngok But Kwun. Now what do all of these guys have in common? Main Protagonist Privilege. It doesn't work for everybody, but main protagonists will often accomplish this feat.

It's true they all surpassing their previous generation but not by pure martial arts but with "combine" martial arts except maybe for XF which surpassing his teacher in terms of pure sect skill while the other like GJ or YG surpassing their master via "multiple" skill (i.e 9 Yin and Dugu Qiubai method kungfu)..

[EdenResident]

And in JY universe, Inner energy always more important than swordmanship. U can have the most complicated, beautifully swordplay, but if ur inner energy is lacking, one brute qi force from YG will knock you down. I bet ZWJ even he only studied taichi sword in less than half hour, he can knock Chongxu easily because of his monsterous inner energy lvl

But why judge FZ by the proxy of CX when we can judge him directly? YJJ is a Great level art, one of the top 3 arts of Shaolin even. JMZ, a Great himself, tried to learn YJJ because he thought it would boost his internals. And he failed and almost fire-deviated to his death. That by itself shows that YJJ is on par with many other internal manuals like 9Yin or 9Yang.

Fang Zheng mastered YJJ and he was the only Shaolin monk that accomplished this (though Sweeper could have as well). Now, FZ's external arts maybe lacking but they wouldn't be a complete zero like Jue Yuan. So just the fact that his palm attacks are powered by YJJ already puts FZ at Great level. Compared to the LOCH Greats, FZ would have better internals than all of them.